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The Matrix and Innocent People

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The Matrix and Innocent People

Old 09-07-05, 02:35 AM
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The Matrix and Innocent People

Have you noticed that in the Matrix series, our so-called heroes dash around the world of Matrix, randomly attacking and murdering hundreds of innocent people? Anyone is fair game, from security guards to street cops, SWAT men to Army soldiers, anyone can be killed by the "heroes" with total impunity and without fear of reprisals. And it's not just military and law enforcement personnel; innocent civies are taken out as well, wether they are hapless bystanders possed by Agents, freeway commuters or office workers the "heroes" do not care about the number innocent people that get cut down.

Do you think the Matrix movie series lacks proper morality?
Old 09-07-05, 03:08 AM
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I agree. I hope Neo gets killed in a sequel.
Old 09-07-05, 04:00 AM
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Morality? I'm sorry, but I don't look towards films to fill me with Moral lessons.
Old 09-07-05, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
Morality? I'm sorry, but I don't look towards films to fill me with Moral lessons.
Then where else are you going to learn them? Television is our last great teacher.
Old 09-07-05, 05:37 AM
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I weap for a society that can't decide for itself that murder is wrong. The basic idea that I do not want to be killed, thus I do not kill someone else.
Old 09-07-05, 05:58 AM
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As Morpheus said:

The matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.

(...)

[Agents] can move in and out of any software still hard wired to their system. That means that anyone we haven't unplugged is potentially an agent.
Old 09-07-05, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
Morality? I'm sorry, but I don't look towards films to fill me with Moral lessons.
Perhaps apropos to nothing, but why do you take that attitude? Many of my favorite films are full of moral lessons and commentaries - La Regle du Jeu, Au Hazard Balthusar, Offtet, etc.
Old 09-07-05, 11:52 AM
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Yep just like the guys in Star Trek who wear red uniforms
Old 09-07-05, 12:05 PM
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Imagine your this person: You are Frank Miller, a 62 year old verteran that has recently retired from four decades of dedicated service in the US Marine Corps., but you still need cash to support your sickly wife and help your sons with their family allowences so you get employed as a security guard at a NSA building in the commercial district. You man the X-Ray machines, sign in governement employees and make sure the NSA office staff have a safe and productive day.

It is the midafternoon and it's a slow day, you and three other security officers are minding your own business at the X-Ray machine and then all of sudden in saunters through the door a suspicious looking guy, sporting a long black trechcoat and carrying a black duffle bag.

The man passes through the security gate and before anyone can react your trusted collegue, Hendrix, flies across the hallway, his rib cage snapped in two. He is dead before he impacts on the marble floor. The man in the trench coat then snatches out two MP-5 automatic pistols and then proceeds to mow down two more of your co-workers; Tompson a rookie transferred from a shopping mall and Henderson a former NYPD officer. These two men are riddled with bullets before they have a chance to draw their side arms.

You leap for your life behind a marble piller, cowering away from your attacker. You've wet your standard issue khaki pants, clutching your pistol in one hand and a walkie talkie in the other. Your sweating heavily, begging for back up, hoping you'd live through this. Then suddenly another assasin strolls through the X-Ray gate; a young women in a black PVC trenchcoat, before you react to this new threat, the woman then empties an entire clip from her UZI 9mm pistol into your soft unprotected torso, you die instantly.

If you see the actions of the "heroes" from the point of view of their victims, then you will see the amount of death and suffering the Zionist Rebels inflict upon innocent people.

Last edited by Cancer Man; 09-07-05 at 12:09 PM.
Old 09-07-05, 12:08 PM
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With that eye for detail you should spend your time writing scripts.
Old 09-07-05, 12:58 PM
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Morpheus is the real enemy. He wants us to leave our wonderful computer-generated world filled with a vast variety of possibilies to go to some dank dark place with shitty raves as the only form of entertainment and tasteless slop for food. Gimme that blue pill, bitch.
Old 09-07-05, 01:51 PM
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Ignorance is bliss.
Old 09-07-05, 02:13 PM
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You could make this same argument about any action movie with big body counts. Was Arnold Schwartzenegger wrong to kill all those rebels in the jungle in Predator? They were fighting for what they believed in. Was he wrong to kill all those guys in Commando? They were just doing the job they were hired for. Was Rambo wrong to kill all those Vietnamese? And on and on and on....
Old 09-07-05, 02:20 PM
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Bah, the ultimate good is the point. Liberate the people from the system, collaterral damage happens. Besides, as was pointed out before, you can find this "flaw" in a large number of action films. Not just human life, but property damage. Don't they care about all those things they destroyed? At least in The Matrix its clearly stated that those still in the system can still be the enemy.
Old 09-07-05, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
Morality? I'm sorry, but I don't look towards films to fill me with Moral lessons.
I totally agree, If you don't know the difference between real/fantasy and right/wrong then you probably shouldn't be going to movies that would possibly cause you to emulate it.
Old 09-07-05, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Cancer Man
If you see the actions of the "heroes" from the point of view of their victims, then you will see the amount of death and suffering the Zionist Rebels inflict upon innocent people.
But are they really innocent? They are, after all, providing the enemy with it's power source, whether they are aware of it or not.
Old 09-07-05, 04:31 PM
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It wasn't a documentary

Movies are a form of escape. To see fantsatic and imagainry images come to life. To be entertained. That's the point of going to a movie, to buy your ticket and forget the world outside.

but also on the commentary they say that it was a computer program in the security building, not people. Their lying, but that's what they say.
Old 09-07-05, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lukewarmwater
Movies are a form of escape. To see fantsatic and imagainry images come to life. To be entertained. That's the point of going to a movie, to buy your ticket and forget the world outside.
That's one point of going to movies. Just because it's your point doesn't mean everyone shares that feeling. Personally, I hate most movies that are little more than escapist entertainment.
Old 09-07-05, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cancer Man
Imagine your this person: You are Frank Miller, a 62 year old verteran that has recently retired from four decades of dedicated service in the US Marine Corps., but you still need cash to support your sickly wife and help your sons with their family allowences so you get employed as a security guard at a NSA building in the commercial district. You man the X-Ray machines, sign in governement employees and make sure the NSA office staff have a safe and productive day.

It is the midafternoon and it's a slow day, you and three other security officers are minding your own business at the X-Ray machine and then all of sudden in saunters through the door a suspicious looking guy, sporting a long black trechcoat and carrying a black duffle bag.

The man passes through the security gate and before anyone can react your trusted collegue, Hendrix, flies across the hallway, his rib cage snapped in two. He is dead before he impacts on the marble floor. The man in the trench coat then snatches out two MP-5 automatic pistols and then proceeds to mow down two more of your co-workers; Tompson a rookie transferred from a shopping mall and Henderson a former NYPD officer. These two men are riddled with bullets before they have a chance to draw their side arms.

You leap for your life behind a marble piller, cowering away from your attacker. You've wet your standard issue khaki pants, clutching your pistol in one hand and a walkie talkie in the other. Your sweating heavily, begging for back up, hoping you'd live through this. Then suddenly another assasin strolls through the X-Ray gate; a young women in a black PVC trenchcoat, before you react to this new threat, the woman then empties an entire clip from her UZI 9mm pistol into your soft unprotected torso, you die instantly.

If you see the actions of the "heroes" from the point of view of their victims, then you will see the amount of death and suffering the Zionist Rebels inflict upon innocent people.
nice, but I have to nitpick
an UZI and MP5 are submachine guns, not pistols

and don't get me started on the flaw a little later in that scene where the Scorpions are dumping out the wrong caliber brass

Last edited by mikehunt; 09-07-05 at 11:33 PM.
Old 09-08-05, 12:54 AM
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In all movies the world revolves around the hero. The point of view is manipulated to make the audience feel the way the director wants.

Take Star Wars for example, Luke Skywalker and his band of rebels were nothing more than a group of terrorists trying to bring down "the man".
Old 09-08-05, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by lukewarmwater
Movies are a form of escape. To see fantsatic and imagainry images come to life. To be entertained. That's the point of going to a movie, to buy your ticket and forget the world outside.
escapist entertainment is the exact garbage i avoid. for me, the point of going to the cinema is to see how the film applies to me and, quite often, "the world outside".
Old 09-08-05, 02:44 AM
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But do you go to a film for a moral lesson? More than likely you already subscribe to the moral lessons agree with the moral stance that the film takes.

I don't ever recall someone changing the entire belief system they subscribe to because of a film. This is why Fahrenheit 9/11 has those who love it and those who hated it from the get go. It didn't change someone's Pro war stance to anti-war.

If all it takes is two hours to change a position you hold in your life, You are either a weak minded person or your belief in that stance was never really strong to begin with. Thus, I do not go to a movie to get my set of morals. The Matrix will not make me feel that killing is good.
Old 09-08-05, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
But do you go to a film for a moral lesson?
i can't say i seek them out explicitly. but yes, i'm open to a moral lesson. if a film happens to explore morality, i may learn something or consider an aspect to it that i hadn't been aware of before.

Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
I don't ever recall someone changing the entire belief system they subscribe to because of a film. This is why Fahrenheit 9/11 has those who love it and those who hated it from the get go. It didn't change someone's Pro war stance to anti-war.
thinking in terms of absolutes isn't going to help you see anything. it's unlikely that a film will swing someone's view to its polar opposite. but it can raise one's level of awareness which may very well serve as a catalyst of sorts.

Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
If all it takes is two hours to change a position you hold in your life, You are either a weak minded person or your belief in that stance was never really strong to begin with.
it's happened to me many times. and not because i'm weak-willed, but because i recognize that i can't know the truth of everything. so i'm open-minded to particular truths shown to me by a number of filmmakers who've earned my trust and respect.

Last edited by Cygnet74; 09-08-05 at 03:22 AM.
Old 09-08-05, 05:34 AM
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I'm speaking on the regards of the basics of this thread. Which is to say.. "Killing is ok towards the innocent" which I doubt is making any impact on the moral fiber of a person.

That is the basic good and bad logic of things here. Something that if the foundation of which is shaken with a simple movie, you really shouldn't be watching films at all.
Old 09-08-05, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Cygnet74
i can't say i seek them out explicitly. but yes, i'm open to a moral lesson. if a film happens to explore morality, i may learn something or consider an aspect to it that i hadn't been aware of before.

thinking in terms of absolutes isn't going to help you see anything. it's unlikely that a film will swing someone's view to its polar opposite. but it can raise one's level of awareness which may very well serve as a catalyst of sorts.

it's happened to me many times. and not because i'm weak-willed, but because i recognize that i can't know the truth of everything. so i'm open-minded to particular truths shown to me by a number of filmmakers who've earned my trust and respect.

Good post Cygnet. I agree that I am open to learning more about myself when watching movies. Some movies just move you to the point where you question your entire lifestyle.

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