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ok, saw RotK again... still prefer TTT...

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ok, saw RotK again... still prefer TTT...

Old 02-11-04, 08:40 PM
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ok, saw RotK again... still prefer TTT...

am I the only one? I saw RotK the first time, and it was kinda ruined by idiots in the theater... so I went a second time. This time it was just me and about 5 other peeps. Nice and quiet.

At any rate, having sat through it twice now, I think TTT is the superior film. Mainly because...

1) I dont think Denethor's motivations were explored enough. People seem to have the "umm... wtf is he doing?" response when he is gonna burn himself/faramir alive. The theatrical cut just doesn't give you enough info about him to find that act very logical/believable.

2) the eagles. Its fine that they were in the film, but there should have been some sort of lead-in or mention of them in RotK to avoid the "ummm, why are those big birds here all the sudden?" response.

3) lots of stuff in the middle hour (or so) of the film seems sort of rushed and squeezed in. I know PJ was trying to get the film down to a theater-digestable length, and considering how much material he had to work with he did a good job... but I still thought it felt a bit rushed.

4) I dunno if it was the cinematography, or the writing, or the actors performances or what... but for some reason the build-up for the end sequences of TTT made me feel like there was absolutely no hope left for men in middle earth. That it was all over, that evil would triumph over good.... and that made the "ending" in TTT that much more triumphant and amazing. RotK didn't do the set-up part as well... I just felt like yeah the odds were against them, but they'd "pull it out" in the end... which, when they do, made it much less exciting, surprising etc.

5) much less humor. I only actually laughed one time during the entire run of RotK..."that still only counts as one!"... but in the TTT there were lots of appropriate comic moments. I guess, the comedy in TTT actually compliments the dire-nature of the film rather than detract from it.

6) the ending. I thought the fade to black before the eagles save sam/frodo was a bad idea. Other than that it was ok... but info on what happens to the rest of the fellowship (gimli/legolas) would have been nice. Don't understand why that couldnt have been fit in there considering the ending was like 15 mins long. I could have done without the whole bed scene too.

Im sure there were other things that made TTT better to me, those are the big 6 that I can think of tho. Its worth noting that I think several of these will be full addressed in the extended cut of the RotK... but theaterical vs theatrical, I prefer TTT. What do you guys think?

j
Old 02-11-04, 09:13 PM
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I think you had to watch the Extended Version of TTT to understand some of the things of this movie.

Plus remember the other two movies tie this one in together......


ROTK is far superior
Old 02-11-04, 09:50 PM
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Re: ok, saw RotK again... still prefer TTT...

1) I dont think Denethor's motivations were explored enough.

I hope the EE of ROTK gives a little more depth to Denethor. Watching the EE of TTT helps somewhat. Denethor was quite odd in ROTK.



2) the eagles. Its fine that they were in the film, but there should have been some sort of lead-in or mention of them in RotK to avoid the "ummm, why are those big birds here all the sudden?" response.

They just sort of show up in the book, too, although there is more general knowledge of them, as Gandalf talks about how the rescued him not only from Orthanc, but after his fight with the Balrog as well.



3) lots of stuff in the middle hour (or so) of the film seems sort of rushed and squeezed in.

I thought it was too rushed in the third act when they set forth for the black gate and when Frodo & Sam trekked across Mordor. The EE should fill these areas in.



4) I dunno if it was the cinematography, or the writing, or the actors performances or what... but for some reason the build-up for the end sequences of TTT made me feel like there was absolutely no hope left for men in middle earth.

I thought things felt pretty hopeless before the seige of Gondor and the Battle of Pelinor Fields. The Rohirrim knew this would be their last battle, and the king pumped them up for certain death.


5) much less humor.

I thought there was too much humor in TTT (most of it unnecessarily at the expense of Gimli). It's fine to have scenes like Merry & Pippin with the fireworks at Bilbo's party, but the changing of Gimli into comic relief was a mistake.



6) the ending. I thought the fade to black before the eagles save sam/frodo was a bad idea. Other than that it was ok... but info on what happens to the rest of the fellowship (gimli/legolas) would have been nice. Don't understand why that couldnt have been fit in there considering the ending was like 15 mins long. I could have done without the whole bed scene too.

The following things bothered me about the ending:

The pillow fight.

Elrond cracking a smile when Aragorn and Arwen kissed. Totally out of character.

Merry and Pippin being honored with Sam and Frodo in the "You bow to no one" scene. They should have been performing their roles as squires to the lords of Rohan and Gondor. Picky, I know, treating M&P like ringbearers is a little silly.
Old 02-12-04, 12:16 AM
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Re: Re: ok, saw RotK again... still prefer TTT...

Originally posted by Jason

Merry and Pippin being honored with Sam and Frodo in the "You bow to no one" scene. They should have been performing their roles as squires to the lords of Rohan and Gondor. Picky, I know, treating M&P like ringbearers is a little silly.
I think the fact that Merry and Pippin left the Shire and fought as hard as they did, both for Gondor and Rohan, AND incited the trees/ents to fight makes them as deserving as Sam and Frodo.

As for The Two Towers, I actually agree that the build-up to Helm's Deep raises the stakes higher than at Minas Tirith. But Helm's Deep was also the first big battle in the films, and there were only, what 500 fighting men before the elves arrive, most of them not fit for battle? So yeah, Helm's Deep WAS more dire than Minas Tirith.

And even though the EE of The Two Towers improves the film by quite a bit, I still think it's the weakest of the three. Probably the fact that Shelob got thrown into ROTK. I guess Jackson wanted to make TTT more about the evolution of Aragorn as a leader, and ROTK more about Frodo and Sam, which is fine, but at the same time, The Two Towers feels a little...less than the other two.
Old 02-12-04, 01:18 AM
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I think ROTK is the better movie although I can see reasons why any of the movies could be the best.

I would wait for the EE since that is the final version of the movie
Old 02-12-04, 06:20 PM
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Re: Re: ok, saw RotK again... still prefer TTT...

Originally posted by Jason
They just sort of show up in the book, too, although there is more general knowledge of them, as Gandalf talks about how the rescued him not only from Orthanc, but after his fight with the Balrog as well.
they also show up to save people A LOT in the Sil. they are servants of the Vala (god) of air, wind, who is the king of all the Valar.

I thought things felt pretty hopeless before the seige of Gondor and the Battle of Pelinor Fields. The Rohirrim knew this would be their last battle, and the king pumped them up for certain death.

I thought there was too much humor in TTT (most of it unnecessarily at the expense of Gimli). It's fine to have scenes like Merry & Pippin with the fireworks at Bilbo's party, but the changing of Gimli into comic relief was a mistake.

The following things bothered me about the ending:

The pillow fight.


i agree with all the above.
Old 02-12-04, 08:57 PM
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I think you need to see the EE of ROTK - me too.

Eagles: the lead in is from the first movie - Gandalf is rescued by the lord of the eagles and the prelude is a moth - the same happens in ROTk.

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