I have a question about "Se7en," (spoilers).
06-08-05 | 07:51 PM
#26
I don't think he considered the other sins to be murder as he didn't see himself as doing anything wrong. He made his point known that they were all guilty and he was doing the lord's work.
IMO her being innocent is the point to John Doe. That is his real crime and he must be dealt with. Now Mills turning into wrath is one of the points of the movie. How quickly figures of "order" can become "disorder".
JOHN DOE
You wouldn't because you know there are
consequences. It's in those eyes of yours,
though... nothing wrong with a man taking
pleasure in his work.
(pause, shakes his head)
I won't deny my own personal desire to turn
each sin against the sinner. I only took
their sins to logical conclusions.
MILLS
You only killed a bunch of innocent people
so you could get your rocks off. That's
all.
JOHN DOE
Innocent? Is that supposed to be funny?
Look at the people I killed. An obese man,
a disgusting man who could barely stand
up... who if you saw him on the street,
you'd point so your friends could mock him
along with you. Who if you saw him while
you were eating, you wouldn't be able to
finish your meal. After him I picked the
lawyer. And, you both must have been
secretly thanking me for that one. This
was a man who dedicated his life to making
money by lying with every breath he could
muster... to keeping rapists and murderers
on the streets.
MILLS
Murderers?
JOHN DOE
(ignoring)
A woman...
MILLS
Murderers like you?
JOHN DOE
(ignoring, louder)
A woman... so ugly on the inside that she
couldn't bare to go on living if she
couldn't be beautiful on the outside. A
drug dealer... a drug dealing pederast,
actually.
(laughs at that one)
And, don't forget the disease spreading
whore. Only in a world this shitty could
you even try to say these were innocent
people and keep a straight face.
(getting worked up)
That's the point. You see a deadly sin on
almost every street corner, and in every
home, literally. And we tolerate it.
Because it's common, it seems trivial, and
we tolerate, all day long, morning, noon
and night. Not anymore. I'm setting the
example, and it's going to be puzzled over
and studied and followed, from now on.
IMO her being innocent is the point to John Doe. That is his real crime and he must be dealt with. Now Mills turning into wrath is one of the points of the movie. How quickly figures of "order" can become "disorder".
JOHN DOE
You wouldn't because you know there are
consequences. It's in those eyes of yours,
though... nothing wrong with a man taking
pleasure in his work.
(pause, shakes his head)
I won't deny my own personal desire to turn
each sin against the sinner. I only took
their sins to logical conclusions.
MILLS
You only killed a bunch of innocent people
so you could get your rocks off. That's
all.
JOHN DOE
Innocent? Is that supposed to be funny?
Look at the people I killed. An obese man,
a disgusting man who could barely stand
up... who if you saw him on the street,
you'd point so your friends could mock him
along with you. Who if you saw him while
you were eating, you wouldn't be able to
finish your meal. After him I picked the
lawyer. And, you both must have been
secretly thanking me for that one. This
was a man who dedicated his life to making
money by lying with every breath he could
muster... to keeping rapists and murderers
on the streets.
MILLS
Murderers?
JOHN DOE
(ignoring)
A woman...
MILLS
Murderers like you?
JOHN DOE
(ignoring, louder)
A woman... so ugly on the inside that she
couldn't bare to go on living if she
couldn't be beautiful on the outside. A
drug dealer... a drug dealing pederast,
actually.
(laughs at that one)
And, don't forget the disease spreading
whore. Only in a world this shitty could
you even try to say these were innocent
people and keep a straight face.
(getting worked up)
That's the point. You see a deadly sin on
almost every street corner, and in every
home, literally. And we tolerate it.
Because it's common, it seems trivial, and
we tolerate, all day long, morning, noon
and night. Not anymore. I'm setting the
example, and it's going to be puzzled over
and studied and followed, from now on.
06-09-05 | 02:35 AM
#29
DVD Talk Legend
John Doe did complete his masterpiece, and seven people died...one for each deadly sin.
1. Gluttony - the fat man
2. Greed - the lawyer
3. Sloth - the "zombie" guy on the bed in the apartment (didn't die in the movie, but it was fairly well implied he would)
4. Pride - the model
5. Lust - the prostitute
6. Envy - Mills' wife, the victim of John Doe's envy
7. Wrath - John Doe himself, the victim of Mills' wrath
Mills' wife was an innocent, but John Doe himself was not. That was part of his plan. He killed those that deserved it (in his eyes), and when he finally killed someone who did not, he himself had to become the final victim of the final sin. Mission accomplished.
1. Gluttony - the fat man
2. Greed - the lawyer
3. Sloth - the "zombie" guy on the bed in the apartment (didn't die in the movie, but it was fairly well implied he would)
4. Pride - the model
5. Lust - the prostitute
6. Envy - Mills' wife, the victim of John Doe's envy
7. Wrath - John Doe himself, the victim of Mills' wrath
Mills' wife was an innocent, but John Doe himself was not. That was part of his plan. He killed those that deserved it (in his eyes), and when he finally killed someone who did not, he himself had to become the final victim of the final sin. Mission accomplished.
Last edited by The_Infidel; 06-09-05 at 02:39 AM.
