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United behind the X

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View Poll Results: Will X2:X-Men United be any good?
I'll see it, and it will be AWESOME!!!
I'll see it, but it's gonna suck.
I'm not seeing that POC movie...
I'll go...if Twikoff pays.
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

United behind the X

Old 04-21-03, 07:32 AM
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United behind the X

Want to wager a guess on how the new X-Men movie's going to be?

I think it looks much better than the first one.

*DarkestPhoenix cannot be held responsible for any injury or hurt feelings which may be caused by the spoilers which may or may not be contained within this post*

Actually, since the original X-Men movie was the 'first' modern Marvel movie (besides Blade, I think...but they left their name off that flick initially) I thought it was absolutely teriffic. Looking back, I think it was the worst of the 'Big 3'.

Daredevil was best...
then Spidey...
then X-Men.

For me, anyways, it all boils down to comic book correllations: I want the movie to contain characters AS SIMILIAR TO THEIR comic book counterparts as possible. That's...it.

Daredevil, sans the murder in the subway, was spitting image. This character difference was forgiven, though, because he provided REASONS for being different. (Pursuing justice one way or another) I can relate, and I can buy that.

Spider-Man was quite a bit different from his character. I liked the visualization of how he learned to web-swing, and how it looked on screen. I hated the organic web-shooters. I think Spidey's "half-scientist, half-superhuman" persona is part of what makes him so loveable. By taking away his created shooters, you take away some of the perceived intelligence he possesses. Also, his 'weaknesses', running out of fluid, shooters breaking are removed. His added characteristics, non-conductive/superstrength web fluid, etc. will never grace the screen. That angered me. But not as much as the fact that he was not funny whatsoever. He told a MAXIMUM of four jokes, only one of which I found funny. That is not Spider-Man.

X-Men, like I said, reminiscing, was HORRIBLE as far as any sort of correlaries are concerned. No one, save Magneto could fly, even though Jean, Ororo and Rogue should have been able to. Wolverine was pussified. A man who can take beatings and fly through a windshield suddenly gets knocked out cold by a log. Stupid. Magneto's helmet belongs to Juggernaut. Rogue does not have a name. Jean is not a doctor. Senator Kelly is NOT a mutant, and he does NOT die. Toad is NOT cool, he's a dorky lackey. Mystique doesn't have scales. Sabretooth was an idiot. I don't give a damn, give my boys their costumes. If you can make Spidey look cool, make DD look bad-a$$, then you can make the X-Men look awesome, too. It sucks when your least favorite character, Scott Summers, is the only one they got exactly right. Well, him and Xavier.

DESPITE all of this, I have high hopes for the second movie. I think it will rock compared to the first, and I was hoping to get some feedback. What do the DVDIntellectuals think? I couldn't find any other threads on the Great X...is it that far under the radar?

Just curious.....
Old 04-21-03, 11:07 AM
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I could care less about all the fanboy b****** that seems to get people's panties in a wad and if the movie is true to the ESSENCE of the characters rather than the niggling continuity details that, trust me, 99% of moviegoers could care less about. In that regard, X-Men 1 worked pretty well for me despite a horrible last act. Who the hell cares if Rogue doesn't have a name in the comic books or if Spider-Man's web shooters aren't organic? I've read comic books for 20+ years and think Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man was as close to the essence of the character as you could get, once you start ignoring surface nonsense like organic webshooters and whether enough jokes were told. Feh. Nitpicky critiques like this are why I really need to stop reading chat boards about comic book movies, you apparently can't satisfy anybody on them...
Old 04-21-03, 11:30 AM
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Darkest Phoenix: saying Daredevil was true to the comic sans the murder is like saying The Scarlet Letter with Demi Moore was a faithful adaptation of book sans almost everything except her wearing the letter.

DD had the look of the comic book down IMO, but the characters were way off track aside from Bullseye and Kingpin. Furthermore, the way they consistently blared the ST over every scene proved really distracting IMO.

Spidey was top notch as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I would have found Spider-Man having to deal with jammed web shooters kind of stupid on screen. Works in the comics, but not in movie plotlines. Also, why rag Spidey for not being funny? He seemed pretty amusing to me, but come one, I didn't go into Spider-Man wanting a stand-up comedy routine.

X-Men was great aside from a lack of action toward the end, which this one looks as though it will more than compensate for IMO. Wolvie was not much of a wuss IMO, and Sabertooth was a hired thug just following orders, not an idiot. Never cared much for Toad so it didn't bother me with him. Mystique, well, how would you know from reading the comics she doesn't have scales? It was never really stated. Overall, they got the characters more than right and Storm did do a bit of flying herself, and who says we won't see Rogue fly in future films?
Heck, a fanboy like yourself should know that Rogue didn't start out flying in the comics either, she got the ability as a permanent side-effect from draining another character of their powers.
Old 04-21-03, 12:12 PM
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Spider-Man and X-Men are about on equal footing on me, with Daredevil behind both. I used the be a comic book fan and X-Men didn't bother me one bit. The changes weren't severe, and the it does a great job conveying the rift and hate between humans and mutants. For me, the story was there and that's what matters.

As for Spider-Man and the web-shooters thing... the organic thing worked great in my opinion. I like Sam Raimi's explanation, that its hard to believe some kid in high school could create a better adhesive then large manufacturers like 3M. Although if you can believe getting bit by a radioactive spider gives you super powers, i guess it doesn't matter a whole lot. The wise-cracks were enough for me, not really a big deal.
Old 04-21-03, 12:15 PM
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Storm does fly in the first x-men movie.

In the comic Rogue could not fly and did not possess super strength initially. She absorbed those powers when she sucked someone dry. Her not flying and not being super strong is in keeping with the comic origins of the character. I haven't read any comics in years, i can't believe i remember that, heh.

I liked the first x-men movie, it was fun and as close as possible to the characters, given the constraints of the switch in medium.

Spider-man i hated. I was never a fan of the comic and the movie just bored me. I took that lesson to heart and skipped Daredevil. My disinterest in the character combined with Affleck makes me want to stay away from it.

Edit: Heh, i forgot to discuss the topic at hand. Personally i'm not sure about the new one, it seems to be going overboard with the new characters. I'm still hoping it will be good, although if Wolverine goes through the whole movie without stanbbing some g-men i'm going to be pissed. I loved the way Wolverine and Sabertooth slashed each other up in the first movie, so without Sabertooth (havent seen him in the trailers) Wolverine has to cut someone.

Last edited by Mourn; 04-21-03 at 12:19 PM.
Old 04-21-03, 12:46 PM
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I voted "I'm not seeing that POC movie..."

I still havn't bothered to see the first one. They look terrible.
Old 04-21-03, 02:22 PM
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I'm gonna see it, and I'm hoping that it'll be good.
Old 04-21-03, 03:01 PM
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The first movie did an incredible job of juggling a dozen characters and fleshing them out adequately. I didn't feel anyone was relegated to a "sidekick" role, except that the bad guys were pretty one-dimensional. This gives me faith in the new film, that it will be able to add new characters and explore the villains a bit more.
Old 04-21-03, 04:45 PM
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I am so there. I liked the first one and this one looks even better. I really can't wait to see Lady Deathstryke.
Old 04-21-03, 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by fumanstan
As for Spider-Man and the web-shooters thing... the organic thing worked great in my opinion. I like Sam Raimi's explanation, that its hard to believe some kid in high school could create a better adhesive then large manufacturers like 3M.
Actually, if I remember correctly, Peter Parker's FATHER (Who was also a scientist, as well as a spy) created the webbing, Pete just created the web-shooters. Organic DID work great, if you want to just steal an idea from someone. (Todd McFarlane, a la Venom/Symbiote storyline)

All right, if you guys want to classify Storm's "hovering" as flying, I'll buy that. Although the only time I want to see her hover is two miles up, in the middle of a friggin' blizzard.

Rogue didn't have her powers, true. She was also a bad guy.

Explain to me how, besides the Kingpin being black, and besides the murder, how Daredevil was 'completely different' than the comic book version??? I'm kind of a fan, and I thought it was represented VERY well. Well, the best, IMO.
Old 04-21-03, 08:51 PM
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Note: This is a tad protracted only because I have too much time on my hands today.

I didn't vote because there's no "I don't know, but what the hell." selection, but, you wanted feedback, right?

Originally posted by DarkestPhoenix
I think it looks much better than the first one.

For me, anyways, it all boils down to comic book correllations: I want the movie to contain characters AS SIMILIAR TO THEIR comic book counterparts as possible. That's...it.

DESPITE all of this, I have high hopes for the second movie. I think it will rock compared to the first, and I was hoping to get some feedback.
When you're talking about novel-to-movies, sure; for most genres, you can have to some extent the truest adaptations of storyline and/or characters. But you are talking about comics... Even I gave up small details because you'll NEVER have that in every case, every movie, every scene, etc. I don't know how you view things, but I see movie directors or screenwriters as newbies in the comicbook world who want to establish an alternate universe. Anyone who's a fan of comics knows how phucked up the alternate universes are; they can be ten-fold better than the original or the most contrived, melodramatic, nonsensical piece of ***** you've ever read/seen.

Daredevil, I skipped. Why? I cannot stand Ben Affleck--there's something special about him that triggers my gag reflexes. I just might... rent it if I'm drunk enough not to care about ANYTHING. (Hehe, Mourn, some people concur with you wholeheartedly on this point.) (-;

Spiderman, I personally thought that was a pretty good adaptation. While I was satisfied for the most part, the things that irked me were mostly little but wholly dismissible things. However, the one thing I can't forgive and loathe is Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane Watson? Hello? Maybe as GWEN STACY so they could actually kill her off and make that bathetic ending more tolerable and NATURAL... but, oh well. I loved the fact that Danny Elfman's score--reminiscent of Batman, brought forth the darkness of Sam Raimi's interpretation of the comic. Lacking humor? Well, look at Evil Dead, Army of Darkness, Quick and the Dead... you can see why Spiderman was truer to A form--if not the original form--than most of the other comicbook adaptations; the humor is subtle, ironic, and done in moderation. What works in a particular medium doesn't necessarily translate well to another; you can't spring on people typical Spidey quip in the movies and expect them to smirk or chuckle knowingly ad nauseum. Peter's humor in the movie was not LOL in your face stupid or corny, but *just enough of it* was used to convey the zeitgeist of the original series. I just love how it's not at ALL pretentious--actually, it seems surprisingly self-effacing--and just seeks to REtell a great story without transcending the original.

X-Men... this is a completely touchy subject. You open up a whole can of worms every time anyone slanders anything, plus the apparent dichotomy that's established: zealous purist vs. (apathetic) filmgoer. As a follower of the series and a variety of the offshoots, I refrained from watching this movie for as long as possible. I was already disappointed prior to its release and further discouraged by the rave reviews given by insipid readers of the comic. When I did get around to watching it--not by my own accord, I found most of the movie unremarkable and handful of things were salient--in a good way: Jean Grey, Wolverine, Professor X, and parts of Kamen's score.

First things first though: what bothered me? (Here goes...)
-Magneto, I think Ian McKellen is a brilliant actor, but I despised this role. The fact that the movie Magneto is physically old is incredibly distracting; it doesn't matter how well the lines were delivered, it was just too FAR from the X-Men that I knew to pull me into the movie.
-Rogue, age difference again... it's not bad enough that she has to be constantly distraught, emotionally/psychologically scarred, vacillating and confused, but she has to be a TEENAGER in this movie too? Okay, well, it's natural to see how all of these attributes are befitting for someone "SO young and SO traumatized", but whatever, Singer needed something BIG in the plot, so this was his take. Personally, I think that it was wearisome and not all that creative to take one of the most obvious, static (in the comics) sob story into something relatively dynamic (considering the original series). Not bitching, but elucidating... Rogue couldn't fly in this version because Singer made her a teen and made her latch onto Wolverine, thus removing a lot of poignant backstory.
-Mystique also never found, recruited, or INTERACTED with her (Rogue) soon enough to do anything or to get her to suck the powers and "life" out of Miss Marvel or Carol Danvers. This was bad imo because you could have a *****load of character development if you followed the original Chris Claremont setup, but no. Speaking of Mystique, she was annoying because she did nothing but play a scaled! lackey with NO finesse, no style, no CLOTHES, and barely any lines.
-Sabretooth was exactly what the actor is, a dumb, professional wrestler. Yes, he is blood-thirsty and has claws, but he's not suave, intelligent (ex-CIA like Mystique), nor does he even attempt to walk the fine line between maintaining sanity and giving into primal bloodlust.
-Halle Berry as Storm was surprisingly negligible in this movie for someone who's an "academy award winner"... but that's a different topic.
-Senator Kelly? Why was he even given such a big role?
-What gets me is that SO MUCH character dev, personas, and possibilities were discarded all for such a bathetic storyline. (And this has nothing to do with the budget because I don't give a flying phuck about the lack of a danger room et al.)
-The plot, the phucking plot! And it moved way too slowly!

Things I found tolerable:
-I never much cared for Scott Summers/Cyclops, but he was made a boy and a quasi-prick, so I was cool.
-Toad I didn't care for because that's all he is, a true lackey with no in depth backstory... but he (Ray Parks) reminded me distinctly of Morph from the original X-Men cartoons, so I was slightly discombobulated.
-The change of Jean Grey to a more cerebral scientist, yes, a doctor. If you can't wow everyone with psychic tricks galore, then you might as well show that she's an empathic and highly intelligent part of the force. With all of the drama in the comics, I found that it was refreshing to not see anything about the phoenix et al in the movie. The prolonged, soap opera melodrama and megalomania really became somewhat trite after some time. (see below for more on Jean Grey)

What was great:
-Professor X... what else can be said? Patrick Stewart was born for this role.
-Wolverine... who would have thought that Hugh Jackman would pull off such a great Wolverine? Pussified?* Contrary to Dark Phoenix's idea of what Wolverine should be, you can't always adhere to the comics... like Spiderman can't always crack a joke, be "really funny", et al. This physical change is one that I laud because if you want the Wolverine from the comics, you can't find much humanity with only a handful of one-liners and violent threats unless you see a hella lot of action. Again, it's the whole transition from comic to the bigscreen, what works on paper doesn't always translate well in the flesh.
*Minor Comic Spoilers:
If you've read the most recent Wolverine Origin, you can see how Hugh Jackman as "Logan" is nigh perfect!!!

-Jean Grey... I was impressed with Famke Janssen's take on this role. Hell, she made Jean Grey more of a reality-based character than something absurd, bland, support thing that is at the beck and call of everyone who needs a shoulder to cry on. Perhaps her take on the role has something to do with the fact that she knew next to nothing about the comic series, but I truly appreciated that she fleshed out the character is a good way. I think that had Famke been very familiar with Jean Grey's comicbook personality--and not just what was written in/for the script, she would have been disappointed to have been chosen for the role. Also, considering her past performances, the inherent confidence she possesses keeps Jean Grey's comic book tendency to waver from happening; heck, the light sexual tension/chemistry? between Jean and Wolverine was a cool bonus tho considering. Kudos to whomever casted Famke and Hugh.
-Michael Kamen's score was not at all mindblowing, but it did what it could to bring about the poignant nature of Wolverine and Rogue's bond. I can go on forever about music, but this is all I'll say.

This movie is like a horrible alternate universe (or fanfic piece?) come alive with monetary backing and gratuitous CGI. I seriously don't know how Singer is going to bring out these other characters into the fore since he had such a grand time screwing with near everything from the start. Makes you wonder what sort of pathetic backhistory Nightcrawler will have. Makes you wonder if Singer will have the nerve to stick Graydon Creed in this movie and have things unfold in a REMOTELY coherent fashion. I've read as little as possible pertaining to this forthcoming movie, but I will pay to see this matinee only because of the pathetic need to see how the few positive things carry over.

Originally posted by bahist17
I am so there. I liked the first one and this one looks even better. I really can't wait to see Lady Deathstryke.
Lady Deathstryke deserves a loud "EHHH........." I like Kelly Hu, I hated the misuse of her and others in Cradle 2 the Grave, but in a role that's in the hands of Bryan Singer... Okay, no more, I need to eat.

Last edited by FHaggis; 04-22-03 at 04:09 AM.
Old 04-21-03, 09:21 PM
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The Nightcrawler teleporting they showed in the Fox special the other night looked SWEET.
Old 04-21-03, 09:24 PM
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Daredevil wasn't very good! X-Men was favorite among Daredevil, Spider-Man. I liked Blade and Blade 2 a lot though.
Old 04-21-03, 11:14 PM
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X gonna give it to ya.
Old 04-21-03, 11:31 PM
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daredevil in the comics is the perfect alter boy, so him killing in the first 20 minutes threw me for a loop and really destroyed any comic to film ability it had. waaay out of character no matter how "justified" it was..

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