The Darkest Ten #3 - Villains
03-05-03, 09:02 AM
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The Darkest Ten #3 - Villains
What a great word. Villain. It conjures up exactly what it should...words such as sinister, diabolical, and vile. The problem here is that there are too many. Real life villains, comic book villains, villains in novels...hard to compare them when they're located in different levels of the spectrum. I don't think even I am cold-hearted enough to say that a fictional character such as Mysterio is more evil than the Unabomber.
So we are tragically forced to narrow the playing field somewhat. In my list, we will deal with movie villains exclusively. A very small weight will be placed on villains in other forms of media, as I cannot say that this won't sway me at ALL, because it undoubtedly will. I can say that I will try to let it bias me as little as possible.
Some disclaimers, of course. I guess I should say that if you don't want to see any spoilers, then you should probably stop reading after this paragraph. I haven't been chastised as of yet for this unforgivable offense, and seeing as how I'm not so well-versed in these postings that I can black out certain lines, I'll just tell you not to read it. If you choose to continue, I wash my hands of you and your accursed lust for a spoiler-free movie. As always, this list is based only on my opinion, and, in true villain form, (as my megalomania grows) I am forced to tell you that my opinion is absolute! You may disagree, but you will be wrong. Also, I'm only dealing in reality. I'm not going to get all metaphysical on you, and say, "Communism was the true enemy! That's what they were fighting!" or "You see, he was battling himself. He was the anti-thesis of our hero." I'm dealing with characters that are, at least, PHYSICALLY present to the viewer. Sorry, but that means Harvey's out of the running. Which upsets me. I'll get you, you damnable pooka! Stop haunting me! On that note, let's get started.....
10.
Name: Ian McKellen
Character: Erik Magnus Lensherr/Magneto
Why He's Here: Because I love comic books. Already, I'm letting the other forms of media sway me, as I told you I wouldn't. But where would I be without my vices? Hmm...well, I know I wouldn't be sitting next to this glass of Cabernet. That reminds me. Be right back. I have to smoke a cigarette. Okay. Refreshing. Where were we? Ah, yes. Magnus. It's rare that I name a pet after a super-villain, but my bearded dragon is, in more ways than two, one-of-a-kind. It was a toss-up between him and Hackman's Luthor (That "Your weight, my IQ" line cracks me up every time), but Hackman's hackneyed reinvention of the character in every sequel (sans III) grew old. Nuclear Man? Let's not talk about it. To use the same word again, Magneto is so megalomaniacal it almost inspires you to go take over a country. He believes he's justified in whatever he does. And that confidence almost makes me believe him. Hell, if I was a mutant, in that situation, I undoubtedly would believe in his ideology. Ian is last on the list because he didn't portray that presence as well as I would have liked. Then again, no one could have.
9.
Name: Laurence Olivier
Character: General Crassus
Why He's Here: Talk about one conniving SOB. Spartacus builds up the suspense as we watch Kirk Douglas try to amass a force powerful enough to take on Rome. The reason this movie works is because the viewer (assuming he's not a history major) has confidence that Spartacus can free all the slaves in the world. Sure, there's a man who's renowned for his military achievements, but he's resting on his laurels, undoubtedly. Apparently...not. He's here because if I put him any higher, I'd take some guff from the GLAD people due to the infamous "Original Swinger" cut scene. And I don't need that.
8.
Name: Alan Rickman
Character: Hans Gruber
Why He's Here: What a moron. Gruber's on this list because he's like your average, everyman's villain. He's just like the dope who thinks he can waltz into a bank and stroll out the front door with enough cash to retire on. That's why he's so low. Underachiever. He's here because of the scene in Die Hard where he almost gets caught by Bruce Willis, but he takes on that American accent. What a stroke of genius. That, in and of itself, was enough to make me say, "I like this villain." However, I still don't understand why he didn't send every available man to capture McClane as soon as he knew there was a man unsecured. That's just lunacy. Ha ha!
7.
Name: Sir Anthony Hopkins
Character: Dr. Hannibal "The Cannibal" Lecter
Why He's Here: First of all, I love Anthony Hopkins. Any man who will renounce his knighthood to be an American citizen is A-OK in my book. (Sorry, my British brethren, but honesty is my Achilles' Heel) And they're worthy to be called Sir! (See Ian McKellen) This movie has been parodied so many times it's become redundantly ridiculous. And it will be reproduced on innumerable occasions in the future. Thanks, in no small part, to the outstanding performance of Anthony Hopkins. I'll tell you what, Dr. Lecter, I really don't feel like giving you my facial skin right now, but I'll share some brains and Chianti with you any day of the week! The only reason he is this low is due to the sequels. No chemistry with the female lead = crappy ranking.
6.
Name: Louise Fletcher
Character: Nurse Ratched
Why She's Here: Here's how I know that it is possible to be too good at your job: Louise Fletcher's career. To my knowledge, Nurse Ratched is the highlight of this woman's acting skills. Ken Kesey's book depicts this woman as being even more wretched than she is in the movie, but Ms. Fletcher made me despise the character just as much. Now she must resort to High School High to put food on the table, and I'm torn in how I feel about this...On one hand, you can't fault someone for doing exactly what is required of them, but on the other hand, I can't help but despise her for it. She is here because while she may not be the truest form of a villain, she is living proof that one can find a protagonist in the unlikeliest of places.
5.
Name: Kevin Spacey
Character: The Killer
Why He's Here: Talk about a guy putting his career on the line for the sake of an entrance. Spacey kept his name from this picture (even on the VHS box!) so that viewers couldn't scan the credits and deduce the fact that, "Oh, I haven't seen Kevin yet. He must be the bad guy." Risky move, maybe, for an actor. But this, for him, paid off in spades. One could argue that, yes, he had already played Verbal in The Usual Suspects and his position in Hollywood was secure, but I could argue that The Usual Suspects only gained popularity because of Se7en. I didn't see the former until I saw the latter, and many with whom I've spoken share a similar experience. The Killer is here because I love it when a villain scores an occasional victory. With such precision, intelligence and planning in exacting a master plan, one would think that the bad guys would win more than they do. I like the reality of filmography when it finally happens. See Fallen with Denzel Washington if you like this movie. Azrael is an awesome villain, as well, but he is more the ethereal type, and by existing as such, hardly qualifies for a placing on my list.
4.
Name: Brad Pitt
Character: Tyler Durden
Why He's Here: Speaking of hardly qualifying, let me castrate any objections to this rankster. I said they had to be PHYSICALLY present on the screen. Debate about Azrael all you like, but, once again, my opinion is infallible here. So, you wanna tell me that Durden isn't real, eh? He's real enough to the viewer, until the third act of the movie. He's real to the characters' perceptions. Seeing as how Perception drives Reality, I take that to mean he exists. And what a villain he is. Much like Magneto, he is so self-assured in his ideas that he is willing to do whatever is necessary to see them achieved. The only reason he is so low here is because I liked the ending of the book better. I don't like to see my favorite villains die.
3.
Name: Lee Marvin
Character: Liberty Valance
Why He's Here: He makes me laugh. "Paid in advance." What a jerk! He's on the list because he is the 'classic' villain. He's the person everyone has known at some point or another. Your typical bully. Roaming the countryside, doing as he pleases, beating the living hell out of people...that's a villain for ya. If someone came up to me tomorrow and told me that Batman's nemesis the Joker was based on Liberty Valance, I would whole-heartedly believe them. He's funny, insane and ruthless. And speaking of our friend the Joker.....
2.
Name: Jack Nicholson
Character: The Joker
Why He's Here: See #3 for additional insight. Jack Nicholson, in true great actor form, perfectly personified this supervillain. The Joker is the original looney toon. He's great because he humors himself. He tells jokes that may not amuse others, but he doesn't care because he's happy. He kills people. He's happy. He is AWESOME because he does whatever the hell he feels like doing, all in the name of satisfying whatever urge he happens to feel at that particular moment in time. No one is safe. This was characterized by the Joker shooting his own henchman in the movie. In reality, if the Joker was a real person, it would amaze me if anyone would ever work for him. Talk about raising your hazard level and shortening your lifespan. Yes, my affections for comics weighed in here somewhat, but I like Magneto a helluva lot more than I like the Joker, and look where that got him. The Joker is Second because of Jack's personification of him. He's only second because, while he made me laugh, number one...
1.
Name: James Earl Jones
Character: The Voice of Darth Vader
Why He's Here: ...absolutely terrified me. And isn't that what a villain is supposed to do? I didn't even see these movies in their entirety until I was in high school. Vader was the reason for that. I still remember him in A New Hope, as he levitated that crew member and crushed his larynx without even laying a finger on him. That scared the shiznit out of yours truly. In the future, under the word villain, you will see (example - Darth Vader). The premier villain. Take over the world? He wants the universe. Killed a man? Destroyed a planet. Evil? Endowed with the power of the Dark Side, which is a tepid amalgamation of ALL that is evil. One may wonder: Darth Vader is present, as well as Mr. Jones' voice, however his body is not...Does he qualify? Of course. He sure isn’t some feeble old man underneath some shimmering ebony armor. James Earl Jones IS Darth Vader. THE Darth Vader. He MAKES Darth Vader. He never starred in Jingle All the Way, either.
Ah, that brings us to a close, once again. Time for some more Cabernet, too. A cigarette sounds nice...I realize that I said various media sources wouldn't sway my decision so much, but they did. There probably is a simple explanation for that. I LIED!!! Ha Ha Haaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaa Haaaaaaa!!! In true villain fashion!
With that, I bid thee adieu. Hope to hear your visions of villainy soon. Also, I hope you enjoyed reading it half as much as I enjoyed writing it.
Good day.
So we are tragically forced to narrow the playing field somewhat. In my list, we will deal with movie villains exclusively. A very small weight will be placed on villains in other forms of media, as I cannot say that this won't sway me at ALL, because it undoubtedly will. I can say that I will try to let it bias me as little as possible.
Some disclaimers, of course. I guess I should say that if you don't want to see any spoilers, then you should probably stop reading after this paragraph. I haven't been chastised as of yet for this unforgivable offense, and seeing as how I'm not so well-versed in these postings that I can black out certain lines, I'll just tell you not to read it. If you choose to continue, I wash my hands of you and your accursed lust for a spoiler-free movie. As always, this list is based only on my opinion, and, in true villain form, (as my megalomania grows) I am forced to tell you that my opinion is absolute! You may disagree, but you will be wrong. Also, I'm only dealing in reality. I'm not going to get all metaphysical on you, and say, "Communism was the true enemy! That's what they were fighting!" or "You see, he was battling himself. He was the anti-thesis of our hero." I'm dealing with characters that are, at least, PHYSICALLY present to the viewer. Sorry, but that means Harvey's out of the running. Which upsets me. I'll get you, you damnable pooka! Stop haunting me! On that note, let's get started.....
10.
Name: Ian McKellen
Character: Erik Magnus Lensherr/Magneto
Why He's Here: Because I love comic books. Already, I'm letting the other forms of media sway me, as I told you I wouldn't. But where would I be without my vices? Hmm...well, I know I wouldn't be sitting next to this glass of Cabernet. That reminds me. Be right back. I have to smoke a cigarette. Okay. Refreshing. Where were we? Ah, yes. Magnus. It's rare that I name a pet after a super-villain, but my bearded dragon is, in more ways than two, one-of-a-kind. It was a toss-up between him and Hackman's Luthor (That "Your weight, my IQ" line cracks me up every time), but Hackman's hackneyed reinvention of the character in every sequel (sans III) grew old. Nuclear Man? Let's not talk about it. To use the same word again, Magneto is so megalomaniacal it almost inspires you to go take over a country. He believes he's justified in whatever he does. And that confidence almost makes me believe him. Hell, if I was a mutant, in that situation, I undoubtedly would believe in his ideology. Ian is last on the list because he didn't portray that presence as well as I would have liked. Then again, no one could have.
9.
Name: Laurence Olivier
Character: General Crassus
Why He's Here: Talk about one conniving SOB. Spartacus builds up the suspense as we watch Kirk Douglas try to amass a force powerful enough to take on Rome. The reason this movie works is because the viewer (assuming he's not a history major) has confidence that Spartacus can free all the slaves in the world. Sure, there's a man who's renowned for his military achievements, but he's resting on his laurels, undoubtedly. Apparently...not. He's here because if I put him any higher, I'd take some guff from the GLAD people due to the infamous "Original Swinger" cut scene. And I don't need that.
8.
Name: Alan Rickman
Character: Hans Gruber
Why He's Here: What a moron. Gruber's on this list because he's like your average, everyman's villain. He's just like the dope who thinks he can waltz into a bank and stroll out the front door with enough cash to retire on. That's why he's so low. Underachiever. He's here because of the scene in Die Hard where he almost gets caught by Bruce Willis, but he takes on that American accent. What a stroke of genius. That, in and of itself, was enough to make me say, "I like this villain." However, I still don't understand why he didn't send every available man to capture McClane as soon as he knew there was a man unsecured. That's just lunacy. Ha ha!
7.
Name: Sir Anthony Hopkins
Character: Dr. Hannibal "The Cannibal" Lecter
Why He's Here: First of all, I love Anthony Hopkins. Any man who will renounce his knighthood to be an American citizen is A-OK in my book. (Sorry, my British brethren, but honesty is my Achilles' Heel) And they're worthy to be called Sir! (See Ian McKellen) This movie has been parodied so many times it's become redundantly ridiculous. And it will be reproduced on innumerable occasions in the future. Thanks, in no small part, to the outstanding performance of Anthony Hopkins. I'll tell you what, Dr. Lecter, I really don't feel like giving you my facial skin right now, but I'll share some brains and Chianti with you any day of the week! The only reason he is this low is due to the sequels. No chemistry with the female lead = crappy ranking.
6.
Name: Louise Fletcher
Character: Nurse Ratched
Why She's Here: Here's how I know that it is possible to be too good at your job: Louise Fletcher's career. To my knowledge, Nurse Ratched is the highlight of this woman's acting skills. Ken Kesey's book depicts this woman as being even more wretched than she is in the movie, but Ms. Fletcher made me despise the character just as much. Now she must resort to High School High to put food on the table, and I'm torn in how I feel about this...On one hand, you can't fault someone for doing exactly what is required of them, but on the other hand, I can't help but despise her for it. She is here because while she may not be the truest form of a villain, she is living proof that one can find a protagonist in the unlikeliest of places.
5.
Name: Kevin Spacey
Character: The Killer
Why He's Here: Talk about a guy putting his career on the line for the sake of an entrance. Spacey kept his name from this picture (even on the VHS box!) so that viewers couldn't scan the credits and deduce the fact that, "Oh, I haven't seen Kevin yet. He must be the bad guy." Risky move, maybe, for an actor. But this, for him, paid off in spades. One could argue that, yes, he had already played Verbal in The Usual Suspects and his position in Hollywood was secure, but I could argue that The Usual Suspects only gained popularity because of Se7en. I didn't see the former until I saw the latter, and many with whom I've spoken share a similar experience. The Killer is here because I love it when a villain scores an occasional victory. With such precision, intelligence and planning in exacting a master plan, one would think that the bad guys would win more than they do. I like the reality of filmography when it finally happens. See Fallen with Denzel Washington if you like this movie. Azrael is an awesome villain, as well, but he is more the ethereal type, and by existing as such, hardly qualifies for a placing on my list.
4.
Name: Brad Pitt
Character: Tyler Durden
Why He's Here: Speaking of hardly qualifying, let me castrate any objections to this rankster. I said they had to be PHYSICALLY present on the screen. Debate about Azrael all you like, but, once again, my opinion is infallible here. So, you wanna tell me that Durden isn't real, eh? He's real enough to the viewer, until the third act of the movie. He's real to the characters' perceptions. Seeing as how Perception drives Reality, I take that to mean he exists. And what a villain he is. Much like Magneto, he is so self-assured in his ideas that he is willing to do whatever is necessary to see them achieved. The only reason he is so low here is because I liked the ending of the book better. I don't like to see my favorite villains die.
3.
Name: Lee Marvin
Character: Liberty Valance
Why He's Here: He makes me laugh. "Paid in advance." What a jerk! He's on the list because he is the 'classic' villain. He's the person everyone has known at some point or another. Your typical bully. Roaming the countryside, doing as he pleases, beating the living hell out of people...that's a villain for ya. If someone came up to me tomorrow and told me that Batman's nemesis the Joker was based on Liberty Valance, I would whole-heartedly believe them. He's funny, insane and ruthless. And speaking of our friend the Joker.....
2.
Name: Jack Nicholson
Character: The Joker
Why He's Here: See #3 for additional insight. Jack Nicholson, in true great actor form, perfectly personified this supervillain. The Joker is the original looney toon. He's great because he humors himself. He tells jokes that may not amuse others, but he doesn't care because he's happy. He kills people. He's happy. He is AWESOME because he does whatever the hell he feels like doing, all in the name of satisfying whatever urge he happens to feel at that particular moment in time. No one is safe. This was characterized by the Joker shooting his own henchman in the movie. In reality, if the Joker was a real person, it would amaze me if anyone would ever work for him. Talk about raising your hazard level and shortening your lifespan. Yes, my affections for comics weighed in here somewhat, but I like Magneto a helluva lot more than I like the Joker, and look where that got him. The Joker is Second because of Jack's personification of him. He's only second because, while he made me laugh, number one...
1.
Name: James Earl Jones
Character: The Voice of Darth Vader
Why He's Here: ...absolutely terrified me. And isn't that what a villain is supposed to do? I didn't even see these movies in their entirety until I was in high school. Vader was the reason for that. I still remember him in A New Hope, as he levitated that crew member and crushed his larynx without even laying a finger on him. That scared the shiznit out of yours truly. In the future, under the word villain, you will see (example - Darth Vader). The premier villain. Take over the world? He wants the universe. Killed a man? Destroyed a planet. Evil? Endowed with the power of the Dark Side, which is a tepid amalgamation of ALL that is evil. One may wonder: Darth Vader is present, as well as Mr. Jones' voice, however his body is not...Does he qualify? Of course. He sure isn’t some feeble old man underneath some shimmering ebony armor. James Earl Jones IS Darth Vader. THE Darth Vader. He MAKES Darth Vader. He never starred in Jingle All the Way, either.
Ah, that brings us to a close, once again. Time for some more Cabernet, too. A cigarette sounds nice...I realize that I said various media sources wouldn't sway my decision so much, but they did. There probably is a simple explanation for that. I LIED!!! Ha Ha Haaaaa Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaa Haaaaaaa!!! In true villain fashion!
With that, I bid thee adieu. Hope to hear your visions of villainy soon. Also, I hope you enjoyed reading it half as much as I enjoyed writing it.
Good day.
03-05-03, 10:34 AM
#2
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Wow -- excellent and most entertaining post! Here are a few more for consideration:
The Shark, in Jaws
Hal-9000, in 2001: A Space Odyssey
Norman Bates (Anthony Perkins), in Psycho
Alex Forrest (Glenn Close), in Fatal Attraction
The Wicked Witch of the West (Margaret Hamilton), in The Wizard of Oz
Dracula (Bela Lugosi), in Dracula (1931)
Little Bill Daggett (Gene Hackman), in Unforgiven
Khan (Ricardo Montalban), in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Erik (Lon Chaney), in The Phantom of the Opera (1925)
Edit: Good grief, how could I have forgotten:
The Terminator (Ahnuld), in The Terminator
The Shark, in Jaws
Hal-9000, in 2001: A Space Odyssey
Norman Bates (Anthony Perkins), in Psycho
Alex Forrest (Glenn Close), in Fatal Attraction
The Wicked Witch of the West (Margaret Hamilton), in The Wizard of Oz
Dracula (Bela Lugosi), in Dracula (1931)
Little Bill Daggett (Gene Hackman), in Unforgiven
Khan (Ricardo Montalban), in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Erik (Lon Chaney), in The Phantom of the Opera (1925)
Edit: Good grief, how could I have forgotten:
The Terminator (Ahnuld), in The Terminator
Last edited by Dah-Dee; 03-05-03 at 10:37 AM.
03-05-03, 12:50 PM
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I wasn't sold on McKellan... his performance & physique didn't capture the image I had for Magneto.
I'm surprised you haven't included..
Maleficent!
I'm surprised you haven't included..
Maleficent!
Last edited by devilshalo; 03-07-03 at 03:12 PM.
03-05-03, 02:20 PM
#7
DVD Talk Hero
Gert Frobe, Auric Goldfinger, Goldfinger: Tries to kill Bond with an industrial laser, cheats at golf, builds a giant presentation to show off to America's gangsters how smart he is, then kills them all. The archetypal Bond villain.
Sidney Greenstreet, Casper Gutman, The Maltese Falcon: friendly, charming, boisterous, and everything he says might be a lie. Completely treacherous. Betrays his lover to the police so he can get the treasure. Will act like your best friend until your guard is down, then stick it to you.
Other movies with good villains include Touch of Evil, Chinatown, and High and Low.
Sidney Greenstreet, Casper Gutman, The Maltese Falcon: friendly, charming, boisterous, and everything he says might be a lie. Completely treacherous. Betrays his lover to the police so he can get the treasure. Will act like your best friend until your guard is down, then stick it to you.
Other movies with good villains include Touch of Evil, Chinatown, and High and Low.
03-05-03, 04:12 PM
#9
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Some cool choices so far. Here are some of my favorite movie villains who have not yet been mentioned:
- Harry Lime (Orson Welles) in the Third Man
- Salieri (F. Murray Abraham) in Amadeus
- Angel Eyes (Lee Van Cleef) in The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
- Belloq (Paul Freeman) in Raiders of the Lost Ark
- Castor Troy (Nicolas Cage and John Travolta) in Face/Off
- Hank Quinlan (Orson Welles) in Touch of Evil
- Roy Batty (Rutger Hauer) in Blade Runner
- Keyser Soze () in The Usual SuspectsSpoiler:
- Capt. Renault (Claude Rains) in Casablanca (sort of)
- The Alien in Alien
- Norman Bates (Anthony Perkins) in Psycho
- in Dead AgainSpoiler:
- Hyman Roth (Lee Strassberg) in Godfather II
- in L.A. ConfidentialSpoiler:
03-05-03, 09:41 PM
#11
DVD Talk Legend
Wow, I gotta tell you, I only agree with about two of your choices. Hard to argue about Hannibal Lector and Darth Vader -- two classic characters that seem to personify villainy... and I have not seen SPARTACUS or THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE... but some of your other choices just don't fly, man.
10. Ian McKellen -- Erik Magnus Lensherr/Magneto
2. Jack Nicholson -- The Joker
I love comic book movies as much as the next guy, but I do not think that Magneto came across as especially evil or villainous. I felt he was somewhat sympathetic, actually, and hardly in good company with these "proper villains". And The Joker was more funny than evil, although he does have his moments.
8. Alan Rickman -- Hans Gruber
Again, I loved DIE HARD, and I thoroughly enjoyed Rickman's performance... but he just doesn't exude that sense of wickedness or malice that this list should deserve.
6. Louise Fletcher -- Nurse Racket
5. Kevin Spacey -- The Killer
4. Brad Pitt -- Tyler Durden
These are three of my all time favorite movies -- and come on, who doesn't love CUCKOO'S NEST, SE7EN and FIGHT CLUB -- but it is a real stretch to call any of these characters "villains" in the true sense of the word. To use the old Dungeons and Dragons alignment codes, you'd have to call Nurse Ratchet "Lawful Good" or maybe at worst "Lawful Neutral"... heck, she just wanted everyone to follow the rules, and McMurphy broke all the rules. Tyler Durden was "Chaotic Good" or maybe "Chaotic Neutral" -- certainly chaotic -- but again, he had sort of noble ulterior motives. Kevin Spacey in SE7EN commited evil horrific acts... but we only saw the aftermath until the very end, and even then I always felt that what made Spacey's performance so unsettling was the sheer normalcy that he seemed to exude. Again, hardly what you'd call a dark and sinister villain.
So since I'm throwing out six of the ten you put together (sorry, Dark!), I guess I need to replace them. In no particular order...
* Bob Gunton as The Warden, SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION
Corrupt, pompous, and tremendously weasily, you can't help but cheer at his demise by the end of the film. And isn't that the mark of a great villain?
* Christoper Lee as Saruman, LORD OF THE RINGS
Absoulte power corrupts absolutely. When Saruman looks on as the orcs and goblins pull down thousand year oak trees in the beautiful forest that had been his home, his face is a reflection of such smugness and satisfaction that you almost want to reach up and smack the screen.
* Ralph Fiennes as Amon Goeth, SCHINDLERS LIST
An amazingly bravura performance that just chills you to the bone. When he goes up on the rooftop and just starts sniping at the random workers... or when he so desperately kisses up to Schindler, only to callously try and throw everything away at the end... almost a clinic in how to be a villain.
* Michael Madsen as Mr. Blonde, RESERVOIR DOGS
Some actors just seem to naturally fall into the role of villains, and Michael Madsen, with his supernatural cool and aloof viciousness, has never been more horrific than in this film -- especially the "torture you, that's, that's a good idea, I like that" bloody-ear scene. Wow.
* Patrick McGoohan as Longshanks, BRAVEHEART
Evil, evil, evil, evil, evil. As much as they tweaked the historical record in making this film, couldn't they have added in some bonus footage that showed Longshanks on his deathbed with his wheezing cough... only to have William Wallace ride his horse into the palatial chamber and smash in his head with a morningstar? Or maybe just pull out an AK-47 and go Rambo on his ass? Is that asking too much?
* Jack Nicholson as Jack Torrance, THE SHINING
Sorry, but as good as Nicholson was as The Joker, he was absoultely in his element as a man driven into a murderous frenzy in THE SHINING, which remains the only film to ever actually spook me out. Just the look on his face as he goes chasing after his wife... wow. I just got shivers again, thinking about it. Kubrick's best film, IMHO.
For that matter, since someone threw out Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty... having kids makes me really appreciate some of the great cartoon villains out there, like the Evil Queen in SNOW WHITE, Cruella de Ville in 101 DALMATIONS, and even Lord Farquat in SHREK. Heck, for my money, there is no more evil character in film or TV than Angelica from THE RUGRATS, but that is a topic for another day.
Great topic, Darkest. Who did I forget?
10. Ian McKellen -- Erik Magnus Lensherr/Magneto
2. Jack Nicholson -- The Joker
I love comic book movies as much as the next guy, but I do not think that Magneto came across as especially evil or villainous. I felt he was somewhat sympathetic, actually, and hardly in good company with these "proper villains". And The Joker was more funny than evil, although he does have his moments.
8. Alan Rickman -- Hans Gruber
Again, I loved DIE HARD, and I thoroughly enjoyed Rickman's performance... but he just doesn't exude that sense of wickedness or malice that this list should deserve.
6. Louise Fletcher -- Nurse Racket
5. Kevin Spacey -- The Killer
4. Brad Pitt -- Tyler Durden
These are three of my all time favorite movies -- and come on, who doesn't love CUCKOO'S NEST, SE7EN and FIGHT CLUB -- but it is a real stretch to call any of these characters "villains" in the true sense of the word. To use the old Dungeons and Dragons alignment codes, you'd have to call Nurse Ratchet "Lawful Good" or maybe at worst "Lawful Neutral"... heck, she just wanted everyone to follow the rules, and McMurphy broke all the rules. Tyler Durden was "Chaotic Good" or maybe "Chaotic Neutral" -- certainly chaotic -- but again, he had sort of noble ulterior motives. Kevin Spacey in SE7EN commited evil horrific acts... but we only saw the aftermath until the very end, and even then I always felt that what made Spacey's performance so unsettling was the sheer normalcy that he seemed to exude. Again, hardly what you'd call a dark and sinister villain.
So since I'm throwing out six of the ten you put together (sorry, Dark!), I guess I need to replace them. In no particular order...
* Bob Gunton as The Warden, SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION
Corrupt, pompous, and tremendously weasily, you can't help but cheer at his demise by the end of the film. And isn't that the mark of a great villain?
* Christoper Lee as Saruman, LORD OF THE RINGS
Absoulte power corrupts absolutely. When Saruman looks on as the orcs and goblins pull down thousand year oak trees in the beautiful forest that had been his home, his face is a reflection of such smugness and satisfaction that you almost want to reach up and smack the screen.
* Ralph Fiennes as Amon Goeth, SCHINDLERS LIST
An amazingly bravura performance that just chills you to the bone. When he goes up on the rooftop and just starts sniping at the random workers... or when he so desperately kisses up to Schindler, only to callously try and throw everything away at the end... almost a clinic in how to be a villain.
* Michael Madsen as Mr. Blonde, RESERVOIR DOGS
Some actors just seem to naturally fall into the role of villains, and Michael Madsen, with his supernatural cool and aloof viciousness, has never been more horrific than in this film -- especially the "torture you, that's, that's a good idea, I like that" bloody-ear scene. Wow.
* Patrick McGoohan as Longshanks, BRAVEHEART
Evil, evil, evil, evil, evil. As much as they tweaked the historical record in making this film, couldn't they have added in some bonus footage that showed Longshanks on his deathbed with his wheezing cough... only to have William Wallace ride his horse into the palatial chamber and smash in his head with a morningstar? Or maybe just pull out an AK-47 and go Rambo on his ass? Is that asking too much?
* Jack Nicholson as Jack Torrance, THE SHINING
Sorry, but as good as Nicholson was as The Joker, he was absoultely in his element as a man driven into a murderous frenzy in THE SHINING, which remains the only film to ever actually spook me out. Just the look on his face as he goes chasing after his wife... wow. I just got shivers again, thinking about it. Kubrick's best film, IMHO.
For that matter, since someone threw out Maleficent from Sleeping Beauty... having kids makes me really appreciate some of the great cartoon villains out there, like the Evil Queen in SNOW WHITE, Cruella de Ville in 101 DALMATIONS, and even Lord Farquat in SHREK. Heck, for my money, there is no more evil character in film or TV than Angelica from THE RUGRATS, but that is a topic for another day.
Great topic, Darkest. Who did I forget?
03-05-03, 10:27 PM
#13
Member
Al Pacino as Scarface and Michael Corleonne. As Scarface, he could snap at any moment. As Michael, he could quietly have you, your family, and your next door neighbor wacked.
Robert Patrick in T2 as the T-1000. He was unremorseful, brutal, and didn't hesitate to kill whatever got in his (its) way. He also plays bad cops really good.
Other Notables -- Michael Ironside (Total Recall, many others I can't think of), Joe Pesci (Goodfellas), Clancy Brown (Highlander).
Robert Patrick in T2 as the T-1000. He was unremorseful, brutal, and didn't hesitate to kill whatever got in his (its) way. He also plays bad cops really good.
Other Notables -- Michael Ironside (Total Recall, many others I can't think of), Joe Pesci (Goodfellas), Clancy Brown (Highlander).
03-07-03, 02:21 PM
#15
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
ncmojo, I've also got to disagree with some on your list.
Christopher - Saruman: He has all of maybe 10 minutes in both films and is not all that scary or evil. Basically other than the duel with Gandalf, all he does it sit around making speeches. Hardly one of the 10 greatest villains of all time.
The Warden - Shawshank: I agree with everything you said about him, and he was good for that film. But again, this is the Top 10 of all time. He wouldn't make that list.
I've gott throw Michael Madsen out of there as well, even though he was a good villain.
I'd replace these with Keyszer Soze of The Usual Suspects, The Emperor in the original Star Wars trilogy, and Norman Bates from Psycho.
Christopher - Saruman: He has all of maybe 10 minutes in both films and is not all that scary or evil. Basically other than the duel with Gandalf, all he does it sit around making speeches. Hardly one of the 10 greatest villains of all time.
The Warden - Shawshank: I agree with everything you said about him, and he was good for that film. But again, this is the Top 10 of all time. He wouldn't make that list.
I've gott throw Michael Madsen out of there as well, even though he was a good villain.
I'd replace these with Keyszer Soze of The Usual Suspects, The Emperor in the original Star Wars trilogy, and Norman Bates from Psycho.
03-07-03, 02:34 PM
#16
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I like some of what I've seen and disagree with some so here is my list.
10. Patrick McGoohan/Longshanks - This man was evil and petty and everthing good villian needs to be. "The problem with Scotland is that it's full of scots!"
9. John Malkovich/Cyrus 'The Virus' Grissom - With a nickname like "The Virus" you know this is one bad dude.
8. Joaquin Phoenix/Emperor Commodus - I so wanted this litlle bastard dead and that's always a good sign.
7. Tim Curry/The Lord of Darkness - He's the Lord of friggin Darkness people "The Villian!"
6. Gary Oldman/Stansfield - Also wanted dead really bad. On a side not shouldn't Gary Oldman get some kind of award for playing the best villians.
5. Christopher Walken/Gabriel - He was the angel of death and sometimes when he felt like it he riped the souls from little girls.
4. James Earl Jones/Darth Vader - nuff said
3. Ricardo Montalban/Khan Noonien Singh - Best Star Trek villian ever!
2. Dennis Hopper/Frank Booth - He was one sick character and very much a villian.
1.Bela Lougosi/Christopher Lee/Gary Oldman/Dracula - The Ultimate Villian!
10. Patrick McGoohan/Longshanks - This man was evil and petty and everthing good villian needs to be. "The problem with Scotland is that it's full of scots!"
9. John Malkovich/Cyrus 'The Virus' Grissom - With a nickname like "The Virus" you know this is one bad dude.
8. Joaquin Phoenix/Emperor Commodus - I so wanted this litlle bastard dead and that's always a good sign.
7. Tim Curry/The Lord of Darkness - He's the Lord of friggin Darkness people "The Villian!"
6. Gary Oldman/Stansfield - Also wanted dead really bad. On a side not shouldn't Gary Oldman get some kind of award for playing the best villians.
5. Christopher Walken/Gabriel - He was the angel of death and sometimes when he felt like it he riped the souls from little girls.
4. James Earl Jones/Darth Vader - nuff said
3. Ricardo Montalban/Khan Noonien Singh - Best Star Trek villian ever!
2. Dennis Hopper/Frank Booth - He was one sick character and very much a villian.
1.Bela Lougosi/Christopher Lee/Gary Oldman/Dracula - The Ultimate Villian!
