THE ALL- AROUND 'RESPONDING TO 10 POSTS AT ONCE' POST
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>>A perfect 10 on the DVD scale equates to about a 3 on the Blu-ray scale.
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Cite your research with refs
have you published any peer-reviewed papers ON THIS SUBJECT that have made the journals? :-)
Do you have tenure and at what institution? Current research grant proposals to SONY?
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Yes some people go anal to get the black levels just right and the LFE working or they simply cant enjoy the movie-here we think nothing of spending $250 on connection cables
We should be thankful for what we have
People are starving-or here-losing homes and jobs at an ever faster rate...and people whine about their contrast or edge enhancement.

Its gonna get worse -this gleaned from reading various RE, stock, financial sites and at the market ticker forums.com- a BB clearing house for all the above.
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>>See this example, on the left of the vertical line the BD capture, on the right the DVD.
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Unless it didnt load properly, if that A/B represents BR vs SDVD than I think Ill stick to SDVD-ive a good eye I didnt see anything that made me say WOW!
In fact, at first I though you were joking around-and then I saw the marginal differences-you shelled out how much for that!? Where is this all going to end? after people have bought their 5th copy of a movie in the latest media delivery mode-theyll still be screaming for discs that look BETTER than film itself.
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I was reading the Neilsen/Videoscan/Endgaget site-they publish industry weekly sales numbers-http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/videoscan
BRD cannot seem to crack and keep 10% avg of sales while SDVS are holding at 90%-avg this for Aug-summer may be a bad time to cite numbers, but just extrapolate the whole playing field down a few notches-some weeks SDVD sales shot up and vise versa for BR- are we seeing a niche? An odd ref at same to an article early this year-noted that when HD dropped out of the race-sales of BR plunged. Go figure. BR has had 6 months of being the only game in town-so they cant blame HD

A recent NYT article or blog which Im trying to finds states that SONY is in big trouble;
Financially in general, slowing sales, a recall of thousands of VAIO laptops, a recall/poor sales of PS3-and none too stellar sales of BR. The article went on to quote one of those fancy NYC financial analysts-who said with the economy worsening-and some very bad numbers came out on Friday-there is some trepidation at SONY that this xmas could make or break BR.

(Wait till the Alt-A mortgage and derivative tsunami hits-when the FTC Audit makes 'em open their books ON WALL STREET this fall -tis said that this will make the sub prime thing look like "a picnic")

I'm not a compulsive buyer, so don't think I own several editions of one film on one format because of a slight quality improvement on each release.
I know people who can't go back easily to DVD, because of the picture and sound quality of BD or HD-DVD. It's not my case, since I still own old HK VCDs,
because there's no other way to watch some HK movies, what matters first is the film.
The gap between BD and DVD is not that big than it was between VHS and DVD, it's not a reason to say Blu-Ray doesn't improve anything.

And could you please start your format war and other divagations somewhere else, don't expect me to get involve in this.

>>don't expect me to get involve() in this...
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Nobody is twisting your arm to do so.....as far as I can see...

Seashellz,



I couldn't agree with you any more...the moral of the story is that consumers are getting suckered and wasting tons of money, especially for the ones that are replacing their old "excellent audio/video quality" dvds with their blu ray counterparts.

This particular dvd vs blu ray war belongs in here, because it's ridiculous to be upset over not being able to find a blu ray version of a disturbing, underground film like SALO, when there is a fantastic DVD of this...The happiest day in my dvd life was when THE HOLY MOUNTAIN finally got released on NTSC Region 1 compared to the crappy Italian PAL DVD which looked and sounded like a 3rd generation VHS tape. The new version of THE HOLY MOUNTAIN dvd is awesome, and i'm not going to feel upset, frustrated, or thinking about updating to a blu ray version of this film if it comes out on BLU RAY...

I can only really understand the Blu Ray arguement if it's for sports, nature, and porn programs/films.

"Some men you just can't reach...."

Absolutely no one is getting suckered into anything. No one is forcing you to buy an HD version of a film you don't wish to own (Tutut is 100% correct). The only suckering I see around here is trying to prove a point that a great looking standard-def version of a film is equivalent to a great looking high-def version of the same film. Let's make it very clear: this is as bogus of a statement as they come.

(On a side note, Toddly, what standard-def version of a film you've compared to an HD version of the same film? Could you give us an example as I am trying to understand why you are not seeing a difference? Or, you don't want to see a difference?

And all I have to say is that this is a terribly immature statement. In fact, here I am going to go on record and state that I am far more impressed with HD presentations of black/white films than I am with the latest buzzing action extravaganza receiving an HD treatment. An example for you: Great Expectations on Blu-ray looks nothing short of amazing on a big screen (and this isn't even a full-blown restoration). I also have a rough-copy of another classic film that was sent to me way in advance by the distributor and though I cannot go into detail yet to claim that it could come even close to its SDVD replica is as laughable of an attempt at hypocrisy as they come.
So, there you have it: B/W cinema in HD could not be challenged by standard-def at all. Furthermore, by far this year the biggest leaps from SDVD to BR in terms of audio/video quality have been on B/W films.

I am sorry Toddly, as much as I enjoy your posts in this forum I think that you are off by a mile on this issue and it clearly shows.

Pro-B

Black and white films do look amazing. La Haine looks amazing.

You own better equipment than 99% of the general public in both North America and Europe, and therefore, better equipment than 99.99% of the world. IOW, you do own top quality equipment.

Pro-Bass,
1. I don't like the look of new mainstream Hollywood-type films on Blu Ray. Transformers, Die Hard 4, or Spiderman for example, which I love the look on DVD. I just don't like the ultra crispness effect and everything being crystal clear, which makes an almost pseudo 3D-effect. I like my movies to be 2-dimensional, in focus, non-pixilated. I probably prefer watching movies with dirt, scratches, and grain.

2. My lack of enthusiasm over Blu Ray is an extension of super clean DVD restorations, such as on the Raiders of Lost Ark DVD. The clarity, clarity, crispness makes many scenes (such as the opening scene with Molina and Idol) look like watching an obvious stage set. So whenever I've seen a Blu Ray movie playing in electronics stores, I only see the "stage set" factor.

3. I've never seen a Blu Ray in someone's home, so yes, I haven't seen a proper set-up. Nor have I seen a cool film (old film or foreign film) on Blu Ray. But then again, your comments about old films may be a negative for me again. I have the best DVD versions of the Charlie Chaplin movies and Three Stooges episodes for example, and I'm not crazy about the restoration in which it looks like I'm watching a new soap opera in black and white. It's as if Charlie Chaplin or the Three Stooges just made their movies a couple days ago, instead of 70 years ago...

3. I never said DVD looks better than Blu Ray. I just personally prefer the look of DVD and I prefer my films a little grungy (as long as they are in focus, non-pixilated, and no interlacy-type horizontal lines running across screen).

4. I've always thought that most DVD collectors and now Blu Ray collectors with collections of over 100 dvds/blu rays are out-of-control, compulsive consuming suckers, including myself. I'm not saying anyone is forced to buy something, I just don't understand the compulsion to buy the Blu Ray version if you were very happy with the DVD version. If the DVD version looked crappy on one's own HDTV, then by all means, buy the Blu Ray. Then I understand. Are people getting that "VHS to DVD" feeling in which "ooo, look at that Blu Ray, what was I thinking when watching DVD? I can't even look at DVD now after seeing how Blu Ray looks." If Blu Ray lovers feel this way, I don't feel it. I loved the vast difference between "VHS to DVD" and I couldn't watch a VHS tape again. But I don't see the vast difference or even care about the minor better video quality difference of the "DVD to Blu Ray" factor.

5. And Pro-Bass, you know my love of foreign flicks. If I get into Blu Ray now, it will be nothing but frustration and pain for me, with all this bullcrap with Blu Ray Region coding and expensive prices of importing. For me to personally really appreciate Blu Ray, I'm going to have to wait 10 years until prices come down and a $150 multi-region Blu Ray player comes on the market. I have enough of a challenge searching for foreign DVDs that are anamorphic and have english subtitles.

What a load of sanctimonious nonsense.

"Eat your lima beans and like them because people are starving in Africa."

No one is forcing you to buy a product you don't want or can't afford. Why are you posting in a Blu-ray thread?

Why are you posting in a Blu-ray thread?

Josh Z, it's all related. I was talking about what's the purpose of owning a movie like SALO on Blu Ray?

Um, watching it in it's possible technical presentation? I guess I should be content watching my dad's fourth-gen VHS dub. Why even bother with the DVD then?

But you very much contradict yourself. You said in this very thread that you like the video look from the movie theater. Let's make it clear: DVD does not allow for it, BR does.

Whatever the super-clean restoration is on the DVD it would look even more super-clean on Blu-ray. So, you should be ecstatic.

Let me assure you: you don't have the best versions of Charlie Chapin's movies. Mr.Karmitz has initiated a massive restoration project that would deliver these on HD in a manner that has never before been seen. Hopefully 2009 is the year they are finalized. The rest of your comment...I have no idea how to respond. And just for the record the R1 Warner DVD Chaplin sets are very much flawed, Do some research and read why!!

Once again, this is a very immature statement to say the least. Your interest in cinema should justify your investment(s) in a format, not the other way around.
That is why you fail to understand the argument here. I cannot speak of other members that have responded in this thread but I certainly am not a DVD/Blu-ray collector. I collect films and desire to have them in the best possible presentation replicating the theater experience (I did countless upgrades from VHS to LD to DVD and now BR). Now, Blu-ray allows for it, SDVD does not. If you only see collecting as a form of suckering then perhaps you should stop wasting money on films altogether. Because sooner rather than later you will be disappointed with the depreciation of your investment. So, I am not a Blu-ray lover, I love the fact that the format allows me to reexperience the films I treasure as close to how their creators intended them to look as possible. And I don't think that you even remotely understand the difference.


An even simpler answer: thus far Blu-ray releases have been much easier to research and acquire than SDVD releases were back in the days. Perhaps you don't understand that well because you entered the region-free discussions much later when everything was already settled but allow me to make it clear: none of the obstacles we have witnessed with Blu-ray so far are exclusive to the format. On the contrary, they were very much part of SDVD's maturation process and as far as I am concerned much more painful.

And this is just the capper, I have no idea what is meant to reveal? What's the purpose of owning the Chaplin sets on DVD?

Pro-B

Basically, I prefer the less-video quality look of Chaplin films and Raiders of Lost Ark on VHS or 16 mm projector.

Then go back and watch them on VHS and stop threadcrapping in this forum.

And as far as I can see, your post above looks like a drooling troll people could naively feed.

My bad, I didn't mean the average or minimum equipment to watch DVD or BD, I meant the minimum to compare DVD editions or between DVD and BD.
Among people who watch Blu-Rays, I don't think my equipment is on the top.

I read all your arguments for SD, it seems HD means video/razor sharp picture to you, and it's not.
You could have this kind of image in SD with a LCD projector and a HTPC with the right filters applied on the video output.

You should go to a store specialized in Home Theatre and watch a Blu-Ray in good conditions to make your own idea.

I'm a tad annoyed, I missed the news that this disc is going to be Region B only unless I hear otherwise (Anyone know if the just announced Oppo bluray player will be region free?) also ordered the standard dvd edition.

thanks Noirfan

Tutut,
I would like to find a home theater store that's not playing the blu rays of Spiderman 3, Kingdom of Heaven, A Knight's Tale, or an annoying Blu Ray sampler. And on an unrelated note but more important issue for me, I would like to find a store with different affordable projector displays as well. Do you know any good stores of either in NYC?

Lame

The best way is to borrow or rent the films you want to see and take them with for testing, for example some that are good such as POTC
or Casino Royale or some crappy Blu-Rays such as The House of Flying Dagger. There's a picture quality list on AVS forum.
I can't help you about the stores, but I think you should wait for some budget Full HD (1920x1080) projectors arriving soon or get a 1280x720 model such as Sanyo Z5, Panasonic PT AX100 or PT AX200, Optoma HD70 or some Infocus.