Can someone explain to me the appeal of Empire Strikes Back
02-26-03, 09:26 AM
#26
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I would simply say that if it has to be explained to you, then you'll never get it. It has become a popular opinion on the internet that Empire is the best, just as much as it has become popular to slam Lucas. My personal feeling is that Empire may be my favorite, but then Star Wars will be my favorite, then I'll watch Jedi, then it becomes my favorite. So I have a hard time deciding. I will tell you this and you may not believe me, but I know a hell of a lot more people that love Jedi the most of all the films. It's understandable as some of the most amazing moments occure in Jedi. Everyone is different I guess. Just as some people can see a film and see the greatest thing ever, and others see pure crap.
02-26-03, 02:30 PM
#28
ESB is absolutely Far and Away my favorite of the series.How can you NOT be appealed to it if you're a Star Wars fan!Then again everyone has different opinions.
Here's how I'd grade the series on my personal preference-
Empire Strikes Back: AAA+
Star Wars: A
Return of the Jedi: B
Attack of the Clones: B-
Phantom Menace: B-
Here's how I'd grade the series on my personal preference-
Empire Strikes Back: AAA+
Star Wars: A
Return of the Jedi: B
Attack of the Clones: B-
Phantom Menace: B-
02-26-03, 02:34 PM
#29
DVD Talk Limited Edition
I don't know exactly but...
Star Wars, I was in 7th grade. I liked it, but didn't see until it had been out a while, so already had these expectations built up--I liked it, but it never really met my expectations.
Empire, I went opening night in Westwood with some people from high school, and it was just overall a fun experience, plus the whole father thing was a total surprise, plus I didn't find any part boring. It became my favorite up until then.
I saw the 3rd one opening day, too, but at some mall theater. The surprise wasn't as big a surprise as the 2nd movie, the setting was good, and I didn't like the movie as much, so Empire was still my favorite.
The 4th and 5th (aka episode 1 and 2) I found to be pretty mediocre. Therefore, Empire remains my favorite. If I lost all memory of them, and saw them fresh, who knews. But it was my favorite at the time I saw it, and nothing since has been as good, so it remains my favorite.
Star Wars, I was in 7th grade. I liked it, but didn't see until it had been out a while, so already had these expectations built up--I liked it, but it never really met my expectations.
Empire, I went opening night in Westwood with some people from high school, and it was just overall a fun experience, plus the whole father thing was a total surprise, plus I didn't find any part boring. It became my favorite up until then.
I saw the 3rd one opening day, too, but at some mall theater. The surprise wasn't as big a surprise as the 2nd movie, the setting was good, and I didn't like the movie as much, so Empire was still my favorite.
The 4th and 5th (aka episode 1 and 2) I found to be pretty mediocre. Therefore, Empire remains my favorite. If I lost all memory of them, and saw them fresh, who knews. But it was my favorite at the time I saw it, and nothing since has been as good, so it remains my favorite.
02-26-03, 02:52 PM
#30
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Since hopefully, no school due to the snow storm, I'll do a little star wars original versions pan and scan to death marrathon and rate in order when I get done.
02-26-03, 03:12 PM
#31
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While we're at it, Here's my ranking:
1. Empire A+
2. Star Wars A+ these two are so close that on any given day my answer might switch
3. Clones B
4. Phantom C+
5. Jedi C
1. Empire A+
2. Star Wars A+ these two are so close that on any given day my answer might switch
3. Clones B
4. Phantom C+
5. Jedi C
02-26-03, 05:16 PM
#33
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
I've gotten to the point where I refuse to choose between them, but then I don't have to do I. I love 4 of the 5 films. TPM goes to the bottom of the pile. I liked the film, and it has grown on me. There are a number of jawdropping moments. But Jake Lloyd and Jar-Jar bring it down.
02-26-03, 08:12 PM
#34
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by pdinosaur
shrot answer: the empire WON.
shrot answer: the empire WON.
But they didn't lose. They didn't get their Death Star blow up, and they're no worse off than before. I do think it's kind of funny that many people often consider Empire to be an example of a movie where the bad guy wins. To me it's basically a draw.
02-26-03, 09:25 PM
#35
Retired
Originally posted by Terrell
I've gotten to the point where I refuse to choose between them, but then I don't have to do I. I love 4 of the 5 films. TPM goes to the bottom of the pile. I liked the film, and it has grown on me. There are a number of jawdropping moments. But Jake Lloyd and Jar-Jar bring it down.
I've gotten to the point where I refuse to choose between them, but then I don't have to do I. I love 4 of the 5 films. TPM goes to the bottom of the pile. I liked the film, and it has grown on me. There are a number of jawdropping moments. But Jake Lloyd and Jar-Jar bring it down.
It'll be harder to think that way with the new trilogy due to the 10 year gap between TPM and Clones.
But for the spirit of the thread, I'll post a general ranking, though there's not much drop off in between each one (with the exception of going from the classic trilogy to the new movies, which I like, but not nearly as much).
1. Empire.
2. ROTJ
3. ANH
4. Clones
5. TPM
02-26-03, 09:31 PM
#36
DVD Talk Legend
Originally posted by bboisvert
7. At one point, Han is face-to-face with Vader, and he takes out his blaster and freakin shoots him! How cool is that?
7. At one point, Han is face-to-face with Vader, and he takes out his blaster and freakin shoots him! How cool is that?
I think this bit gets overlooked (even by me) far too often.
The biggest badass in the galaxy, and Han thinks he has a chance. Two bits of coolness actually, Han's bravado, and Vader's complete lack of reaction. Just block and yank.
02-27-03, 11:24 AM
#37
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Originally posted by milo bloom
I think this bit gets overlooked (even by me) far too often.
The biggest badass in the galaxy, and Han thinks he has a chance. Two bits of coolness actually, Han's bravado, and Vader's complete lack of reaction. Just block and yank.
I think this bit gets overlooked (even by me) far too often.
The biggest badass in the galaxy, and Han thinks he has a chance. Two bits of coolness actually, Han's bravado, and Vader's complete lack of reaction. Just block and yank.
02-27-03, 12:08 PM
#38
DVD Talk Gold Edition
to dovetail with another current thread- one reason ESB is so great is because it has some great character development.
even moreso when you put it together with the previous film.
Han, Luke, Leia- all of them change over the coarse of these two films.
instead of carrying the same one-notes over to the sequel (luke is young and hasty, han is self absorbed and mostly bravado, and leia is tough and spunky).
we get to see the characters evolve and become conflicted.
that is just too cool.
and thats the follow up to the biggest money maker of all time.
conventional wisdom would dictate 'you don't mess with the formula'.
i wonder how much Lucas will go back and re-tool it, just to spite everyone feels its still the strongest.
if i'm not mistaken, of all the films this is the one he had the least (relatively) to do with.
even moreso when you put it together with the previous film.
Han, Luke, Leia- all of them change over the coarse of these two films.
instead of carrying the same one-notes over to the sequel (luke is young and hasty, han is self absorbed and mostly bravado, and leia is tough and spunky).
we get to see the characters evolve and become conflicted.
that is just too cool.
and thats the follow up to the biggest money maker of all time.
conventional wisdom would dictate 'you don't mess with the formula'.
i wonder how much Lucas will go back and re-tool it, just to spite everyone feels its still the strongest.
if i'm not mistaken, of all the films this is the one he had the least (relatively) to do with.
02-27-03, 01:44 PM
#39
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As for me, ESB had just about everything, amazing locations, incredible action, a twist ending. Plus, Yoda established himself as one of the greatest philosophers of our time in this movie, whether you like to admit it or not. I mean look at all the people in Australia and Europe who have claimed Jedi to be their sole religion!
The scenes with Yoda on his home planet in ESB are probably my favorite Star Wars scenes in the entire series. Yoda's dialogue is near perfect in this movie. Unfortunately though his lines only go downhill after ESB. For instance, take every line in AOTC. Every thing he said was entirely predictable. It was as if his lines were written so he merely "sounds" like Yoda, not thinks like him. So unfortunately he offers no perfectly patterned words of wisdom. Instead we hear lines like, "to the forward command center take me." Okay, this line should have been taken out during the final edit. Not only does this make Yoda sound like an idiot, but also it adds useless exposition that could have been better demonstrated with action. I suppose you could argue that since he's younger in these movies, he's not as wise, but I'm sure that's not what Lucas has in mind when he's writing the script.
Anyway, enough ranting. To the bathroom I must go. ESB is my favorite Star Wars film right now and probably always will be.
- David
The scenes with Yoda on his home planet in ESB are probably my favorite Star Wars scenes in the entire series. Yoda's dialogue is near perfect in this movie. Unfortunately though his lines only go downhill after ESB. For instance, take every line in AOTC. Every thing he said was entirely predictable. It was as if his lines were written so he merely "sounds" like Yoda, not thinks like him. So unfortunately he offers no perfectly patterned words of wisdom. Instead we hear lines like, "to the forward command center take me." Okay, this line should have been taken out during the final edit. Not only does this make Yoda sound like an idiot, but also it adds useless exposition that could have been better demonstrated with action. I suppose you could argue that since he's younger in these movies, he's not as wise, but I'm sure that's not what Lucas has in mind when he's writing the script.
Anyway, enough ranting. To the bathroom I must go. ESB is my favorite Star Wars film right now and probably always will be.
- David
Last edited by David Blair; 02-27-03 at 01:47 PM.
02-27-03, 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by The Movie Man
...For instance, take every line in AOTC. Every thing he said was entirely predictable. It was as if his lines were written so he merely "sounds" like Yoda, not thinks like him. So unfortunately he offers no perfectly patterned words of wisdom. Instead we hear lines like, "to the forward command center take me." Okay, this line should have been taken out during the final edit. Not only does this make Yoda sound like an idiot, but also it adds useless exposition that could have been better demonstrated with action. I suppose you could argue that since he's younger in these movies, he's not as wise, but I'm sure that's not what Lucas has in mind when he's writing the script.
...For instance, take every line in AOTC. Every thing he said was entirely predictable. It was as if his lines were written so he merely "sounds" like Yoda, not thinks like him. So unfortunately he offers no perfectly patterned words of wisdom. Instead we hear lines like, "to the forward command center take me." Okay, this line should have been taken out during the final edit. Not only does this make Yoda sound like an idiot, but also it adds useless exposition that could have been better demonstrated with action. I suppose you could argue that since he's younger in these movies, he's not as wise, but I'm sure that's not what Lucas has in mind when he's writing the script.
02-27-03, 09:22 PM
#43
Senior Member
I was 5 when the film came out. After seeing it, I put my Han Solo figure in my freezer until 1983...I didn't want to play with it until I knew what happened to the toy.
02-28-03, 01:01 AM
#44
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Originally posted by Hulkabrgr
I was 5 when the film came out. After seeing it, I put my Han Solo figure in my freezer until 1983...I didn't want to play with it until I knew what happened to the toy.
I was 5 when the film came out. After seeing it, I put my Han Solo figure in my freezer until 1983...I didn't want to play with it until I knew what happened to the toy.
02-28-03, 01:20 AM
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Call me twisted...BUT I've always enjoyed the Dark Side....
They were always cooler looking...and more bad-ass....
I would cheer on the Empire in the beginning Hoth battle scenes...bwahahaha....bwahahaha!
In all seriousness tho...Empire was the only movie of the three to really keep you hanging and guessing....and was the only one that left the Empire on the winning side more or less....
They were always cooler looking...and more bad-ass....
I would cheer on the Empire in the beginning Hoth battle scenes...bwahahaha....bwahahaha!
In all seriousness tho...Empire was the only movie of the three to really keep you hanging and guessing....and was the only one that left the Empire on the winning side more or less....
02-28-03, 03:02 PM
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The most emotionally resonant to me with the character development and the dark aspects of the script.
I loved the original Star Wars but this makes everything mean more by going heavier into the character devopment.
On the other hand, the third one was a bit too lite as with the new trilogy. Theres nothing there that really means as much as in Empire!
I loved the original Star Wars but this makes everything mean more by going heavier into the character devopment.
On the other hand, the third one was a bit too lite as with the new trilogy. Theres nothing there that really means as much as in Empire!
02-28-03, 03:10 PM
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I dont know, after reading someof the posts, I am surpised to see anyone rate the last two movies as good.
They are empty pieces of sci fi much the way Trek is these days.
Farscape is much along the lines of Empire these days and thats what I like.
You can tell Lucas and not Lawrence Kasdan writers them these days.
All effects and no good character development.
They are empty pieces of sci fi much the way Trek is these days.
Farscape is much along the lines of Empire these days and thats what I like.
You can tell Lucas and not Lawrence Kasdan writers them these days.
All effects and no good character development.
03-04-03, 07:53 PM
#49
Senior Member
tanman:
sorry for the delay, I was out all weekend. It is a 100 percent true story.
One other small reason why I love the film:
When R2 is fixing C-3PO at the end, 3PO tells R2" You know better than to trust a strange computer". i always took that line as a way of teaching kids not to trust strangers.
sorry for the delay, I was out all weekend. It is a 100 percent true story.
One other small reason why I love the film:
When R2 is fixing C-3PO at the end, 3PO tells R2" You know better than to trust a strange computer". i always took that line as a way of teaching kids not to trust strangers.
03-04-03, 08:07 PM
#50
DVD Talk Legend
I wish we could for once have a discussion of SW without brigning up the inadequecies of the PT.
The interesting thing about ESB and the twist that Vader is Luke's father is that many people at the time, myself included, didn't buy into it. I remember a collective gasp going over my ROTJ audience when Yoda confirmed that Vader was indeed Anakin.
The interesting thing about ESB and the twist that Vader is Luke's father is that many people at the time, myself included, didn't buy into it. I remember a collective gasp going over my ROTJ audience when Yoda confirmed that Vader was indeed Anakin.