A tentative "Troy" vs. "Helen of Troy" thread
01-21-04, 03:12 PM
#1
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A tentative "Troy" vs. "Helen of Troy" thread (now with pics)
The previous "Troy" discussion in Movie Talk seemed to centre around Mr. Orlando Bloom (Paris)'s testes or lack thereof. I would like to poll people who have seen both "Troy"'s trailer and the 1955 film "Helen of Troy" about perceived similarities.
This discussion will not concern itself with the semi-pornographic 2003 TV series of the same name.
(Helen sees Paris lying on the beach at Sparta.)
(Paris lying on the beach at Sparta.)
"Helen of Troy" (1955), an international Warner Brothers production by Robert Wise in CinemaScope, Warnercolor and stereophonic sound, is coming out on DVD on April 27, 2004 to coincide with the theatrical release of "Troy". It has been seen on television in the US and is (was) available on VHS and laserdisc. It has the following cast...
Rossana Podestà .... Helen
Jacques Sernas .... Paris (as Jack Sernas)
Cedric Hardwicke .... Priam
Stanley Baker .... Achilles
Niall MacGinnis .... Menelaus
Nora Swinburne .... Hekuba
Robert Douglas .... Agamemnon
Torin Thatcher .... Odysseus
Harry Andrews .... Hector
Janette Scott .... Cassandra
Ronald Lewis .... Aeneas
Brigitte Bardot .... Andraste
Eduardo Ciannelli .... Andros
Marc Lawrence .... Diomedes
Maxwell Reed .... Ajax
Robert Brown .... Polydorus
Barbara Cavan .... Cora
Terence Longdon .... Patroclus
Patricia Marmont .... Andromache
Guido Notari .... Nestor
Tonio Selwart .... Alpheus
George Zoritch .... Dancer
Esmond Knight .... High Priest
... and what looks like about 10 000 extras shaped like Greek statuary (we're talking real people here, though, not virtual CGI clones).
The film came under criticism at the time for featuring two European stars (Sernas and Podesta) unknown to American audiences who, despite their best linguistic efforts, had their English dialogue dubbed by professional voice-over artists. The end-result was two youngsters with magnificent physical attributes and facial expressions emoting in supernaturally perfect voices. I liked it.
The film has also jokingly been called "I was a teenage Prince of Troy" because of the youth and likeability factor of its central love duo for teenagers the world over. It was the "Titanic" of its day.
The "Troy" trailer reproduces scenes that are familiar to viewers of the 1955 version, which had to do without CGI but did rely on matte paintings and miniatures, among other effects: the 1,000 ships (the view of those ships at night was practically lifted by Peter Jackson in his view from Helm's Deep at night); the walls of Troy; the streets of Troy; the fight scenes; the wooden horse.
"Helen of Troy" also boasts a very remarkable music score by Max Steiner which is allowed to take precedence over the sound effects in the most crucial scenes. It is also celebrated for its tight editing (Robert Wise started in the business as the editor of "Citizen Kane"), sense of place, innovative sound editing, "authenticity", aesthetics and atmosphere. It was also one of the rare "secular" versions of "The Iliad", where the gods are alluded to but never shown.
Any comments? Personnally, I think the only good thing to come out of "Troy" will be the "Helen of Troy" DVD. Besides, who ever heard of blond Greek men (Brad Pitt as Achilles)? Everybody knows only male Trojans (Sernas) and female Greek princesses (Podesta) should be blonde!
This discussion will not concern itself with the semi-pornographic 2003 TV series of the same name.
(Helen sees Paris lying on the beach at Sparta.)
(Paris lying on the beach at Sparta.)
"Helen of Troy" (1955), an international Warner Brothers production by Robert Wise in CinemaScope, Warnercolor and stereophonic sound, is coming out on DVD on April 27, 2004 to coincide with the theatrical release of "Troy". It has been seen on television in the US and is (was) available on VHS and laserdisc. It has the following cast...
Rossana Podestà .... Helen
Jacques Sernas .... Paris (as Jack Sernas)
Cedric Hardwicke .... Priam
Stanley Baker .... Achilles
Niall MacGinnis .... Menelaus
Nora Swinburne .... Hekuba
Robert Douglas .... Agamemnon
Torin Thatcher .... Odysseus
Harry Andrews .... Hector
Janette Scott .... Cassandra
Ronald Lewis .... Aeneas
Brigitte Bardot .... Andraste
Eduardo Ciannelli .... Andros
Marc Lawrence .... Diomedes
Maxwell Reed .... Ajax
Robert Brown .... Polydorus
Barbara Cavan .... Cora
Terence Longdon .... Patroclus
Patricia Marmont .... Andromache
Guido Notari .... Nestor
Tonio Selwart .... Alpheus
George Zoritch .... Dancer
Esmond Knight .... High Priest
... and what looks like about 10 000 extras shaped like Greek statuary (we're talking real people here, though, not virtual CGI clones).
The film came under criticism at the time for featuring two European stars (Sernas and Podesta) unknown to American audiences who, despite their best linguistic efforts, had their English dialogue dubbed by professional voice-over artists. The end-result was two youngsters with magnificent physical attributes and facial expressions emoting in supernaturally perfect voices. I liked it.
The film has also jokingly been called "I was a teenage Prince of Troy" because of the youth and likeability factor of its central love duo for teenagers the world over. It was the "Titanic" of its day.
The "Troy" trailer reproduces scenes that are familiar to viewers of the 1955 version, which had to do without CGI but did rely on matte paintings and miniatures, among other effects: the 1,000 ships (the view of those ships at night was practically lifted by Peter Jackson in his view from Helm's Deep at night); the walls of Troy; the streets of Troy; the fight scenes; the wooden horse.
"Helen of Troy" also boasts a very remarkable music score by Max Steiner which is allowed to take precedence over the sound effects in the most crucial scenes. It is also celebrated for its tight editing (Robert Wise started in the business as the editor of "Citizen Kane"), sense of place, innovative sound editing, "authenticity", aesthetics and atmosphere. It was also one of the rare "secular" versions of "The Iliad", where the gods are alluded to but never shown.
Any comments? Personnally, I think the only good thing to come out of "Troy" will be the "Helen of Troy" DVD. Besides, who ever heard of blond Greek men (Brad Pitt as Achilles)? Everybody knows only male Trojans (Sernas) and female Greek princesses (Podesta) should be blonde!
Last edited by baracine; 08-06-04 at 06:54 AM.
01-21-04, 03:44 PM
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Seeing as how the movie doesn't come out until later this summer I would say it's much too early to make a judgement call, especially when basing my opinion on a trailer.
01-21-04, 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by PalmerJoss
Seeing as how the movie doesn't come out until later this summer I would say it's much too early to make a judgement call, especially when basing my opinion on a trailer.
Seeing as how the movie doesn't come out until later this summer I would say it's much too early to make a judgement call, especially when basing my opinion on a trailer.
Last edited by baracine; 01-21-04 at 04:00 PM.
01-21-04, 04:07 PM
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Well I think Troy looks like it could be a very good movie. Some good talent behind the film could be very good. I haven't seen this 1955 version, but perhaps I'll check it out when the newer one comes out.
01-21-04, 04:30 PM
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FYI: The photos on this "Helen of Troy" website are from the 1955 film. The American Film Institute used to have a whole page with animations and videoclips of this film in celebration of Robert Wise's 1998 Lifetime Achievement Award, but, alas, no more...
http://www.geocities.com/tmartiac/thalassa/helen.htm
This is what the lovers look like:
Stanley Baker as Achilles (with Patrocles in tow):
http://www.geocities.com/tmartiac/thalassa/helen.htm
This is what the lovers look like:
Stanley Baker as Achilles (with Patrocles in tow):
Last edited by baracine; 08-06-04 at 06:48 AM.
01-21-04, 05:29 PM
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01-21-04, 06:54 PM
#9
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Originally posted by ktan1
fyi,
there is a region free version of the helen of troy dvd. available in your nearest chinatown!!
fyi,
there is a region free version of the helen of troy dvd. available in your nearest chinatown!!
Last edited by baracine; 01-21-04 at 06:56 PM.
01-21-04, 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by RyoHazuki
Troy has Sean Bean and therefor is a better movie.
Troy has Sean Bean and therefor is a better movie.
Bardot, Sernas and director Robert Wise, rehearsing Paris' escape scene.
Last edited by baracine; 07-29-04 at 03:43 PM.
01-22-04, 10:09 AM
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O.K.... I can see this thread is going nowhere fast. Which goes to prove that none of the regular members have seen "Helen of Troy" (1955), a sure indication that it's an underrated classic.
I hope the issue of the DVD on April 27, 2004 will correct this situation.
Things to look for in that DVD:
If there's an isolated music track, and even without it, viewers will be able to appreciate what a "real film score" should sound like, one that is unobtrusive when need be and takes center-stage when it's called for, one that punctuates the action so that the whole film looks like an intricate ballet, one that gives a sense of place, purpose, dignity, tragedy, mystery and grandeur to the proceedings.
DIRECTIONAL stereo sound.
Various tricks used by Robert Wise (the director): Note the number of scenes where characters look directly into the camera to make a point (Menelaus explaining why the war must be waged, Helen talking about the way Gods give with one hand and take with two, Cassandra predicting the worse, etc.). This technique is absolutely chilling as a way of involving the viewer in the action. It can be said to originate in the theatre or the films of Rouben Mamoulian (Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Love Me Tonight) - choose one.
Note the number of scenes where a whole crowd's movement is choreographed to fill the whole screen, especially the advancing army, the magnificent entrance of the wooden horse and the following orgy.
As this was before television had corrupted the use of close-ups forever (TV is nothing but close-ups), note the number of times the camera pulls back from the action to give a general view of the action, thus creating a tableau and making full use of the wide screen.
The laserdisc features a trailer which shows a scene where Jacques Sernas uses his real voice: The result is a little rough around the edges but not bad, for a Czech motorcycle gang member. The same trailer shows orgy scenes which are not in the final cut. I can only hope the DVD will have extras such as deleted scenes and Ms. Podesta's and Mr. Sernas' original voice tracks.
Brigitte Bardot uses her real voice, which is remarkable, considering her English got so bad in later years. She also cradles a whippet, the first of many dogs she would be seen carrying in later films.
I hope the issue of the DVD on April 27, 2004 will correct this situation.
Things to look for in that DVD:
If there's an isolated music track, and even without it, viewers will be able to appreciate what a "real film score" should sound like, one that is unobtrusive when need be and takes center-stage when it's called for, one that punctuates the action so that the whole film looks like an intricate ballet, one that gives a sense of place, purpose, dignity, tragedy, mystery and grandeur to the proceedings.
DIRECTIONAL stereo sound.
Various tricks used by Robert Wise (the director): Note the number of scenes where characters look directly into the camera to make a point (Menelaus explaining why the war must be waged, Helen talking about the way Gods give with one hand and take with two, Cassandra predicting the worse, etc.). This technique is absolutely chilling as a way of involving the viewer in the action. It can be said to originate in the theatre or the films of Rouben Mamoulian (Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Love Me Tonight) - choose one.
Note the number of scenes where a whole crowd's movement is choreographed to fill the whole screen, especially the advancing army, the magnificent entrance of the wooden horse and the following orgy.
As this was before television had corrupted the use of close-ups forever (TV is nothing but close-ups), note the number of times the camera pulls back from the action to give a general view of the action, thus creating a tableau and making full use of the wide screen.
The laserdisc features a trailer which shows a scene where Jacques Sernas uses his real voice: The result is a little rough around the edges but not bad, for a Czech motorcycle gang member. The same trailer shows orgy scenes which are not in the final cut. I can only hope the DVD will have extras such as deleted scenes and Ms. Podesta's and Mr. Sernas' original voice tracks.
Brigitte Bardot uses her real voice, which is remarkable, considering her English got so bad in later years. She also cradles a whippet, the first of many dogs she would be seen carrying in later films.
Last edited by baracine; 04-28-04 at 01:53 PM.
04-27-04, 07:13 PM
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The day has arrived...
Today is April 27, 2004. Helen of Troy (1955) has finally come out on DVD. The DVD reproduces everything that was on the laserdisc that prompted me to buy a widescreen TV and surround sound system in the first place.
Unfortunately, the Dolby 5.1 sound does not offer directional dialogue but the sound effects are nicely spaced out and directional in this format, just as they were in the Dolby Surround laserdisc. And the sound and picture elements are first rate.
Max Steiner's score - which is not featured on a music-only track as I had hoped - has never been so all-encompassing.
The picture couldn't be better in all its CinemaScope glory, except for the fact that less of the picture is visible on the sides on an ordinary widescreen TV than was seen on the laserdisc because the latter did a slight windowboxing of the non-anamorphic picture to compensate for TV overscanning and the DVD doesn't do the same for the anamorphic picture. But the complete width of the image is still visible on a computer, as it will be with DVD players equipped with x-y scaling.
It's time to revive this thread and to post comparisons of this film with the new Troy which I certainly intend to see - even though I suspect it will have been made into some kind of effects-driven CGI-nightmare and possibly a "revenge film" like every second US movie produced this year, from "The Punisher" to "Walking Tall" to "Man on Fire"...
Notice I'm not saying a "teen-oriented" CGI nightmare, because, after all, the original Helen of Troy was plenty teen-oriented... The only thing missing was "Theme from a Summer Place" playing while Helen and Paris walk along the beach...
Unfortunately, the Dolby 5.1 sound does not offer directional dialogue but the sound effects are nicely spaced out and directional in this format, just as they were in the Dolby Surround laserdisc. And the sound and picture elements are first rate.
Max Steiner's score - which is not featured on a music-only track as I had hoped - has never been so all-encompassing.
The picture couldn't be better in all its CinemaScope glory, except for the fact that less of the picture is visible on the sides on an ordinary widescreen TV than was seen on the laserdisc because the latter did a slight windowboxing of the non-anamorphic picture to compensate for TV overscanning and the DVD doesn't do the same for the anamorphic picture. But the complete width of the image is still visible on a computer, as it will be with DVD players equipped with x-y scaling.
It's time to revive this thread and to post comparisons of this film with the new Troy which I certainly intend to see - even though I suspect it will have been made into some kind of effects-driven CGI-nightmare and possibly a "revenge film" like every second US movie produced this year, from "The Punisher" to "Walking Tall" to "Man on Fire"...
Notice I'm not saying a "teen-oriented" CGI nightmare, because, after all, the original Helen of Troy was plenty teen-oriented... The only thing missing was "Theme from a Summer Place" playing while Helen and Paris walk along the beach...
Last edited by baracine; 04-28-04 at 10:14 AM.
04-28-04, 02:07 PM
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A note on the French track
The DVD has a 1.0 Dolby track that is 50's vintage and made in France. The actors do a competent job with (1) no visible effort to make the dialogue more (or less) "noble" or "stagey" than the original and (2) considerable leeway accorded the actors given the relative non-star status of the principals, to experiment with pitch, expression, etc. In other words, some characters sound really different.
Interestingly, Ms. Podesta and Ms. Bardot had nothing to do with this version. Ms. Podesta was always dubbed in French. Jacques Sernas may have done his own voice, but it's impossible to be sure (French was not his native language). Ms. Bardot seems to have very bad memories of this film, probably because she did not get enough credit on the posters at a time when her star was rising and Ms. Podesta was failing.
The compression of the dialogue with the gigantic orchestral forces of the score on a single track gives a good impression of how the inimitable "mushiness" of the sound of grade B movies or foreign market versions of grade A movies was achieved. Still, it has a charm all its own.
I like to play it with the "Mono Movie" option of the CD mode of my Denon receiver in order to fill all 5 speakers in fat mono.
Interestingly, Ms. Podesta and Ms. Bardot had nothing to do with this version. Ms. Podesta was always dubbed in French. Jacques Sernas may have done his own voice, but it's impossible to be sure (French was not his native language). Ms. Bardot seems to have very bad memories of this film, probably because she did not get enough credit on the posters at a time when her star was rising and Ms. Podesta was failing.
The compression of the dialogue with the gigantic orchestral forces of the score on a single track gives a good impression of how the inimitable "mushiness" of the sound of grade B movies or foreign market versions of grade A movies was achieved. Still, it has a charm all its own.
I like to play it with the "Mono Movie" option of the CD mode of my Denon receiver in order to fill all 5 speakers in fat mono.
I'll get it on Friday if they have it in.
05-14-04, 03:55 PM
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The only "Troy" movie with a Cassandra character...
It appears that among other shortcomings, the new version of "Troy" is lacking a Cassandra, the essential character through whose visions and pronouncements the whole of "Helen of Troy" is enfolded.
I'm sure what happened is this. The producers of "Troy" must have shown the following scene from the 1955 movie to a focus group of teenagers. It's the scene where Paris introduces Helen to his family. The dialogue goes something like this...
Helen: My name is ...
Cassandra (from the wings): Her name is Death!!! (cue: Max Steiner's music)
Priam: Cassandra! Forgive our daughter. She is ill.
Polydorus: You were saying, my dear?
Helen: I am Helen of Sparta.
Wife to Priam: Wife to king Menelaus?
Paris: His wife no more! She risked her life so that I could live. Leaving her in Sparta would have meant certain death for her.
Priam: Take our guest to her quarters. We will discuss the matter later. (They leave hurriedly.)
Cassandra: She is the goddess Aphrodite, the goddess of beauty come to Troy to spite Athena. Because of her, hundreds of Trojans will die and our very city will perish in the flames of war. Helen... Helen of Troy! (music reaches fateful climax)
Then they asked them what they thought of Cassandra as a character and when the votes were tabulated, the general consensus was: "Too negative", "What a nerd!", "She looks like she doesn't put out much", "Mental illness is such a turn-off", "This girl is one major spoiler", "Not a team player", "A real downer", etc. The more dyslexic participants had drawn Cassandra's face with a big "L" on her forehead.
I'm sure what happened is this. The producers of "Troy" must have shown the following scene from the 1955 movie to a focus group of teenagers. It's the scene where Paris introduces Helen to his family. The dialogue goes something like this...
Helen: My name is ...
Cassandra (from the wings): Her name is Death!!! (cue: Max Steiner's music)
Priam: Cassandra! Forgive our daughter. She is ill.
Polydorus: You were saying, my dear?
Helen: I am Helen of Sparta.
Wife to Priam: Wife to king Menelaus?
Paris: His wife no more! She risked her life so that I could live. Leaving her in Sparta would have meant certain death for her.
Priam: Take our guest to her quarters. We will discuss the matter later. (They leave hurriedly.)
Cassandra: She is the goddess Aphrodite, the goddess of beauty come to Troy to spite Athena. Because of her, hundreds of Trojans will die and our very city will perish in the flames of war. Helen... Helen of Troy! (music reaches fateful climax)
Then they asked them what they thought of Cassandra as a character and when the votes were tabulated, the general consensus was: "Too negative", "What a nerd!", "She looks like she doesn't put out much", "Mental illness is such a turn-off", "This girl is one major spoiler", "Not a team player", "A real downer", etc. The more dyslexic participants had drawn Cassandra's face with a big "L" on her forehead.
Last edited by baracine; 05-14-04 at 08:07 PM.
07-11-04, 08:12 AM
#19
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Amusing reader DVD review of the 1955 film on the New York Times site, which makes up for many - shall we say - "uncomprehending" opinions by official reviewers* of the film (and DVD):
http://movies2.nytimes.com/rnr/movie...es=0&trailer=0
Hi Steve: You Are So Right, June 13, 2004
Reviewer: waynestedman
This one looks wonderful compared to the 2004 version. If one were 17 in 1955 and has a memory, it looks even better with time. It would help to have had a few years of Latin, which some of us did. An ex colleague and my personal friend, movie reviewer for the old Paris Trib, Stephen Grover, recently pointed out in a letter in the new NYT Trib about the AO Scott review that no one noticed the new film's score crediting was wrong. It irritated Steve enough for him to come out of retirement in anger in Athens. In the 1955 version, the myth was kept a myth, the jokingly cruel gods on Olympus played their mortal teasing games, Cassandra warned about the dire fate of those who tease the gods, Achilles had a fatally vulnerable heel and did not have to take tons of arrows in his thigh just to die, and there are no jokes about how Joe Stalin's question on many divisions the Pope had. Just for fun, rent this one. And hey, Brad is no Jacques Sernas. Not by anybody's ankle. Even Bardot would agree. Topping it all, they actually wrote Cassandra out of the new computer toy film. Go figger
(end of review)
* The worst yet, in terms of sheer stupidity and "prisoner of the zeitgeist" negativity, has to go to DVD reviewer Mike Sutton of an outfit called DVD Times (UK), who talks about Helen of Troy's Trojan horse as being a "very badly scaled model". Does he mean it has a skin condition? The whole thing :
http://dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=11900
Priceless!
http://movies2.nytimes.com/rnr/movie...es=0&trailer=0
Hi Steve: You Are So Right, June 13, 2004
Reviewer: waynestedman
This one looks wonderful compared to the 2004 version. If one were 17 in 1955 and has a memory, it looks even better with time. It would help to have had a few years of Latin, which some of us did. An ex colleague and my personal friend, movie reviewer for the old Paris Trib, Stephen Grover, recently pointed out in a letter in the new NYT Trib about the AO Scott review that no one noticed the new film's score crediting was wrong. It irritated Steve enough for him to come out of retirement in anger in Athens. In the 1955 version, the myth was kept a myth, the jokingly cruel gods on Olympus played their mortal teasing games, Cassandra warned about the dire fate of those who tease the gods, Achilles had a fatally vulnerable heel and did not have to take tons of arrows in his thigh just to die, and there are no jokes about how Joe Stalin's question on many divisions the Pope had. Just for fun, rent this one. And hey, Brad is no Jacques Sernas. Not by anybody's ankle. Even Bardot would agree. Topping it all, they actually wrote Cassandra out of the new computer toy film. Go figger
(end of review)
* The worst yet, in terms of sheer stupidity and "prisoner of the zeitgeist" negativity, has to go to DVD reviewer Mike Sutton of an outfit called DVD Times (UK), who talks about Helen of Troy's Trojan horse as being a "very badly scaled model". Does he mean it has a skin condition? The whole thing :
http://dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=11900
Priceless!
Last edited by baracine; 07-29-05 at 03:23 PM.
07-24-04, 09:31 AM
#20
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This thread is slowly turning into a personal blog. Thought you might be interested though in this IMDb personal message from England in reaction to my IMDb review of "Helen of Troy"*.
Helen of Troy
by - anthony_beeson on Sat Jul 24 02:42:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello fellow Trojan!
I have just read your splendid review of Helen of Troy which is the film that has meant most to me in my life. I thought that you might like to know that Emily Clary in Texas is constructing a Helen and Jacques Sernas site which is very good. I intend to give her a piece on the sets as I had correspondence with Edward Carrere the designer in the 1970s and have copies of some of his original ideas. It should be a good meeting place for those who enjoy the film. Her site is http://home.flash.net/~torchie/jacquessernas.html
or just go on to Google and put "sernas" and "foxfire" in the search box. as another American fan Steve Kane said to me about the film recently "No film is perfect, but this one is perfectly grand!"
All good wishes,
Anthony Beeson (in England)
* My IMDb review:
Benoît A. Racine
Toronto, Ontario
Date: 5 October 2001
Summary: One of the greatest epics ever made!
Basically, this movie is criticized because, being one of the very first big international co-productions, its main players were Euro celebrities who never caught on in the US, and because Jacques Sernas' and Rossana Podesta's voices were voiced-over. That is a pretty shallow approach to movie criticism. This film is well-scripted (it's based on Homer and neither substracts nor adds to his basic plot - except for the Gods, which are mentioned but never seen, which makes it a modern secular version of the Iliad), well-acted by some very impressive British actors, superbly constructed (art direction, photography, costumes, period research, choreography) and creates a lasting impression. I own it on laser disc and just had to buy a widescreen TV with home theatre sound to do it justice. I can watch this movie as often as I crave substantial food, which is very often. Robert Wise, besides being the director of The Day the Earth Stood Still, West Side Story and The Sound of Music started his career as the editor of Citizen Kane and it is his input in the editing (vibrant, energetic, kinetic, masculine) that makes this movie a real winner and actually brings life to the giant vistas of this classic and tragic fairy tale/war movie/love story. Max Steiner's beautiful score adds several other dimensions to this masterpiece and its interplay with the editing is always fascinating to watch. The general impression is a beautiful dream of the paintings on a Greek urn coming to magical, inspiring, colourful life. It is also fascinating to watch how the fight scenes were a sort of preliminary study to the ones in West Side Story, which is basically on the same subject. I had better stop while I'm ahead. One word of advice: Don't believe the nay-sayers (i.e. Leonard Maltin) until you have experienced it for yourself in all its CinemaScope, Technicolor and Stereophonic glory. A must-have at any price and already overdue on DVD.
The whole Users' COmments page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049301/usercomments
Helen of Troy
by - anthony_beeson on Sat Jul 24 02:42:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello fellow Trojan!
I have just read your splendid review of Helen of Troy which is the film that has meant most to me in my life. I thought that you might like to know that Emily Clary in Texas is constructing a Helen and Jacques Sernas site which is very good. I intend to give her a piece on the sets as I had correspondence with Edward Carrere the designer in the 1970s and have copies of some of his original ideas. It should be a good meeting place for those who enjoy the film. Her site is http://home.flash.net/~torchie/jacquessernas.html
or just go on to Google and put "sernas" and "foxfire" in the search box. as another American fan Steve Kane said to me about the film recently "No film is perfect, but this one is perfectly grand!"
All good wishes,
Anthony Beeson (in England)
* My IMDb review:
Benoît A. Racine
Toronto, Ontario
Date: 5 October 2001
Summary: One of the greatest epics ever made!
Basically, this movie is criticized because, being one of the very first big international co-productions, its main players were Euro celebrities who never caught on in the US, and because Jacques Sernas' and Rossana Podesta's voices were voiced-over. That is a pretty shallow approach to movie criticism. This film is well-scripted (it's based on Homer and neither substracts nor adds to his basic plot - except for the Gods, which are mentioned but never seen, which makes it a modern secular version of the Iliad), well-acted by some very impressive British actors, superbly constructed (art direction, photography, costumes, period research, choreography) and creates a lasting impression. I own it on laser disc and just had to buy a widescreen TV with home theatre sound to do it justice. I can watch this movie as often as I crave substantial food, which is very often. Robert Wise, besides being the director of The Day the Earth Stood Still, West Side Story and The Sound of Music started his career as the editor of Citizen Kane and it is his input in the editing (vibrant, energetic, kinetic, masculine) that makes this movie a real winner and actually brings life to the giant vistas of this classic and tragic fairy tale/war movie/love story. Max Steiner's beautiful score adds several other dimensions to this masterpiece and its interplay with the editing is always fascinating to watch. The general impression is a beautiful dream of the paintings on a Greek urn coming to magical, inspiring, colourful life. It is also fascinating to watch how the fight scenes were a sort of preliminary study to the ones in West Side Story, which is basically on the same subject. I had better stop while I'm ahead. One word of advice: Don't believe the nay-sayers (i.e. Leonard Maltin) until you have experienced it for yourself in all its CinemaScope, Technicolor and Stereophonic glory. A must-have at any price and already overdue on DVD.
The whole Users' COmments page: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049301/usercomments
07-28-04, 11:05 PM
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Helen of Troy
I was a huge fan of this movie when it came out back in 1956 and even had a Dell comic book, although it had a different ending because Paris survives. When "Troy" was about to be released, I wondered if it would measure up to the film I remembered and loved so well. I was so very disappointed in the new movie that I almost left the theater, and I never leave a movie that I don't like. Okay, Eric Bana made a very impressive Hector and the combat scene between Hector and Achilles seemed like a more even match. Orlando Bloom is one of my favorite actors and I could not imagine any one else playing Legolas in"Lord of the Rings," but he made a terrible Paris, though most of the problem was the script. I wondered how Helen could love a coward and why Paris would want a woman who was barely attractive. The "Iliad" describes Paris and Helen as strickingly beautiful people with whom others fell easily in love. In the original, classic "Helen", the audience sees two people who seem to have a natural beauty and elegance. Their love story is the background for everything that follows and we continue to be reminded how deeply they are in love. Just at the point we finally want to think all is well, we become drawn into the impending tragedy as the revelers dance and drink around the 'Trojan horse.' The music of Max Steiner sweeps us away and continues to set the tone for each change in fortune. The final ironic twist is when Paris tells Helen "the gods are with us," just prior to his battle with Menelaus. One wonders what gods he is talking about. (This is the point where I usually want to cry.) Helen's final memory recalling that 'what has been lived and shared is never lost,' is both heart wrenching and wonderfully poignant.
I could go on and on but instead recommend that you watch the movie and make your own decision. Check out my Jacques Sernas web as described above.
Emily Clary
I could go on and on but instead recommend that you watch the movie and make your own decision. Check out my Jacques Sernas web as described above.
Emily Clary
07-29-04, 12:17 PM
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I'd have to give the edge to Troy over Helen of Troy. Helen of Troy is just one chick, no way can she beat the entire state of Troy.
07-29-04, 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by majorjoe23
I'd have to give the edge to Troy over Helen of Troy. Helen of Troy is just one chick, no way can she beat the entire state of Troy.
I'd have to give the edge to Troy over Helen of Troy. Helen of Troy is just one chick, no way can she beat the entire state of Troy.
Which would you rather hug... Troy?
or Helen of Troy?
Last edited by baracine; 07-29-04 at 03:28 PM.
08-06-04, 05:39 AM
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Helen of Troy
The 1956 film "Helen of Troy" must rank as one of the finest artistic achievements of cinema.
The art direction of Edward Carrere created a Troy that was a wonder to behold and certainly had echoes of Homer's "well walled" and "wide-wayed" beautiful metropolis. Although a fantasy city, and far larger and grander than even the new excavations at the site allow us to believe it really was, it contained architectural features in its buildings that might well have been seen in the real Troy. The lovely matte paintings of Louis Lichtenfield after Carrere's designs only added to the wonderful impact when seeing the film on a full-sized cinemascope screen. Contemporary reviews and public reaction, in Britain at least, were very enthusiastic.
Robert Wise and his team made a conscious decision to eschew the silk brocaded vulgarity of the De Mille epics and to attempt to show the Bronze Age as they thought it might have been. Fabrics for garments are roughly cut and colours are muted and generally pastel. The scenes in the film are really tone poems.
Wise's skill as a director comes through in his handling of the wide-screen. He attempts to have actions on the periphery of the screen that relate to the main subject in its centre. This is most noticeable in the penultimate scene of the death of Paris where an ordinary Trojan couple are suffering the same tragedy within feet of the Royal lovers. One cares about Wise's Trojans both high and low. They have a humanity entirely lacking in the inhabitants of other cinema Troys. It is interesting to see the similarities in some scenes with action in "West Side Story".
The battle and siege sequences are amongst the most exciting ever filmed and only approached by those in "Prince of Foxes". The Trojan triumph celebrations look the good fun they obviously were when the extras brought their own wine and the eventual sack full of horror and pathos.
To see "Helen of Troy" in wide screen as opposed to pan and scan is to see a whole new film. Our tragedy is that so many who watch it now will never have experienced the effect of seeing it in a proper cinema. Rather the same effect as seeing Rembrandt's "The night watch" on a postage stamp.
Rossana Podesta and Jacques Sernas are often described as unknowns by the american based critic. They both had extremely successful careers in their native Europe and Sernas was himself still appearing in productions until very recently. Hollywood is not the world, although its productions may dominate it. Their acting is delightful in this film. Paris has a boyish charm overlying his manly bearing and Helen has a majesty in her bearing that has not been matched before or since by screen Helens and that unmatchable classical profile.
The script for Helen is one of the most sophisticated of its genre and avoids the banalities so often encountered in epics. The current epic "Troy" is a sad case of how not to approach the subject. "Helen" is full of wonderful and memorable lines. The divine interference in the affairs of men is covered by the constant references to Athena's hatred of Paris engendered through his adoration of Aphrodite. Steiner's music captures the Goddess's malevolence with its use of kythera and systra (used in temple ceremonies) to give the effect of hidden danger. The fact that Cassandra's warnings are interpreted by her family as mental instability is a clever adaption of the ancient curse she was under that she would always prophesy the truth and not be believed. This is captured in her garbled warning of coming events in the film "The storm, the noise, how loud it grows, the screaming of horses the cries of dying men". The fact that "Troy" left out the character of Cassandra beggars belief.
Finally the horse itself. What a supremely beautiful design, based on one from a vase painting and a Pompeian fresco. For Wise's Trojans "A people in love with beauty" it was a sufficiently beautiful prize to drag into the city. "They are building a monument to the triumph of Paris and Helen...a sacred horse, so big and so beautiful that Troy cannot help but take it to her heart"
The dreadful see-through creation featured in the new film was in danger of having a Bronze Age rubbish collection team take it away as a blot on the Saharan- like countryside in which that movie city was set.
"Helen of Troy" continues to attract a growing band of devotees amongst the more informed and aesthetically aware.
It is truly the "thinking man's epic".
Anthony Beeson
The art direction of Edward Carrere created a Troy that was a wonder to behold and certainly had echoes of Homer's "well walled" and "wide-wayed" beautiful metropolis. Although a fantasy city, and far larger and grander than even the new excavations at the site allow us to believe it really was, it contained architectural features in its buildings that might well have been seen in the real Troy. The lovely matte paintings of Louis Lichtenfield after Carrere's designs only added to the wonderful impact when seeing the film on a full-sized cinemascope screen. Contemporary reviews and public reaction, in Britain at least, were very enthusiastic.
Robert Wise and his team made a conscious decision to eschew the silk brocaded vulgarity of the De Mille epics and to attempt to show the Bronze Age as they thought it might have been. Fabrics for garments are roughly cut and colours are muted and generally pastel. The scenes in the film are really tone poems.
Wise's skill as a director comes through in his handling of the wide-screen. He attempts to have actions on the periphery of the screen that relate to the main subject in its centre. This is most noticeable in the penultimate scene of the death of Paris where an ordinary Trojan couple are suffering the same tragedy within feet of the Royal lovers. One cares about Wise's Trojans both high and low. They have a humanity entirely lacking in the inhabitants of other cinema Troys. It is interesting to see the similarities in some scenes with action in "West Side Story".
The battle and siege sequences are amongst the most exciting ever filmed and only approached by those in "Prince of Foxes". The Trojan triumph celebrations look the good fun they obviously were when the extras brought their own wine and the eventual sack full of horror and pathos.
To see "Helen of Troy" in wide screen as opposed to pan and scan is to see a whole new film. Our tragedy is that so many who watch it now will never have experienced the effect of seeing it in a proper cinema. Rather the same effect as seeing Rembrandt's "The night watch" on a postage stamp.
Rossana Podesta and Jacques Sernas are often described as unknowns by the american based critic. They both had extremely successful careers in their native Europe and Sernas was himself still appearing in productions until very recently. Hollywood is not the world, although its productions may dominate it. Their acting is delightful in this film. Paris has a boyish charm overlying his manly bearing and Helen has a majesty in her bearing that has not been matched before or since by screen Helens and that unmatchable classical profile.
The script for Helen is one of the most sophisticated of its genre and avoids the banalities so often encountered in epics. The current epic "Troy" is a sad case of how not to approach the subject. "Helen" is full of wonderful and memorable lines. The divine interference in the affairs of men is covered by the constant references to Athena's hatred of Paris engendered through his adoration of Aphrodite. Steiner's music captures the Goddess's malevolence with its use of kythera and systra (used in temple ceremonies) to give the effect of hidden danger. The fact that Cassandra's warnings are interpreted by her family as mental instability is a clever adaption of the ancient curse she was under that she would always prophesy the truth and not be believed. This is captured in her garbled warning of coming events in the film "The storm, the noise, how loud it grows, the screaming of horses the cries of dying men". The fact that "Troy" left out the character of Cassandra beggars belief.
Finally the horse itself. What a supremely beautiful design, based on one from a vase painting and a Pompeian fresco. For Wise's Trojans "A people in love with beauty" it was a sufficiently beautiful prize to drag into the city. "They are building a monument to the triumph of Paris and Helen...a sacred horse, so big and so beautiful that Troy cannot help but take it to her heart"
The dreadful see-through creation featured in the new film was in danger of having a Bronze Age rubbish collection team take it away as a blot on the Saharan- like countryside in which that movie city was set.
"Helen of Troy" continues to attract a growing band of devotees amongst the more informed and aesthetically aware.
It is truly the "thinking man's epic".
Anthony Beeson