Filmmaker

Originally psted by elektra:
One big favor they can do to us all, end Trek now!

Oh, I couldn't possibly support that stance--there's a whole universe still to explore! What I would support is bringing in fresh blood, with its attendant fresh perspective, as was done not once, but really twice, with the original series' films. The fact that Berman & Co. have finally pulled themselves out of their TV-writing-specific rut and employed a non-TREK writer and director for NEMESIS spells great possibilities for TREK's future to me...

das Monkey

I agree ... I have no problem with the legacy continuing, so long as assmasters like Berman and Braga can stay away from the films. As for the TV shows, they're already dead to me. The way they ended Voyager was slap in the face of 35 years of Trek, and this new show offers nothing redeeming in any way. I'll support anything with fresh blood.

das

Vampyr

Just an observation:

I think it's amazing (no matter if one like ST or not) - Is there any other theme in motion picture history which has accounted for more sequels? I can only think of James Bond being in this class for longevity.

Filmmaker

Originally posted by Vampyr:
I think it's amazing (no matter if one like ST or not) - Is there any other theme in motion picture history which has accounted for more sequels? I can only think of James Bond being in this class for longevity.

Well, if you think about it, STAR TREK has just about the most perfect formula for guaranteeing longevity--a broad cast, on an ongoing assignment, with the entire universe, and timeline of universal history, as their "play thing"...the limit on STAR TREK storylines is truly marked by nothing less than the limit of human imagination. The longevity of the James Bond franchise, on the other hand? Man, I just don't know...I guess bullets and boobs go a long way with (IMO) the more unevolved members of the male race...

das Monkey

It does beg the question ... which is worse shameless exploitation: the latest Bond film or the latest B&B Trek show?

das

Filmmaker

I vote Bond, since I never picked up your vehement distaste of Berman and company--don't get me wrong, I think that their vision isn't half of what Roddenberry's was, and they've been stuck in something of a creative rut for years now, but in my opinion, that has yielded what I think of more as TREK-lite (save for the phenomenal DS9), than your stronger accusations of total anti-TREK. Unlike yourself, I do find ENTERPRISE to be a substantial improvement over VOYAGER (though admittedly, not a series I see as mirroring Roddenberry's likely original vision of pre-TREK), but even so, on one issue, we are in complete agreement--the time for new blood in the TREK ranks is sorely overdue...

Eric F

When was the last time B&B could come up with an interesting story? 10yrs ago? Certainly none of the episodes of Enterprise. Just have T'Pol or Hoshi spend alot of time in the decontamination chamber rubbing down Archer. Now that's a story!

As Nemesis gets closer to release, my expectations are lowering. If anything I think this movie will flop bigtime. It might do well in foreign release and on DVD, but I don't see how it can do well at the theaters.

The next step for B&B will be to abandon theater releases for ST films and just do direct to video movies. Watch.

elektra

Filmmaker - I have to support das on this one. Enterprise is awful, IMO. Since I watch shows on the WB I can't help but see the previews for upcoming shows. The most recent one was another transporter incident? Not only is it uninteresting, but unimaginative and lame. Oh, and let's not forget in the preview the captain saying, "We've lost Hoshi." But because it's Star Trek, we know that there is not even a remote chance that she's dead. So, not even a question or uncertainty, that you get with better writers, I know she's not dead. I've stopped watching it and will no longer watch Trek on TV unless it's reruns of the better series. I'll watch the Trek movies as long as there is some good stories to tell, but the shows haven't done that for a long time and life is too short to watch suck TV. I can't be one of the mindless Trek Drones who watch because it's Trek. I can't even watch with the hope that it will get better, because I don't want to sit through several crappy episodes to see one gem among them. I'm all for them ending bad TV shows, let the series sit for a couple of years and yes, get some fresh blood in to tell some good stories and make sure that fresh blood is better than the crap we've gotten.

Filmmaker

Fair enough, elektra...I just don't see ENTERPRISE, and even VOYAGER, in the wholly worthless terms you and das do. Are the vast majority of episodes anywhere up to the snuff of TOS, TNG or DS9--no, by no means, but I still see worth, enjoyment and even the occasional burst of inspiration out of the current-most episodes, so I haven't felt the need to walk away from the saga quite yet. I concede that it might just be that Roddenberry's basic concept is so strong, it is able to withstand most of the damage Berman and Co. may try to cause with their incompetence with the material, and that all that is left to find worth in are those conceptual "ghosts" Gene's left behind, but again, so far that's been good enough for me. The core of STAR TREK remains, to me, unsullied, even if much of its initial vision, inspiration and impactive social commentary has recently diminished...

cooper2000

I am with Das and Elecktra. I think Enterprise is horrible. Its as if they just dont care anymore, they build the set and crank out mediocre TV each week just to have a "Trek" show on the air and making Paramount an easy income and from what I read over at trekweb today, Berman wants to do the same with the movies, no matter what cast it is.
Scary thought.
I am a big fan of Trek past (up until DS9) and even continued watchingt Voyager over the course of 7 years but I wont do it again just to watch a Trek show.
Give me something that challenges me (Farscape anyone?). Trek has not done this for years. I see no bursts of creativity, it's still in Voyager mode.

I have higher hopes for the next Trek film. I want it to be good but there are still reservations because Berman is still in charge.

elektra

cooper2000 - I also feel that Farscape is a well done show with much more intresting characters and stories. Again, that's another problem for me with Enterprise, the characters aren't even that interesting. It is sad to see the vision run into the ground like a race horse past it's prime.

Rogue588

Chalk up another ex-Enterprise watcher. It just got to be too ridiculous/boring.

This afternoon I heard a commercial for this week's "second chance" ep of Enterprise. After that, the tag for next week's repeat was -- "the episode that rewrites Star Trek history".

Also, I agree with Elektra. When you have to actually stop, think, & then finally give up when trying to think of a character's name, that really says something about the show.....

elektra

And that's just it, I find no enjoyment in the show as I don't even feel mildy entertained. Just bored and depressed that Trek has sunk to this low of a quality.

Filmmaker

So I'm getting the impression you guys don't dig ENTERPRISE...

elektra

Well, at least you're not lacking in intuition...

Vampyr

I have to admit that I liked it in the begining. However, it has become what I was afraid it would.......Too soft with plots and character development guided more on the political and social leanings of the writers than for what is truly exciting.

I remember hearing an interview of one of the writers of TOS. She said that when everything is predictable and the important things always work out in the end it is great in real life, but boring on screen. I fully agree.

I'm really very sad at the way ST has gone since TOS. It could have had an even longer life than it will eventually have and have been far better too.

A while back I wrote a number of unpublished ideas and one unpublished book based on ST. In fact, some of the very idea I had years ago were actually used (in some way) within the current framework. That said, the same ideas which I took in what I thought and still think to be a more interesting direction were taken to a dead end by those who control ST.

In fact, much of the idea of the new production I have in worn and fading notes which I wrote well over 10 years ago. I'm sure my notes were never seen by anyone involved with the project. That's not my point. i'm just saying the ideas which are close to those I wrote are (from what I can tell), also being taken in the wrong direction.

I'd be happy to share some of them with you via e-mail if you'd like. I'd be interested in what you think.

Just my .02

Breakfast with Girls

I can see the trailer for the next Star Trek movie:

Fade in on a starscape.

"We told you that a generation's final voyage would begin in the last film. We lied. It'll finish in this one. Probably.

"Featuring Leonard Nimoy, in his final Star Trek role!"

Cut to evil alternate Spock with goatee.

Spock: "I'm Spock, and look, I'm evil!"

"And hey, Kirk's back somehow!"

William Shatner climbs out from the rubble of Generations and says, "Huh! Guess I'm not dead after all!"

"Also featuring: Kathryn Janeway, Ronnie from Boston Public, a clone of Data, Riker's son Joey Riker, 50 morphing Borg from the future, Ronald McDonald, and a potato!

"Not featuring: Captain Sisko.

"Come see the REAL final journey of a generation & company in Star Trek: Eleven!"

das Monkey

As a HUGE* Trekkie (many make this claim, but I assure you ... I can back it up), I gave Voyager many ... MANY ... chances. I've been a little less forgiving of Enterprise, but I've certainly kept an open mind and was more than willing to eat any bad words about B&B if the show was solid. In all fairness, Voyager tried to do some interesting things, and for a while, it was close to being a pretty good show, but two constant themes moved it from "this isn't that bad, I guess" to "I'm going to kill someone" territory:

1) Inability to write strong female characters, so to compromise, male characters were written to be idiots (Beltran, I feel your pain).

2) Reckless disregard for any sense of morality, culminating in the series finale, which ranks near the top of my list of worst moments in television history and easily the lowest point in 35+ years of Trek.

What they did cannot be forgiven, but I was willing to bury it and give Enterprise a shot. I will continue to watch Enterprise despite it ranking a 10 on the Lame-o-meter. While we may disagree, I can assure anyone who cares that my hatred for B&B is not superficial or knee-jerk. I've detailed many of the reasons on this forum before, but in short, they have no concept of why Star Trek -- a show with average acting at best, lame special effects, and some really stupid episodes -- has endured for so long. Somehow, I think Berman possesses some of that understanding, but ever since Braga showed him "the way" (read: look at the boobies!!!), whatever glimpse he had was lost. Was it lost forever? I dunno. But I'm tired of waiting around to find out.

das

* Not body size, mind you.

Eric F

I think we'll find out in the next film that there is alot more breast augmentation going on in the Trek universe than we originally thought.

Vampyr

I think it's time to post this link: KAHN!!!!!!

elektra

das - I feel your pain my friend. I just decided I can't take it anymore and gave up. Those two will croak off at some point.

cooper2000

Loved the link Vampyr.

HurricaneKicker

Ive had my favorite and not so favorite Star Trek movies but I for one am glad they are still making them . I was depressed as hell as a kid when the series ended.I was elated when the first movie hit the theaters and that elation has been there with each subsequent release! I for one am glad they are keeping it alive. Sure you are going to have your ocassional duds but I will always like them because they are.........Star Trek. A lot of people called Insurrection and Generations duds, but they are two of my favorites after Wrath Of Kahn and Voyage Home!!

HurricaneKicker

By the way...Enterprise is the best Trek show since the original!! The ship is the best looking ship we have ever had. Ive already gone out and found two models for my theater room memorabilia shelves. Ive never done that with any of the other ships except getting a pewter original enterprise from the Franklin Mint.

Vampyr

Glad to know that