Does it really matter if the Jedi and Republic discover the Clone Army or not? The way I see it, had they not discovered it, the Trade Federation could always have made use of the clones and the droids to defeat the Republic, with Palpatine directing the TF as Sidious, he gets complete power that way as well.

He's playing both sides, he doesn't care if the TF or the Republic are the victors as either way he becomes Emperor. He just twists every event in his favor to achieve his goal.

Of course Palpatine started a chain of events that led to the Jedi to find out about the clone army.

Out of all the bounty hunters in the universe, why else would he assign Jango Fett to assasinate Amidala? The very same bounty hunter who the is the basis of the clone army. He knows the Jedi will investigate and eventually be led to Jango who happens to reside on Kamino.

I think he does care.

This way, he is able to use the Republic's existing infrastructure. If he were use the secessionists to conquer the Republic, it would have likely resulted in war that would have decimated the resources of the Republic and it's most powerful worlds. The war would have been brought to Coruscant and the seats of power.

This way, he gets to expand his pre-existing power-base and take the war away from the seats of power.

There's also a psychological factor, as well. The populace would be more willing to rise up against an external dictatorship than it would a "home-grown" dictatorship.

I'm unsure what kind of military structure the Republic has, other than the Jedi Knights. If they did have some kind of pre-existing military, then it would easier to establish a dictatorship WITHIN that military structure than external to it. Otherwise, you would have to deal with a hostile military.

I really doubt that the Republic has any kind of meaningful military presence, though. Events in TPM seemed to indicate that the individual worlds are responsible for their own defense, and in AOTC, they need a to create or find an army to counter the threats of the secessionists.

One ironic thing I note in the prequels is that by the time of "A New Hope," the Republic (the good guys in the prequels) has become the Empire, and the secessionists (the "bad guys" in the prequels) have seemingly become the Rebel Alliance.

Three reasons to disagree with your assumption:

First using real world history, it's never been the concern of megalomaniac dictators seeking power to try and preserve infrastructure.

Second, I haven't seen a single battle in Ep. I or Ep. II that has done any significant damage to the planet's infrastructure. Naboo was unscathed in it's battle. And none of the battles on Geonosis seemed to do any structural damage.

Three, Palpatine is building a weapon that will destroy planets. To me that indicates he's not concerned about preserving infrastructure but gaining power.

Since we're comming up on one year mark since Ep. 2 was released, and I miss the Ep. 2 Forum, I wanted to start a discussion on Ep. 2 and see where it goes. If you want to Lucas bash you can, but if all you have is some dumb argument about a plot hole or something then eat my nuts.

I watched Ep.2 again last weekend. I think this was about my 5th time seeing it. I curled up with a six pack and a pack of smokes and watched it nice and loud. And I must say I REALLY LIKED IT! It's better than Jedi...that's for sure!!!

I think it's exciting and holds up to repeate viewings, something Ep. I does not do at all (there are chunks in there that are downright boring on repeat viewing). It's colorfull, fun, has great sound, Portman's sexy, Obi-wan's great, Christianson sucks (but I do see that Lucas was going for a Rebel Without A Cause thing because the kid looks a lot like James Dean).

Bottom Line: I like it. Anyone have anything to add?

I allready have something to add. It's fun to rewatch this to figure out what's going on with this Sipho Dious. Is he the emperor? If so why do other Jedis know him and say he's dead? Is he Tyranus? I honestly don't know. And what's to be made of hearing Qui-Gon scream for that one moment.

I hope it all pays off real cool in Ep. 3

putting on the flame retard suit

i'll watch it again after i finish the BTTF trilogy, but i think i liked phantom better. the high points of clones for me were the car chase and the clone war and for my money, the pod race and darth maul beat them every time. i'm still not sure what to make of yoda with a lightsaber...or christopher lee for that matter, and the "love story" was so absurdly over the top and cheesy in my opinion. i didn't like anakin, though i'm not sure i was supposed to.

but i will give you this, clones was a hell of a ride. a lot of action between hazy plot and horrid romance. and there was a lot that i enjoyed, like the boba fett angle, the jedi kids, and obi wan in general. anyway, you've inspired me to give it another spin this week, so maybe it will grow on me.

Freudian slip?

nah, i don't think he wants to sleep with his mother...he just can't type.

forgot to mention that i found 3PO every bit as annoying as jar jar and my eyes just rolled when R2 busted out his "rocket legs".

Not as good as the original trilogy, but better than crapfest Menace.

I actually couldn't believe my eyes in Phantom Menace - I was like, ok, any second now, the Star Wars I grew up loving would show up again - and it never did. Perhaps you should go over Theforce.net and post the threads there.

I liked it when he flys. Come on, he's R2, he's a swiss army knife w/ a brain, he can do anything. The movie is supposed to be fun, and that's fun.

besides, those rocket legs were suppose to be in episode I.

My like of this movie has dropped with repeated viewings. I definitely overrated it the first time.

1. Empire
2. AOTC
3. Jedi
4. ANH
5. TPM

Now I'd put them:

1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. ANH
4. AOTC
5. TPM


I love the action. I love the political intrigue and the slimy way Palapatine "played both sided" (or really created both sides) to get power. I loved the begin of Anakins decent to the dark side. The scene where he's with his mother, and when he tells Padme about it afterwards are the only two place Christensen is good in the movie IMO.

However, the acting and lame dialogue just kill it for me.

I still like it, as Star Wars is my favorite movie series, but it's enough for me to dump it below the Classic trilogy. I know the CT doesn't have stellar acting or dialogue either, but it's much better than the two new movies IMO.

The last hour or so of the movie is killer -- from the point they're carting Anakin and whatshername into the arena. Great action sequence.

Unfortunately, everything leading up to it pretty much ass.

The proceedings are marred by too much CGI, wooden acting, and a perfunctory script.

I'm not going to blame the actors, because Ewan and Natalie have proven that they have chops in other projects, but I have a feeling they 1) had no idea what the hell was going on in the story, and 2) spent too much time in front of blue screens and having conversations with golf balls on sticks. They're just spitting out lines and not actually reacting to anything. Lucas seems to want to treat live actors like a special effect element that he can manipulate on a computer and it shows.

Wait a minute...are you trying to tell me that a Star Wars film actually has bad "acting and lame dialogue"?? Noooo way.

Personally, when I watched it on opening day, I thought it was mediocre, tons better than Menace, but just mediocre. It was worth the money, don't get me wrong, but It just felt somewhat empty. I watched it again a few weeks later with some friends, and while some scenes had some excellent action, my view point stays.

I don't care to see it again for a while. . .who knows, maybe if I see the DVD for sale somewhere used or something I'll buy it.

Return of the Jedi is slightly better than Episode II, IMO. It didn't flow as well as the first 2 in the original trilogy, but overall I'd say it was pretty good, as it still had numerous memorable scenes. . .and I for one am not afraid to say I love those damn Ewoks.

I too enjoyed episode 2 more than episode 1. I must admit on DVD I fast-forwarded the cheesy love scenes but overall it was great!

This may sound silly but everytime I watch a Star Wars movie it's like I'm 9 years old again, just when I watched the original Star Wars (episode 4). It appeals to the kid in me and I try to watch it through the eyes of the kid I was (I'm now 34). But I must say even the "kid" in me couldn't stand Jar Jar...

In episode 2 I liked the inside jokes for example when Obi tells Anakin "I swear one day you'll be the death of me" and Anakin responds something like " Well Master, never"

Episode 2 and the other Star Wars movies are Popcorn movies (or 6 pack and cigarettes movies hehe) and they should be viewed as such.

Now if episode 3 can end in a REAL violent downer I will be pleased!!

Jedi better than episode 2 ???? NOOOOOO!!!!

Ok those Ewoks might have been more interesting if some of them had a dark side maybe...

And I'm glad that the Ewoks in Jedi allowed some children and midgets to get some work in the industry

Well, in my opinion 90% of the dialogue is fine, in both prequels. It's the 10% that cause people to wipe the entire film with that brush. Take away 3-4 scenes from each movie, and the dialogue is good. As for the acting, I don't know what you saw but there was some good performances in my opinion. Ewan McGegor was solid as hell in AOTC. Christopher Lee and Ian McDiarmid gave good performances as well. Hayden Christensen I though gave the perfect performance for an angst ridden teenager that can't control or let go of his emotions. Liam Neeson gave a very good performance in TPM. Even Jimmy Smits delivered his 4 lines of dialogue very well. Sam Jackson is, well, the same as he is in most of his movies. He's Sam Jackson. But I think they should've gone with a lesser known actor. But that's just my humble opinion.

Oh, I agree with you Pants. I too think AOTC is a very good film with a few flaws. But then I've always felt that way. I personally believe 10 years from now most people will look back on these films more fondly than they do now. If these films didn't have the Star Wars name on them, they'd probably be thought of better. But people expect the best when it has the Star Wars name on it, so they're more critical. Not to mention many people carry a lot of baggage where these films are concerned.

By the way, just for the record, Jedi rules.

I agree that in about 10 years these prequels will looked more fondly of instead of the much complaints they are getting now.

The visual effects are pretty amazing, even though they make the actors look somewhat stiff and not as natural as they did in the OT.

Now for Attack of the Clones which I liked instantly when it came out in theaters, and now watching the dvd many times its still great. Yoda and Dooku fight, Obi-Wan and Jango fight, the arena battle, and Padmé all are great "Star Wars" fun IMHO.

Yes, Jedi does rule, Terrell.

I agree. You'll notice I said I still liked AOTC. I like it quite a bit actually, same with TPM.

I meant the acting and dialogue killed it in the sense that it keeps me from enjoying them as much as the classic trilogy, which while far from having great dialog and acting where leagues above the 2 new movies IMO.

As for the acting in AOTC. I though McGregor was ok, and Lee was great. Christensen was only good in the 2 scenes I mentioned above IMO. In other scenes he was mediocre or terrible. Portman was pretty bland as well.

But this is to be expected as you're not going to get good performances in front of a blue screen and Lucas doesn't seem to excel at getting great performances out of actors in general.

But as others have said, Star Wars are escapist popcorn films, and you shouldn't go in expectant an oscar winning script or acting, and I don't. All I was giving was my reasons for rating TPM and AOTC below the classic trilogy.

All 5 movies are great escapists flicks and among my all time favorites, the 2 new ones are just a little below the first 3 IMO.

The dialogue in AOTC was never good; at its best its passable. The acting was generally about equal to that of a cheap made for tv skin flick because it was unbelievably stiff. I didn't for one minute believe they were actual people talking.

I could give you all the reasons why i hated the movie, but they would probably be the same reasons why those who liked the film liked it, so i probably won't bother. I just figured the thread had been too positive and i had to inject a little negativity.

Yeah, and that's your opinion, and you'd be wrong.

No disrespect, but it's just as well. I couldn't care less why you hated the film. Don't like it, don't waste your time talking about it.

I have to say.. folks complaining about the dialogue of any star wars film being anything but cheesy surprises me. thats what the films are. deal with it..