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Why did they forge the Great Rings

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Why did they forge the Great Rings

Old 01-22-04, 01:22 PM
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Why did they forge the Great Rings

So I dont know if it is explained in the books...I havnt read them in a while but my question is: Why did they make the great rings int he first place (nine for the race of men, three for the elves, seven for the dwarves whatever)....What purpose did they serve and what did they hope to accomplish with the rings?
Old 01-22-04, 01:36 PM
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Sauron made them all, and gave them out and secretly made the one ring to control them all.

He basically tricked them.

It's explained in the opening of the Fellowship movie. The most relevant line is "they were all of them deceived."
Old 01-22-04, 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Josh Hinkle
Sauron made them all, and gave them out and secretly made the one ring to control them all.

He basically tricked them.

It's explained in the opening of the Fellowship movie. The most relevant line is "they were all of them deceived."
Okay well i know that part in the beginning of fellowship...but why did he make the rings...why not make one ring and one ring only
Old 01-22-04, 02:48 PM
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just a guess, but it seems to me that the lesser rings had some power and that made the various races leaders want them... but because they are made by the dark lord I would think that they have some corrupting influence...making them easier for sauron and his one ring to defeat them. Also, by giving out such apparent "gifts" he prolly endeared himself to the various races which might make it easier for him/mordor to pick the races off one by one.

j
Old 01-22-04, 03:16 PM
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Sauron did not forge all of the Rings of Power. The Elven smiths in Eregion did, in part under his guidance and instruction. They made them because they were convinced that they could be used to preserve and enhance life and beauty in Middle-earth, and to heal the wounds it had received during the wars of the First Age. The Three Rings they made without Sauron's knowledge, but they also made many others, with his help.

Sauron, of course, deceived the elves, and secretly forged the One Ring in the fires of Mount Doom. The power of all of the Rings (even the Three) was bound to the One, and it was Sauron's plan to gain control and lordship over all the lands of Middle-earth through them.

However, because of the difference in the way that the Three Rings were made, the elves were able to use them to perceive Sauron's actions. When he completed the One Ring and tried to use it, the Elves hid the Three, which they believed could still be used for their original purpose, and tried to destroy the rest. There was an ensuing war between Sauron and the Elves, during which he seized many of the remaining Rings, which he gave as gifts to Men and Dwarves.

The chief power of all of the Rings was the slowing or prevention of decay of things that are desired or loved, but they also had the ability to enhance the natural powers and abilities of their possessors. This is what made them so desirable to Men, but also what corrupted them.

BTW, this information can be found in the preface to The Silmarillion, and also in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #131.

Last edited by RoboDad; 01-22-04 at 03:27 PM.
Old 01-22-04, 03:18 PM
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The rings were made by the Elven Smiths of Eregion who were made up primarily of Noldorian Elves. The Noldor were high elves who often sought the counsel of Aule (the Vala known for craftmanship in metal and stone). The Noldor often times sought to make objects which captured the essense of a part of creation and/or provided some benefit to the users. Of greatest power was the Silmarils, crafted in Aman by Feanor of the Noldor. The palantiri were also said to be the craft work of the Noldor.

During the long peace after the fall of Melkor, the Noldor in Eregion began to study ringcraft. Sauron the deceivor, under guise of a friendly craftmaster assisted in the fashioning of many of the minor rings and the rings of the men and dwarves. But of the three elven rings, Sauron played no part in the creation as they were the work of Celebrimbor, grandson of Feanor.
Old 01-22-04, 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by mwdkill
Okay well i know that part in the beginning of fellowship...but why did he make the rings...why not make one ring and one ring only
I belive the one ring basically controls the others. Thus he needed to get the elves to make them and the various races to wear them, before the one ring would be able to control them.
Old 01-22-04, 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by wlmowery
But of the three elven rings, Sauron played no part in the creation as they were the work of Celebrimbor, grandson of Feanor.
True, but it is important to remember that, even though Sauron did not assist in the forging of the Three, he was still able to control them, or at least to bind their powers to the One. That is why the Three also lost their powers when the One was unmade.
Old 01-22-04, 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by RoboDad
or at least to bind their powers to the One. That is why the Three also lost their powers when the One was unmade.
I think this is a correct approach to the situation. Sauron could not control the elven rings in the same sense as he could the rings for men and dwarves. But the power of all the great rings was intertwined with the One as the actual knowlege-base that lead to the creation of the great rings came from Sauron...
Old 01-22-04, 05:38 PM
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Also, something they never mentioned in the films is that of the three rings, Elrond had one, Galadriel had one (this is shown), but it was Gandalf who had the third! This came as a big surprise to me as I read "Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age" in The Silmarillion.
Old 01-22-04, 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by Suprmallet
Also, something they never mentioned in the films is that of the three rings, Elrond had one, Galadriel had one (this is shown), but it was Gandalf who had the third! This came as a big surprise to me as I read "Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age" in The Silmarillion.
Yes, I was quite surprised as well. It is the Ring Narya that he wears: the ring of fire. It also has the ability to strengthen hearts, which is why the fellowship was true and strong when in his presence.
Old 01-22-04, 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by Suprmallet
Also, something they never mentioned in the films is that of the three rings, Elrond had one, Galadriel had one (this is shown), but it was Gandalf who had the third! This came as a big surprise to me as I read "Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age" in The Silmarillion.
Well this is referenced I believe when Gandalf confronts the Balrog, which is good enough for me. Really, of all the things that had to be cut/not included in the trilogy, Gandalf bearing one of the rings was not really that high up in importance.
Old 01-22-04, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Suprmallet
Also, something they never mentioned in the films is that of the three rings, Elrond had one, Galadriel had one (this is shown), but it was Gandalf who had the third! This came as a big surprise to me as I read "Of The Rings Of Power And The Third Age" in The Silmarillion.
FWIW, this fact is mentioned in the appendices. In appendix B, it details how Cirdan offered his Ring to Gandalf when he (Gandalf) arrived in Middle-earth.
Old 01-23-04, 05:07 AM
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If you pay attention during the Grey Havens scene in ROTK, Narya is quite clearly and prominently displayed on Gandalf's finger.

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Old 01-23-04, 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by chucks888
Well this is referenced I believe when Gandalf confronts the Balrog, which is good enough for me. Really, of all the things that had to be cut/not included in the trilogy, Gandalf bearing one of the rings was not really that high up in importance.
I wasn't saying it was something that should have been talked about extensively in the film, I'm just saying that I was surprised when I read it, because it wasn't talked about in the film. That's all.
Old 01-24-04, 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by chucks888
Well this is referenced I believe when Gandalf confronts the Balrog, which is good enough for me. Really, of all the things that had to be cut/not included in the trilogy, Gandalf bearing one of the rings was not really that high up in importance.
this may be possible, but as the encyclopedia of Arda says, quite logically: Gandalf would never reveal that he had a ring of power to a servant of the enemy. when gandalf says: "i am a servant of the secret fire," it makes more sense that he meant he is a servant of illuvatar, God. (illuvatar created life with a "secret" and "imperishable" fire, which melkor (morgoth, sauron's boss) could never duplicate.)
Old 01-29-04, 04:00 PM
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Interesting info. that I had long since forgotten from the books. While I find all of this information useful, any of this coming from a conversation at a bar would immediately elminate those discussing it from finding company that night.
Old 01-29-04, 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by TCG
this may be possible, but as the encyclopedia of Arda says, quite logically: Gandalf would never reveal that he had a ring of power to a servant of the enemy. when gandalf says: "i am a servant of the secret fire," it makes more sense that he meant he is a servant of illuvatar, God. (illuvatar created life with a "secret" and "imperishable" fire, which melkor (morgoth, sauron's boss) could never duplicate.)
Too true but the Balrog was not "a servant of the enemy". At least not their current enemy. Though the Balrogs served Morgoth, Sauron could not control them. If I recall correctly, he could subdue them with his power as it was magnified by his ring but could never control them.
Old 01-30-04, 03:24 AM
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Whether or not the Balrog was a servant of the Enemy is really irrelevant, since the reference to the Secret Fire is not a reference to Gandalf's Ring. He was not a servant of Narya, he was its bearer.

The Secret Fire is the essence of life in Middle-earth, placed there by Illuvatar during its creation. From The Silmarillion:

"Therefore Illuvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Ea."
Old 02-01-04, 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by RoboDad
Whether or not the Balrog was a servant of the Enemy is really irrelevant, since the reference to the Secret Fire is not a reference to Gandalf's Ring. He was not a servant of Narya, he was its bearer.

The Secret Fire is the essence of life in Middle-earth, placed there by Illuvatar during its creation. From The Silmarillion:

"Therefore Illuvatar gave to their vision Being, and set it amid the Void, and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World; and it was called Ea."
I know that. I was merely correcting one minor error in TCG's post. If you look again you'll see that I acknowledge that he's is correct with regards to his main argument. I was merely correcting a detail.

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