AFI's 100 Heroes and Villains
06-03-03, 10:26 PM
#52
Member
Unless I just plain missed it, I cannot believe Michael Myers
did not make the TOP 50. Easily should have been at least
top 10. Just off the top of my head, that is one of the biggest
omissions.......
DW
did not make the TOP 50. Easily should have been at least
top 10. Just off the top of my head, that is one of the biggest
omissions.......
DW
06-03-03, 10:28 PM
#53
DVD Talk Hero
Originally posted by dwells
Unless I just plain missed it, I cannot believe Michael Myers
did not make the TOP 50. Easily should have been at least
top 10. Just off the top of my head, that is one of the biggest
omissions.......
DW
Unless I just plain missed it, I cannot believe Michael Myers
did not make the TOP 50. Easily should have been at least
top 10. Just off the top of my head, that is one of the biggest
omissions.......
DW
06-03-03, 10:33 PM
#54
DVD Talk Limited Edition
My biggest surprises.....
Bond not #1
No votes for either Rambo or Skywalker as heroes
No Jason on villians list
Darn good show, though. Makes me want to go back and re-watch a few old faves
Bond not #1
No votes for either Rambo or Skywalker as heroes
No Jason on villians list
Darn good show, though. Makes me want to go back and re-watch a few old faves
06-04-03, 01:14 AM
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AFI lists always leave out a no brainer picks.
No surprise they left out 1999's Agent Smith, remember they left
Titanic off their All-Time movie list. The only movie to have made 1 billion dollars.
No surprise they left out 1999's Agent Smith, remember they left
Titanic off their All-Time movie list. The only movie to have made 1 billion dollars.
06-04-03, 06:14 AM
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OK, don't agree with Atticus from To Kill a Mockingbird for number 1, but love seeing Darth Vader and 007 up near the top.
Link
TOP 50 HEROES
1. Atticus Finch, To Kill a Mockingbird
2. Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark
3. James Bond, Dr. No
4. Rick Blaine, Casablanca
5. Will Kane, High Noon
6. Clarice Starling, Silence of the Lambs
7. Rocky Balboa, Rocky
8. Ellen Ripley, Aliens
9. George Bailey, It's a Wonderful Life
10. T. E. Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia
11. Jefferson Smith, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
12. Tom Joad, The Grapes of Wrath
13. Oskar Schindler, Schindler's List
14. Han Solo, Star Wars
15. Norma Rae Webster, Norma Rae
16. Shane, Shane
17. Harry Callahan, Dirty Harry
18. Robin Hood, Adventures of Robin Hood
19. Virgil Tibbs, In the Heat of the Night
20. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid
21. Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi
22. Spartacus, Spartacus
23. Terry Malloy, On the Waterfront
24. Thelma Dickerson & Louise Sawyer, Thelma & Louise
25. Lou Gehrig, The Pride of the Yankees
26. Superman, Superman
27. Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein, All the President's Men
28. Juror #8, 12Angry Men
29. Gen. George Patton, Patton
30. Luke Jackson, Cool Hand Luke
31. Erin Brockovich, Erin Brockovich
32. Philip Marlowe, The Big Sleep
33. Marge Gunderson, Fargo
34. Tarzan, Tarzan the Ape Man
35. Alvin York, Sergeant York
36. Rooster Cogburn, True Grit
37. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars
38. The Tramp, City Lights
39. Lassie, Lassie Come Home
40. Frank Serpico, Serpico
41. Arthur Chipping, Goodbye, Mr. Chips
42. Father Edward, Boys Town
43. Moses, The Ten Commandments
44. Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle, The French Connection
45. Zorro, The Mark of Zorro
46. Batman, Batman
47. Karen Silkwood, Silkwood
48. Terminator, Terminator 2: Judgment Day
49. Andrew Beckett, Philadelphia
50. General Maximus Decimus Meridus, Gladiator
TOP 50 VILLAINS
1. Dr. Hannibal Lecter, The Silence of the Lambs
2. Norman Bates, Psycho
3. Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Wicked Witch of the West, The Wizard of Oz
5. Nurse Ratched, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
6. Mr. Potter, It's a Wonderful Life
7. Alex Forrest, Fatal Attraction
8. Phyllis Dietrichson, Double Indemnity
9. Regan MacNeil, The Exorcist
10. The Queen, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
11. Michael Corleone, The Godfather Part II
12. Alex De Large, Clockwork Orange
13. HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey
14. The Alien, Alien
15. Amon Goeth, Schindler's List
16. Noah Cross, Chinatown
17. Annie Wilkes, Misery
18. The Shark, Jaws
19. Captain Bligh, Mutiny on the Bounty
20. Man, Bambi
21. Mrs. John Iselin, The Manchurian Candidate
22. Terminator, The Terminator
23. Eve Harrington, All About Eve
24. Gordon Gekko, Wall Street
25. Jack Torrance, The Shining
26. Cody Jarrett, White Heat
27. Martians, The War of the Worlds
28. Max Cady, Cape Fear
29. Reverend Harry Powell, The Night of the Hunter
30. Travis Bickle, Taxi Driver
31. Mrs. Danvers, Rebecca
32. Clyde Barrow & Bonnie Parker, Bonnie and Clyde
33. Count Dracula, Dracula
34. Dr. Szell, Marathon Man
35. J.J. Hunsecker, Sweet Smell of Success
36. Frank Booth, Blue Velvet
37. Harry Lime, The Third Man
38. Caesar Enrico Bandello, Little Caesar
39. Cruella De Vil, One Hundred and One Dalmations
40. Freddy Krueger, A Nightmare on Elm Street
41. Joan Crawford, Mommie Dearest
42. Tom Powers, The Public Enemy
43. Regina Giddens, The Little Foxes
44. Baby Jane Hudson, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane
45. The Joker, Batman
46. Hans Gruber, Die Hard
47. Tony Camonte, Scarface
48. Verbal Kint, The Usual Suspects
49. Auric Goldfinger, Goldfinger
50. Alonzo Harris, Training Day
1. Atticus Finch, To Kill a Mockingbird
2. Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark
3. James Bond, Dr. No
4. Rick Blaine, Casablanca
5. Will Kane, High Noon
6. Clarice Starling, Silence of the Lambs
7. Rocky Balboa, Rocky
8. Ellen Ripley, Aliens
9. George Bailey, It's a Wonderful Life
10. T. E. Lawrence, Lawrence of Arabia
11. Jefferson Smith, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
12. Tom Joad, The Grapes of Wrath
13. Oskar Schindler, Schindler's List
14. Han Solo, Star Wars
15. Norma Rae Webster, Norma Rae
16. Shane, Shane
17. Harry Callahan, Dirty Harry
18. Robin Hood, Adventures of Robin Hood
19. Virgil Tibbs, In the Heat of the Night
20. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid
21. Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi
22. Spartacus, Spartacus
23. Terry Malloy, On the Waterfront
24. Thelma Dickerson & Louise Sawyer, Thelma & Louise
25. Lou Gehrig, The Pride of the Yankees
26. Superman, Superman
27. Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein, All the President's Men
28. Juror #8, 12Angry Men
29. Gen. George Patton, Patton
30. Luke Jackson, Cool Hand Luke
31. Erin Brockovich, Erin Brockovich
32. Philip Marlowe, The Big Sleep
33. Marge Gunderson, Fargo
34. Tarzan, Tarzan the Ape Man
35. Alvin York, Sergeant York
36. Rooster Cogburn, True Grit
37. Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars
38. The Tramp, City Lights
39. Lassie, Lassie Come Home
40. Frank Serpico, Serpico
41. Arthur Chipping, Goodbye, Mr. Chips
42. Father Edward, Boys Town
43. Moses, The Ten Commandments
44. Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle, The French Connection
45. Zorro, The Mark of Zorro
46. Batman, Batman
47. Karen Silkwood, Silkwood
48. Terminator, Terminator 2: Judgment Day
49. Andrew Beckett, Philadelphia
50. General Maximus Decimus Meridus, Gladiator
TOP 50 VILLAINS
1. Dr. Hannibal Lecter, The Silence of the Lambs
2. Norman Bates, Psycho
3. Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back
4. The Wicked Witch of the West, The Wizard of Oz
5. Nurse Ratched, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
6. Mr. Potter, It's a Wonderful Life
7. Alex Forrest, Fatal Attraction
8. Phyllis Dietrichson, Double Indemnity
9. Regan MacNeil, The Exorcist
10. The Queen, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
11. Michael Corleone, The Godfather Part II
12. Alex De Large, Clockwork Orange
13. HAL 9000, 2001: A Space Odyssey
14. The Alien, Alien
15. Amon Goeth, Schindler's List
16. Noah Cross, Chinatown
17. Annie Wilkes, Misery
18. The Shark, Jaws
19. Captain Bligh, Mutiny on the Bounty
20. Man, Bambi
21. Mrs. John Iselin, The Manchurian Candidate
22. Terminator, The Terminator
23. Eve Harrington, All About Eve
24. Gordon Gekko, Wall Street
25. Jack Torrance, The Shining
26. Cody Jarrett, White Heat
27. Martians, The War of the Worlds
28. Max Cady, Cape Fear
29. Reverend Harry Powell, The Night of the Hunter
30. Travis Bickle, Taxi Driver
31. Mrs. Danvers, Rebecca
32. Clyde Barrow & Bonnie Parker, Bonnie and Clyde
33. Count Dracula, Dracula
34. Dr. Szell, Marathon Man
35. J.J. Hunsecker, Sweet Smell of Success
36. Frank Booth, Blue Velvet
37. Harry Lime, The Third Man
38. Caesar Enrico Bandello, Little Caesar
39. Cruella De Vil, One Hundred and One Dalmations
40. Freddy Krueger, A Nightmare on Elm Street
41. Joan Crawford, Mommie Dearest
42. Tom Powers, The Public Enemy
43. Regina Giddens, The Little Foxes
44. Baby Jane Hudson, Whatever Happened to Baby Jane
45. The Joker, Batman
46. Hans Gruber, Die Hard
47. Tony Camonte, Scarface
48. Verbal Kint, The Usual Suspects
49. Auric Goldfinger, Goldfinger
50. Alonzo Harris, Training Day
06-04-03, 08:05 AM
#61
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Originally posted by wm lopez
AFI lists always leave out a no brainer picks.
No surprise they left out 1999's Agent Smith, remember they left
Titanic off their All-Time movie list. The only movie to have made 1 billion dollars.
AFI lists always leave out a no brainer picks.
No surprise they left out 1999's Agent Smith, remember they left
Titanic off their All-Time movie list. The only movie to have made 1 billion dollars.
06-04-03, 08:22 AM
#62
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Groucho
It seems that they stocked the Top 10 with chicks in the name of Political Correctness.
It seems that they stocked the Top 10 with chicks in the name of Political Correctness.
I was thinking it had to be either Scarlett, Skywalker, or Atticus when they got down to #1. Well, that was all I could think of that hadn't been listed...and they went with Atticus. Great choice!
I liked most of the choices, actually, but it's still pretty dumb that Alonzo Harris makes the list of Villains over Scar, who's not even nominated. I know, it's just one of those AFI things.
Oh, and I wouldn't so easily lump Travis Bickle and Michael Corleone into either character pile. There's really a fuzzy line between hero and villain among those. And like if "Maximus" is a hero because he kills evil people like a f**ker, why can't they be? They're not good people, but "villain" trivializes both of them.
06-04-03, 09:26 AM
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No Kirk or Khan? There's plenty there I'm not familiar with, so I'll have to check some of those out. I figured Star Wars would rank high when I saw the ads on TV. Did they discuss what a "villan" or "hero" is? Or did they just leave it open?
So, how much money does AFI make form these lists? When is the list for the top 100 remakes coming out?
So, how much money does AFI make form these lists? When is the list for the top 100 remakes coming out?
06-04-03, 10:02 AM
#64
Moderator
Totally ineligeable but fun to mention nonetheless:
Villians:
Michael Gambon's loathsome Albert Spica from "The Cook, The
Thief, His Wife and Her Lover"
Ben Kingsly's Don Logan from "Sexy Beast"
Maleficent - "Sleeping Beauty"
Stromboli - "Pinocchio"
Villians:
Michael Gambon's loathsome Albert Spica from "The Cook, The
Thief, His Wife and Her Lover"
Ben Kingsly's Don Logan from "Sexy Beast"
Maleficent - "Sleeping Beauty"
Stromboli - "Pinocchio"
Last edited by Giles; 06-04-03 at 10:12 AM.
06-04-03, 10:39 AM
#68
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Hell, Vader should be #1 on the villians list. If you go by AFI's on definition and criteria, it's not even debateable that Vader is the top villian of all time.
By the way, Anakin and Vader might be the same person, but they're different. It's all about Vader, not Anakin.
By the way, Anakin and Vader might be the same person, but they're different. It's all about Vader, not Anakin.
06-04-03, 10:42 AM
#69
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Originally posted by Dubya
Titanice was left off because the voting was done before it came out. As to why they did a top 100 of the century without letting the century finish first is a question the AFI should answer
Titanice was left off because the voting was done before it came out. As to why they did a top 100 of the century without letting the century finish first is a question the AFI should answer
Titanic was left off because they put a cut off year of 1996 (which is good because a brand new film needs time before it can be rightfully judged).
It wasn't top 100 of the century, it was top 100 of the first one hundred years of film. Film wasn't invented in 1900.
06-04-03, 10:57 AM
#70
DVD Talk Legend
I hope they revisit the Top 100 List in 2006 or 2007, as a 110 List or something, maybe. Whereas stuff that made the Top 100 can be bounced and stuff that didn't make the Top 100 List (but were released anytime) can be added.
06-04-03, 11:39 AM
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Okay I am sure I am going to have people going what in the bloody hell are you talking about, but hear me out for a minute.
I do not see/believe Hannibal is a villain. Now Bates and Vader on the other hand are what I would consider in some form or another a villain, but Hannibal I just dont see it. Now yes he is a mass murderer, but in the three (or four) films we have seen. He is not the "bad guy" in any of them. In both Red Dragon and Silence he is "assisting" the authorities in their attempts to apprehend two (2) criminals and in Hannibal he is the prey of someone else.
(Now here is where I go of on the limb) To me Hannibal and the Mummy portrayed in the Fraser movies are supposed to be villains, but neither one are. The Mummy is simply wanting to reach his love and others are getting in his way. And Hannibal while a killer is not evil, he is calculating and manipulative, but not evil in the sense of Leatherface or Kruger.
Just my two (2) cents.
I do not see/believe Hannibal is a villain. Now Bates and Vader on the other hand are what I would consider in some form or another a villain, but Hannibal I just dont see it. Now yes he is a mass murderer, but in the three (or four) films we have seen. He is not the "bad guy" in any of them. In both Red Dragon and Silence he is "assisting" the authorities in their attempts to apprehend two (2) criminals and in Hannibal he is the prey of someone else.
(Now here is where I go of on the limb) To me Hannibal and the Mummy portrayed in the Fraser movies are supposed to be villains, but neither one are. The Mummy is simply wanting to reach his love and others are getting in his way. And Hannibal while a killer is not evil, he is calculating and manipulative, but not evil in the sense of Leatherface or Kruger.
Just my two (2) cents.
06-04-03, 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by retihsuhnt
Okay I am sure I am going to have people going what in the bloody hell are you talking about, but hear me out for a minute.
I do not see/believe Hannibal is a villain. Now Bates and Vader on the other hand are what I would consider in some form or another a villain, but Hannibal I just dont see it. Now yes he is a mass murderer, but in the three (or four) films we have seen. He is not the "bad guy" in any of them. In both Red Dragon and Silence he is "assisting" the authorities in their attempts to apprehend two (2) criminals and in Hannibal he is the prey of someone else.
(Now here is where I go of on the limb) To me Hannibal and the Mummy portrayed in the Fraser movies are supposed to be villains, but neither one are. The Mummy is simply wanting to reach his love and others are getting in his way. And Hannibal while a killer is not evil, he is calculating and manipulative, but not evil in the sense of Leatherface or Kruger.
Just my two (2) cents.
Okay I am sure I am going to have people going what in the bloody hell are you talking about, but hear me out for a minute.
I do not see/believe Hannibal is a villain. Now Bates and Vader on the other hand are what I would consider in some form or another a villain, but Hannibal I just dont see it. Now yes he is a mass murderer, but in the three (or four) films we have seen. He is not the "bad guy" in any of them. In both Red Dragon and Silence he is "assisting" the authorities in their attempts to apprehend two (2) criminals and in Hannibal he is the prey of someone else.
(Now here is where I go of on the limb) To me Hannibal and the Mummy portrayed in the Fraser movies are supposed to be villains, but neither one are. The Mummy is simply wanting to reach his love and others are getting in his way. And Hannibal while a killer is not evil, he is calculating and manipulative, but not evil in the sense of Leatherface or Kruger.
Just my two (2) cents.
06-04-03, 11:58 AM
#73
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by Robert
So all those natives he killed, the planes he knocked out of the sky, and the destruction he did to NYC are the traits of a hero?
Thats WTF is up with that.
So all those natives he killed, the planes he knocked out of the sky, and the destruction he did to NYC are the traits of a hero?
Thats WTF is up with that.
FYI: Kong was acting on animal instinct, not evil. I wouldn't call him a villain, but a force of nature more or less.
It seems that it is popular to place people with mental disorders leaning towards homicidal tendencies in the villains category. Lecter I agree with, but Norman Bates was a victime more or less, as was Travis Bickle.
06-04-03, 12:50 PM
#74
DVD Talk Legend
Anyone else notice that there is not a single character from an indy film on this list? Where's Michael Myers from Halloween, or Marcellus Wallace from Pulp Fiction? Or Mr. Blonde from Reservoir Dogs?
Where's Mikey from Swingers?
Do indies not even exist in the eyes of these people?
Where's Mikey from Swingers?
Do indies not even exist in the eyes of these people?
06-04-03, 12:57 PM
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OK the AFI list thing is frustrating...
First the AFI 100 and the later lists (Actor, Love stories, Thrill and Chills) list is an honest swag at the best in film because it took into account time. A movie can be seen as great if seen immediately but 10 20 30 years later it could be out of date or not hold its luster. Don't we think the prom dress or tuxedo we chose was awesome when we wore it but years later we go "Oh my god why did I wear that?" It is the same with film. Styles change but the "That was great" should remain with a film or image. This is why earlier comments on this list about redoing the AFI 100 films list is just ludicrous. For example, how many people would still vote for Forrest Gump over Pulp Fiction and/or English Patient over Fargo for the Oscar. Times change and movies age its that aging which like wine improves a film because it can hold the muster.
The villain/hero list doesn't hold the muster because of this time factor. We have at least 10 villains from the last 10 or so years that haven't been really given time to age and become legend but are now celebrated because of their place in our recent memory and not historical perspective. There is no reason why Gladiator or Denzel's Training Day role, or Erin Brockovich, or many others should be on this list at the expense of chachters that led to their creation. Before Gladiator didn't we have Ben Hur? Before Training Day didn't we have John wayne in The Searchers? Before Brockovich didnt we have Jack Lemmon in the China Syndrome? In addition, the anti-hero is in a pickle here since they are muddy such as Bonnie & CLyde who were criminals but werent they heroes too? King Kong is another example.
I think AFI missed the boat here on somethign that they did better in the past. Time is the factor. I mean we have Freddie Kreuger but no Jason or Michael Myers who really gave Freddie his legacy.
First the AFI 100 and the later lists (Actor, Love stories, Thrill and Chills) list is an honest swag at the best in film because it took into account time. A movie can be seen as great if seen immediately but 10 20 30 years later it could be out of date or not hold its luster. Don't we think the prom dress or tuxedo we chose was awesome when we wore it but years later we go "Oh my god why did I wear that?" It is the same with film. Styles change but the "That was great" should remain with a film or image. This is why earlier comments on this list about redoing the AFI 100 films list is just ludicrous. For example, how many people would still vote for Forrest Gump over Pulp Fiction and/or English Patient over Fargo for the Oscar. Times change and movies age its that aging which like wine improves a film because it can hold the muster.
The villain/hero list doesn't hold the muster because of this time factor. We have at least 10 villains from the last 10 or so years that haven't been really given time to age and become legend but are now celebrated because of their place in our recent memory and not historical perspective. There is no reason why Gladiator or Denzel's Training Day role, or Erin Brockovich, or many others should be on this list at the expense of chachters that led to their creation. Before Gladiator didn't we have Ben Hur? Before Training Day didn't we have John wayne in The Searchers? Before Brockovich didnt we have Jack Lemmon in the China Syndrome? In addition, the anti-hero is in a pickle here since they are muddy such as Bonnie & CLyde who were criminals but werent they heroes too? King Kong is another example.
I think AFI missed the boat here on somethign that they did better in the past. Time is the factor. I mean we have Freddie Kreuger but no Jason or Michael Myers who really gave Freddie his legacy.
