So, where were the "Uncopyable" FX?
05-19-03, 12:06 PM
#1
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So, where were the "Uncopyable" FX?
Remember when the hype machine started for this film, and the SFX guy (I believe his name is Mr. Bighead Egomachine) was making all kinds of outlandish claims about this movie? One of them was along the lines that "There will be visual effects in this film that cannot be copied!"
So, what were they? I didn't see anything that couldn't be replicated by ILM, WETA, or any number of small VFX companies.
So, what were they? I didn't see anything that couldn't be replicated by ILM, WETA, or any number of small VFX companies.
05-19-03, 12:14 PM
#3
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Exactly, although the more I discuss and talk about the movie, the more I like it. However, I remember the claim about the "uncopyable fx" so that set up some disappointment when I didn't see any.
I know they couldn't be talking about the twins?
I know they couldn't be talking about the twins?
05-19-03, 12:21 PM
#7
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Originally posted by trigun
I thought that claim was in reference to a 15+ minute sequence to end Revolutions.
I thought that claim was in reference to a 15+ minute sequence to end Revolutions.
I hope it wasn't in reference to the Burly Brawl.
05-19-03, 12:27 PM
#8
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
When they said uncopyable, I thought it was in reference to the cost to copy them. The burly brawl could definately fall into that catagory. From a visual stand-point, it doesn't seem that impressive. But when you look at it from a film-making standpoint, it's brilliant and by-far, some of the most well done special effects ever done. 100 flawless duplicates of Hugo Weaving fighting full contact with Keanu. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the sequence they were talking about. Tho it's doubtful. It could be done again. It's just time consuming.
But the question I had was 'Where's the 15+ minute fight sequence they were talking about?'. Hopefully that'll be the Agent Smith vs. Neo in the rainy street dequence we've seen in the trailers. It seems like such a bland area, but so did a freeway and a playground and a rooftop and a government lobby and a subway when we first heard of those areas for fight sequences.
I don't think for a minute the Wachowski brothers would make those claims if they didn't have a way to back it up. I have total faith in them.
But the question I had was 'Where's the 15+ minute fight sequence they were talking about?'. Hopefully that'll be the Agent Smith vs. Neo in the rainy street dequence we've seen in the trailers. It seems like such a bland area, but so did a freeway and a playground and a rooftop and a government lobby and a subway when we first heard of those areas for fight sequences.
I don't think for a minute the Wachowski brothers would make those claims if they didn't have a way to back it up. I have total faith in them.
05-19-03, 12:38 PM
#9
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Originally posted by CKMorpheus
When they said uncopyable, I thought it was in reference to the cost to copy them.
When they said uncopyable, I thought it was in reference to the cost to copy them.
100 flawless duplicates of Hugo Weaving fighting full contact with Keanu.
I don't think for a minute the Wachowski brothers would make those claims if they didn't have a way to back it up. I have total faith in them.
05-19-03, 12:43 PM
#10
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Honestly, I can't wait for the DVD to come out so I can go through that scene frame by frame. The thing is, the brothers know that the sequence will be picked apart frame by frame, so I don't think they'd let it go with a bunch of obvious doubles.
05-19-03, 12:51 PM
#12
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I knew that the effects guy's statement was bulls*** before I ever saw the movies. There is no such thing as a special effect that can't be copied. If someone made one and claimed it to be copy proof people would copy it just to prove you wrong.
As for the shots that go "through" the trucks: Not only is that copyable but it isn't even original. Zemekis did this in What Lies Beneath.
As for the shots that go "through" the trucks: Not only is that copyable but it isn't even original. Zemekis did this in What Lies Beneath.
05-19-03, 01:01 PM
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I dont know what show you guys saw, but the show I saw promoting reloaded had a quote by Joel Silver, THE PRODUCER of the movies. The quote was not made by the brothers or the effects people (the main effects guy is John Gaeta I believe).
Ofcourse the producer is going to hype the movie.
And the quote was this, though not word for word...
"In these movies the effects are so time consuming and so expensive that they will never be seen again."
Ofcourse the producer is going to hype the movie.
And the quote was this, though not word for word...
"In these movies the effects are so time consuming and so expensive that they will never be seen again."
05-19-03, 01:06 PM
#14
DVD Talk Limited Edition
They were talking about the burly brawl scene... if I remember correctly.
The EW article said that the burly brawl took a computer two years to render. Two years!
Anyone out for a cheap knock off - like what was done to bullet time after that trick leaked - would never attempt to use that much time and energy for a cheap laugh. I think that's what they were referring to.
The EW article said that the burly brawl took a computer two years to render. Two years!
Anyone out for a cheap knock off - like what was done to bullet time after that trick leaked - would never attempt to use that much time and energy for a cheap laugh. I think that's what they were referring to.
05-19-03, 01:18 PM
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jdpatri-
That's what I've heard about the burly brawl, as well. It took two years to render - I enjoyed the scene but got a bit dizzy.. hehe
Anyways - As with any technology - give it a few years and the rendering process wouldn't take as long.
-bruce
That's what I've heard about the burly brawl, as well. It took two years to render - I enjoyed the scene but got a bit dizzy.. hehe
Anyways - As with any technology - give it a few years and the rendering process wouldn't take as long.
-bruce
05-19-03, 01:40 PM
#16
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
It was probably Gaeta from this Newsweek article
Sure.
“The Matrix” was simply good storytelling. “I’ve heard the ‘Star Wars’ people boast about shooting frames that are 97 percent digital, and lo and behold, the movies are soulless,” says John Gaeta, visual-effects supervisor for all three “Matrix” movies. “They traded the whole idea of depth in filmmaking for this supertechnological hype. It helped us focus our own philosophy: the story drives everything.”
Virtual cinematography wipes out the line in the sand between what is real and what looks like the work of a computer. “Anyone who watches movies or TV or just lives their life is the ultimate expert in realism,” Gaeta says. “You know when things are fake. You can just sense it.” But not anymore. Remember that fight scene in “Reloaded” between Neo and the 100 Agent Smiths? Obviously, only one of those Agent Smiths is the real actor, Hugo Weaving—but you won’t be able to tell which one. The other 99, all digital creations, are three-dimensional, photo-realistic copies. They’re not just close approximations. They’re perfect. Their hair ripples, their faces contort, their bodies twist and fight. Now, if Gaeta and his team can create virtual humans, then they can create virtual anything: rooms, vehicles, you name it. And they have. And you’ll never know.
Virtual cinematography wipes out the line in the sand between what is real and what looks like the work of a computer. “Anyone who watches movies or TV or just lives their life is the ultimate expert in realism,” Gaeta says. “You know when things are fake. You can just sense it.” But not anymore. Remember that fight scene in “Reloaded” between Neo and the 100 Agent Smiths? Obviously, only one of those Agent Smiths is the real actor, Hugo Weaving—but you won’t be able to tell which one. The other 99, all digital creations, are three-dimensional, photo-realistic copies. They’re not just close approximations. They’re perfect. Their hair ripples, their faces contort, their bodies twist and fight. Now, if Gaeta and his team can create virtual humans, then they can create virtual anything: rooms, vehicles, you name it. And they have. And you’ll never know.
05-19-03, 01:44 PM
#18
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by Bruce_S
jdpatri-
That's what I've heard about the burly brawl, as well. It took two years to render - I enjoyed the scene but got a bit dizzy.. hehe
Anyways - As with any technology - give it a few years and the rendering process wouldn't take as long.
-bruce
jdpatri-
That's what I've heard about the burly brawl, as well. It took two years to render - I enjoyed the scene but got a bit dizzy.. hehe
Anyways - As with any technology - give it a few years and the rendering process wouldn't take as long.
-bruce
The ultimate fail safe.
....or something like that...
05-19-03, 01:48 PM
#19
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by Pants
Something that takes 2 years to render today will take 20 minutes a decade from now. NOTHING is un-copy-able. NOTHING
Something that takes 2 years to render today will take 20 minutes a decade from now. NOTHING is un-copy-able. NOTHING
In ten years, nobody's going to care about the joke... so it won't need to be made.
They're not saying it's uncopyable, they're saying its relevance will have been eclipsed by the time necessary to render this scene.
05-19-03, 01:55 PM
#21
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by jdpatri
Anyone out for a cheap knock off - like what was done to bullet time after that trick leaked - would never attempt to use that much time and energy for a cheap laugh. I think that's what they were referring to.
Anyone out for a cheap knock off - like what was done to bullet time after that trick leaked - would never attempt to use that much time and energy for a cheap laugh. I think that's what they were referring to.
05-19-03, 01:59 PM
#22
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by pixyboi
Well I doubt that anybody would put that much time into a parody of a scene.. if somebody wanted to the scene could easily be parodied by other means and it will have accomplished what it was meant to do, regardless of how good it looks or the methods used to create it.
Well I doubt that anybody would put that much time into a parody of a scene.. if somebody wanted to the scene could easily be parodied by other means and it will have accomplished what it was meant to do, regardless of how good it looks or the methods used to create it.
They just can't re-use the technology for cheap laughs... e.g. Bullet Time and the rotating camera.
The other means will have to be, at the very least, a little creative.
05-19-03, 02:12 PM
#23
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by jdpatri
Absolutely.
They just can't re-use the technology for cheap laughs... e.g. Bullet Time and the rotating camera.
The other means will have to be, at the very least, a little creative.
Absolutely.
They just can't re-use the technology for cheap laughs... e.g. Bullet Time and the rotating camera.
The other means will have to be, at the very least, a little creative.
05-19-03, 03:09 PM
#25
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Originally posted by pixyboi
Who need to use the technology to get the cheap laugh. Grab 100 actors, dress them all up the same and fail around madly like idiots, there's your parody, the cheap laugh has been had. Off the subject of parody, if any other movie really needed to do this it'd be all too simple, when they say a computer took 2 years to render, that's 2 years rendering time, in other words, they had 70 computers do it in 10 days. The problem is what other movie would call for 100 of the same guy to fight? They know that, and can claim that because it WON'T be copied that it's uncopyable.
Who need to use the technology to get the cheap laugh. Grab 100 actors, dress them all up the same and fail around madly like idiots, there's your parody, the cheap laugh has been had. Off the subject of parody, if any other movie really needed to do this it'd be all too simple, when they say a computer took 2 years to render, that's 2 years rendering time, in other words, they had 70 computers do it in 10 days. The problem is what other movie would call for 100 of the same guy to fight? They know that, and can claim that because it WON'T be copied that it's uncopyable.