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What made the Emperor think Luke would turn to the dark side?

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What made the Emperor think Luke would turn to the dark side?

Old 06-22-05, 02:43 AM
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Li
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What made the Emperor think Luke would turn to the dark side?

What made the Emperor think Luke would turn to the dark side? When recruiting Anakin he used his fear of losing his wife. He used his distrust in the Jedi. But what motivation did he give Luke? “Look, I’m killing all of your friends! You might was well turn to the dark side and become my apprentice, since everyone you know and love will be dead and all…” Did he really think that was going to persuade him? He literally wanted Luke to hate him. Is that any way to get someone to serve you?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Last edited by Li; 06-22-05 at 03:03 AM.
Old 06-22-05, 03:18 AM
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You really ask a lot of silly questions. But hey, why not. abuse the sub forum while it last.

Anyhow, I think the main thing that the emperor was doing was making luke give into his anger and hate. Then he would turn to the dark side. Simple as that.

Besides that, Luke wore enough black to fit in with the sith.
Old 06-22-05, 03:44 AM
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I always got the feeling in the OT that turning to the darkside wasn't supposed to be as much of a choice as it is portrayed to be in the PT. I figured the Emperor was goading Luke, so that when he finally did give in to the darkside... BAM! He's a Sith, no going back.

Of course that's only IMO
Old 06-22-05, 10:11 AM
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Anakin had reason to submit to fear, I guess he needed to induce it more for Luke. Also, he might have suspected Vader wanted to turn on him so he needed Luke ASAP.
Old 06-22-05, 10:21 AM
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Probably because Anakin turned on a dime. Can you blame the Emperor for thinking Luke would be just as big of a pushover?
Old 06-22-05, 12:44 PM
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I think it's because Palpatine wasn't at the top of his game when it came to recruiting new apprentices. In a 12 year span he got 3. When it came time to get Luke to join him, it had been 20 some years since he made Luke's daddy his bitch. Of course he was gonna fail, his skills were rusty.
Old 06-22-05, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Jackskeleton
You really ask a lot of silly questions. But hey, why not. abuse the sub forum while it last.
I've asked two questions in a week’s time and neither of them have been silly. Both are completely legitimate and things that bothered me after re-watching the OT. If you don't want to contribute, then don't.

Last edited by Li; 06-22-05 at 01:03 PM.
Old 06-22-05, 12:54 PM
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His overconfidence was his greatest weakness.
Old 06-22-05, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by JTH182
I always got the feeling in the OT that turning to the darkside wasn't supposed to be as much of a choice as it is portrayed to be in the PT. I figured the Emperor was goading Luke, so that when he finally did give in to the darkside... BAM! He's a Sith, no going back.

Of course that's only IMO
I agree, that's the impression the OT gives off. Turning is as easy as giving into your hate. But it doesn't seem anywhere near as easy in the PT. It took a lot more manipulation.

I'm not saying there is an answer, I'm more saying that it seems like a flaw in the story. The Emperor knows how to turn someone in the PT, but he doesn't show that at all in the OT. The last thing he wanted in the PT was for Anakin to hate him.

Last edited by Li; 06-22-05 at 01:03 PM.
Old 06-22-05, 02:58 PM
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The Emperor was in a much bigger position of power later in the OT, so he thought Luke would turn more easily.

Perhaps the Emperor didn't know Luke would care about Leiah?
Old 06-22-05, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bus
The Emperor was in a much bigger position of power later in the OT, so he thought Luke would turn more easily.

Perhaps the Emperor didn't know Luke would care about Leiah?
I agree that he was in a much better position to say whatever he wanted. He had the freedom to piss Luke off as he had Vader there to protect him. Even with that considered, his technique is just so radically different from what he used with Anakin. He gained Anakin's trust, and that is what allowed Anakin to turn and serve him.

It just doesn't make any sense when you consider how the Emperor turned Anakin. If I wanted someone to serve me I wouldn't want them want to kill me. That was obviously what he wanted.
Old 06-22-05, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Li
I agree that he was in a much better position to say whatever he wanted. He had the freedom to piss Luke off as he had Vader there to protect him. Even with that considered, his technique is just so radically different from what he used with Anakin. He gained Anakin's trust, and that is what allowed Anakin to turn and serve him.

It just doesn't make any sense when you consider how the Emperor turned Anakin. If I wanted someone to serve me I wouldn't want them want to kill me. That was obviously what he wanted.
He was well aware that Luke was no match for him, even in his older age. He also had Vader right over his shoulder.
Old 06-23-05, 02:50 PM
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He was old when he began his training and wasn't a fully trained jedi, thus he assumed he could manipulate him easily.

Not to mention he manipulated his father very easily, so maybe he figured the nut didn't fall far from the tree.
Old 06-23-05, 04:20 PM
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He had to use a different style to seduce Luke since there was no way to gain his trust...from early on Luke has known the Emperor to be pure evil. The motivation for Anakin's and Luke's seduction is the same...it is the fear of loss. For Anakin it is the loss of Padme, and for Luke the loss of Leia to the dark side.
Old 06-23-05, 10:45 PM
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Given the family history, I guess he thought it would be easy.
Old 06-23-05, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by KnightLerxst
He had to use a different style to seduce Luke since there was no way to gain his trust...from early on Luke has known the Emperor to be pure evil. The motivation for Anakin's and Luke's seduction is the same...it is the fear of loss. For Anakin it is the loss of Padme, and for Luke the loss of Leia to the dark side.
Yes, but with Anakin it was "if you want to save her from dieing, you need to turn to the dark side".

For Luke it was "there all going to DIE no matter what you do! So you might as well turn to the dark side and serve me!"

If he had used Leia, and said "if you don't serve me Leia will die..." then I could understand, but he didn't give Luke an ultimatum at all.

The PT makes it appear as though those who turn to the dark side have a choice! If they do have a choice, what the hell made the Emperor think Luke would CHOOSE to serve him? He gave him absolutely no reason to do so. That’s what doesn’t make sense.


Does anyone deny that’s the impression the PT gives off?

Last edited by Li; 06-23-05 at 11:45 PM.
Old 06-24-05, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Li
Ybut he didn't give Luke an ultimatum at all.
Actually he did. "If you will not turn, then perhaps she will."

The only way to seduce Luke was to use his anger, that is what flips the switch and causes Luke to go bezerk on Vader.

The techniques for seducing Anakin and Vader had to be different, he couldn't really give him that whole "we can discover the power to save people together" crap cause Vader would have called bullshit in his attempt to seduce Luke.

The Emperor also had 20 years of being unstoppable to fuel his overconfidence...he probably figured Luke would be a pushover because he did not have the same Jedi training that Anakin had.

The motivations on turning towards the darkside do seem to be somewhat different in the PT and the OT...I will give you that. In the PT it seems that the seduction revolves around using the dark side powers for a greater purpose...in the OT it revolves around evil for the sake of being evil.
Old 06-24-05, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by KnightLerxst
Actually he did. "If you will not turn, then perhaps she will."
True. But that was Vader who said that, not Palpatine.
Old 06-26-05, 02:34 AM
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like father, like son ?
Old 07-01-05, 04:40 PM
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Although I don't think this message was well-conveyed in ROTJ, I got the impression that Luke's "seduction" was based on showing him how powerful he became whenever he gave into his anger. Vader goaded him into "giving in" during their first duel in TESB, and the Emperor showed him first-hand when he said, "Your hate has made you powerful."

The best thing I can come up with was that Luke was being faced with a choice to become an even more powerful Jedi by giving into his hate. (Yoda alluded to this when he said the darkside was "Quicker. Easier. More seductive." Count Dooku showed the blissful arrogance these hate-fuelled powers gave a Sith when he proudly proclaimed he was now more powerful than any Jedi.)

So it was sort of a temptation for ultimate power. Dooku couldn't resist it, but Luke could. Personally, I think Episode III would have been a better film if Anakin had given into the darkside out of a lust for power. Being naive and simply getting tricked by Palpatine was rather lame.
Old 07-01-05, 07:33 PM
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Anyhow, I think the main thing that the emperor was doing was making luke give into his anger and hate. Then he would turn to the dark side. Simple as that.

Besides that, Luke wore enough black to fit in with the sith.
But what Anakin wore in ROTS looked black to me before he ever completely turned dark. How do you know it wasnt one of Luke's father's?(Unlikely but someone mentioned it and i thought it was an interesting thought) Plus, the Jedi glory days are gone, Luke had to take what he could find.

I also felt the fact that his father was taken by the darkside might make him angry enough to fall into the same path, I mean a chance to rule next to your father and take back the galaxy can be kind of appealling if you can take out the guy responsible for the destruction in the process...

Last edited by yoda1; 07-01-05 at 07:36 PM.

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