Interesting point athosghost - but I read that quote a little differently.

The unconscious level refers to them being hooked up into the Matrix, as we see it from the first film. Within the Matrix they are given the option of choice through everyday affairs, thereby offering 99% of the humans satisfaction through (perceived) choice.

On the other hand are the 1% that need more than choice to accept the program. It is these individuals that would "awake" from the Matrix and be released into Zion.

Nuff - you make an excellent observation. Sorry for my misunderstanding. Whether or not that was good luck that Tank awoke or support for a Matrix in a Matrix theory, it leaves us guessing. I can't wait for November.....

if there was a matrix inside a matrix why would the agent's need Cypher? they could just take over anyone they wanted to in whichever system. unless the agents don't have access to the zion matrix in which case they couldn't order sentinel attacks

Who said the agents could control the sentinals?

they can't "control" them but they can order sentinel attacks meaning they have to have some link to them

Deploy the Sentinels, order the attack, etc......

My belief is that the Agents are only a part of the "inner" matrix, the matrix described in Matrix 1. Hence they are unaware that the "real world" is a matrix as well. They have been programmed to do a job and they are doing it, that's all there is to it.

Someone made a comment about us wanting things to make sense now. I agree, in 6 months we may all change our views, i'm only speculating on what I do know with the knowledge that it may be quite wrong. :)

Good point Nuff. We're all just specualting. ARRRGGHHH there is no spoon there is no spoon there is no spoon there is no spoon

There is no MiaM!!

The 'real world' is REAL!

(of course, this is my opinion)

Of course the real world is real…but that doesn’t mean that Zion is the real world. While I don’t subscribe 100% to the Matrix in a Matrix theory, it would make sense that the machines would create an artificial reality to control the 1% who do not buy into the matrix—much safer to provide an alternative simulation for the minority than to free humans who might bring down the Matrix.

If Zion is revealed to be an extension of the Matrix, I would expect that revelation to come early in the next installment and for there to be a twist behind the actual purpose of the Matrix and the nature of the real world.

My 2c.

Think of zion as the back up battery that the machines have incase the matrix fails for some reason. they keep that battery in check and limit how much energy they have to fall back on every so often when that back up becomes a risk.

the real world is real. it's not a matrix in matrix type of thing.

Hopefully my headache will be over in six months.

Interesting point. I hadn't considered that. The counsel may know about Zions unavoidable destruction so they are interested in the One succeeding to carry on the next Zion. Hmmm.... will have to think on that one. There are 12 seats in the counsels chamber... half the number of founders. Of course, that may not mean squat.

Re: Re: discuss
 

Interesting...let's keep this going. It seemingly works perfectly with a Zion populatin of 250,000. If 99.8% of the population except the program, then .2% reject it. .002 x .002 x 250,000 = 1. Seemingly perfect. The only problem is the architect's comment that "nearly 99%" accept it. This would suggest a rounded number between 98.5% and 99.4%. I don't think a program so bound by "parameters of perfection" would round down from 99.8%...he would most likely say nearly 100%. This then goes against the matrix in a matrix idea as anything more than .2% would mean more than one freed from the matrix in the matrix......

I had some time to think over the irony of Tank getting back up to kill Cypher before Neo is unplugged. For those that believe the Matrix in a Matrix theory - this would mean that Neo was the one - that was why Tank arose. The machines of course do not want the "One" killed.

But at the time when this scene happens in the first film - Neo had just gone to see the Oracle. He was told that he wasn't the "One". As we learn from the second film - in order for a human to make it to the source - he must truly be the "One". From defeating the Merovingian, to rescuing the keymaker, to making it to the floor with no stairs or windows. All of this while being chased by rogue agents, programs, and legit agents. Other freed minds such as Morpheus and Trinity are undoubtedly skilled, but they wouldn't have been able to make it through this barrage. So back to the point. Neo wasn't the "One" when Cypher was killed. Just as the Oracle stated - he was "waiting on something, another life, who knows." Had Neo actually been unplugged - he would have died - he had not yet discovered what he was. Neo would have been very close to being the "One", but not close enough.

Tank getting up was just lucky for Neo's sake. There is no Matrix in a Matrix.

Interesting theory, but I dont agree with you about Tank. Whether or not Neo was the One at that point in time is irrelavent. He (Neo) was waiting for something, but when the Oracle states "your next life" shes teasing him. I dont think she meant it litterally. It is because Neo is the One Tank got up. If you watch the entire movie (the first Matrix) you'll notice a lot of the crew have their own awakening as to whether or not Neo is the One.

Mouse - Watching Neo fight Morpheous.
Cypher- Getting killed by Tank.
Tank- When he (Neo) saved Morpheous, and Trinity from the helicopter as it crashes into the builiding.
Trinity- After saving Morpheous her dialouge in the subway.
Morpheous- After he was saved by Neo, and watching him get up after he "died".

Remember what Morpheous said about the Oracle. "Try not to think of it in terms of right or wrong...she is a guide, she will help you find the path."

"Your 5 predecessors were, BY DESIGN, based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One."

What does this mean "by design"? as in: emotion is a natural part of the design of humanity? OR: the Ones were designed by the Architect/Machines?

I have a better theory: Cypher didn't fry him good enough.

It's in my belief that the previous ones were set to care for all humanity. What makes Neo different is that he loves only one - Trinity. Making his choice to save her rather than Zion different from the previous 5. Which is what leads me to believe that the Architect is toying with Neo in his choice to save Trinity.

I still dont buy the MiaM theory. To those who do: what if in Revolutions, Neo leads the humans out of the Zion matrix into a new world, how will we know if THAT world is real? What if there are thousands of Matrices?

If it is MiaM, it would just be very unsatisfying and frustrating for me. What was it all for then? Just to leave one Matrix to enter another?

Intresting Reading
 

Is it then possible that .01% of the freed 'Zionists' even question that Zion is real? Is it possible that this .01% could then 'wake up' from Zion and actually enter the 'Real World?' I also have another theory on this matter. It involves not a matrix in a matrix, rather 5 matrices in a matrix:

Each matrix starts at the time where the old one left off. The robot wars happened in the real world, and they won. So they put us in a virtual reality world. That is the birth of the first matrix. The matrix was created from the robots being created, and the robots were created from evolutions in technology. So, while us humans are inside the matrix, we make evolutions in technology, and we make robots in the matrix. And so the same thing happens as what happened in the real world - the robots beat us in the next robot wars within the matrix. So, they make a virtual reality world to suck off our energy within the matrix.

That is why neo can stop the sentinels.

Thats not to say, that when Neo "went through" Smith, there program coding somehow mixmatched, and Neo got part of Smith, and Smith got part of neo. After all, isn't that why Smith is able to copy himself, and why in Revolutions it shows Smith "flying" like Neo does in the trailer?

The Screens
 

When I first watched the film I was sure that the screens represented other incarnations of the meeting between the Architect and Neo. it seemed odd to me that He'd be dressed exactly the same and I was kind of disappointed in the way it was handled.

Then with some thinking and reading I came to the conclusion that the screens represented postulated choices that he could make in the moment. That seemed more elegant a way to consider them.

Then I watched the film again.

If you listened to and watch the screens during this portion you will notice that several 'versions' of neo have interesting lines "Third?" and I think one says "Fourth?"

This leads me back to the idea that they are representations of earlier interactions. Which could mean that this is simpler that folks are talking about. Neo is always The One, and he always saves Trinity (notice that all 'versions' of Neo move to the left door at the end of their conversation).

Re: The Screens
 

Your on the right track but missedd the mark by the end. The other monitors are the previous incarnations of the One Youll notice the others react differently when the Architect says something to Neo, but it focuses on him when he says...

"Either no one knows, or no one ever told me"

It focuses on him when he says that because the other "Ones" were either in sever denail or flipping the Architect off, and in some cases both. Showing you that he is different from the previous 5. The monitors follwo Neo to the door to save Trinity because this is the choice HEhas made. The previous 5 choose to save Zion.

Then why were more than 6 different images of Neo on the monitors at once? Remember, there have been only six versions of The One.

I'd like to think the monitors displayed each of the 5 at different points in the conversation.

The images on screen were different choices Neo could have made and different answers he could have responded to the questions with. Notice how all of them say "********" at the same time. Denial was the most obvious reaction out of neo and so all the different choices of answers neo could have said were the same.

That's my interpretation, too.
Also notice how, several times, the camera will zoom in on a specific monitor and then that image of Neo becomes the one who comments or answers, thereby illustrating the choice that he has made.

The monitors all show Neo heading for the right door, as, by that point, there is only one choice he can make.