Assuming we actually see HD players and software in the near future, will PAL to NTSC (ATSC?) conversion still be an issue? I assume there will still be region coding, but it will be circumventable.

Apparently no. It won't be an issue.

Region coding probably still will.

Correct!! With HD...all of the PAL/NTSC "issues" currently one has to deal with (including crappy PAL-NTSC ports by cheating R1 companises...and esp. a very cheap UK label which I won't "advertise" on this forum).

The scarry thing....

If regional coding comes to play though.....GAME OVER!!


Pro-B

Yes, it'll be an issue. There are two main difference when comparing PAL to NTSC. One is the frame rate and the other the color space. With HD we'll only have to deal with the frame rate. I'm already seeing 1080i 50hz (25fps) material on some Euro HD sat providers. Maybe it'll go away, maybe it won't. Some other Euro HD providers are just showing what they get, whether it's 50 or 60hz.

well...at least the bigger problem is taken care of then... but i guess "anamorphic" and "non-anamorphic" discs won't be an issue. So there probably will be no reason to go region-free...but who knows what the future holds.

Yeah, there is a lot of debate going on now regarding region coding for the new format(s). Who knows which way it will go at this point, but I can imagine that if region coding does happen, it will be harder to hack. Oh well, if worse comes to worse, I'll be more than willing to import a Region 2 player at least.

You see...that is what I was considering (well, "considering" is the incorrect term as the market is yet to see these machines) but there is one thing you would have to take into account...if the current scheme the studios offer turns out to be the one the market will follow...you and I and everyone else importing a R2 player becomes a non-issue. WHY>

You would have to plug-in your HD-DVD player to a tracking device of some sort-phone line/broadband line etc...so big-brother can track down your equipment. At least that is what the studios are considering at this point. I spoke with an industry insider a few months ago and the format won't be approved for "mass consumption" unless a proper tracking device is in place. So, with other words...as soon as you plug in your R2 machine and you attempt to view non-R1 material big-brother will be aware of it...they would send a shock signal and fry your equipment. One possible solution would be to have some sort of an offsetting equipment that would allow you to block the schok signal...but how many would be willing to experiment so to speak.

At this point I think that it is all...what-if's and what-if-not's...as even the studio guys do not know for sure how the market will come to play. If HD-DVD players are indeed highly "trackable" and with R1-only options...disallowing non-R1 viewing....I am not game!! I'd rather stay "regular" and use the current DVD format. As it is there are very few films that I would replace in my library (probably about 20) with HD-DVD versions. The foreign films/art house productions I buy will be the last aspect of the existing market that studios will target anyway. In the begining will be blockbusters-only as I see it.


To sum it all up...unless HD-DVD players are region-free (and we have every reason to believe that they will not be at this point)...I wish them all the luck as there will be no money the studios will see coming from me. I AM MOST CERTAINLY NOT INTERESTED!!! Plain and simple!!

Ciao,
Pro-B

Yeah, I didn't take into consideration that whole issue with the possibility of having players connected to phone/broadband lines. I sincerely think though, if that ends up being the case with the new format, it will be dead right from the beginning. Most people would not want to give up that kind of control. Playing your own discs on such a machine, one that could end up getting "zapped" if you try do do the wrong thing, would not sit well with virtually any consumer. No one wants big brother to have that much control with their own players and discs that they bought with their hard earned money. Remember Divx? I'm sure one reason why it died very quickly was due to that same issue. Like you, if the new format does have such tracking features, I'll refuse to buy as well. Hopefully the studios that are requesting this feature will realize the huge problems it would cause for a new format and will back down. It would be a huge mistake otherwise.

One thing I hope will dissuade big brother is the adult market. I don't think many will embrace a format tracking device that "reads" production data...such and such HD-DVD player "read" such and such title ...that would just make the day for moralists everywhere. It is basically like having a never-ending library log of titles...some acceptable, some with questionable morality!! I love it. This board will explode!!

Pro-B

I highly doubt this claim. I have heard from an industry insider too, who claims exactly the opposite. I will 'out' my insider so that his credentials may be evaluated. He is Amir Majidimehr VP at Microsoft and member of the HD-DVD forum.

PC-hosted playback software is likely to require phone-home capability because 1) it easy and 2) they think that they can use phone-home to stop people from hacking the software. But standalone players will not phone-home.

It is not a claim but what I discussed over a cup of coffee while talking about baseball. I hope you are correct though as I am certainly interested to see how exactly they will keep track of the product that enters the HD market. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of the current planning...but the person I spoke with actually works for a major studio. He is not as high-profile of a person as the gentleman you specified above so I think that your argument has more clout than what I was told. Anyway you look at it however....it seems like, at this point, very little is known about the entire system that will be in place.

My question to you....what is your information on regional coding?

Pro-B

My understanding is that region coding will continue. I don't have a citable reference for that, just an impression that I've picked up along the way. Personally, I expect region-code hacking to be just as common too - because the demand for out-of-region discs, particularly R1 discs in non-R1 countries is just to strong to resist.

Expect to have Blu-Ray be a real stickler about "content rights management" which will mean Region Free Blu-Rays might not be a reality for quite a while.

What about our right to privacy? What about fair use? My money, my movie. End of story! If I have to install another phone jack, who is paying for it? Sheer lunacy, if you ask me.

Between UMD (which is really just about cashing in on the ignorant and mindless consumerist) and these potential specs, DVD may be the last format i'll have to deal with for a LONG time.

The DMCA did away with those. They don't exist anymore.

As much as I'm willing to re-purchase a good part of my collection in HD, they're losing me as a customer if I have to get a working phone line in my apt. I don't have one now and won't in the future.

Hello? Is anyone actually reading this thread?

Hello? yes i am. I am also not going to take the word of an internet "insider" such as yourself just cause he says so.

Didn't New Zeland or Australia outlaw region coding?

If they did decide to include some sort of required hook-up, they would only insure that they have an instant failure on their hands.

Anyone remember Divx?

No phone? I would expect nothing less from a digitalfreak

Nope. Only a cell. Digital, of course.

"What country do you think this is?"


HD/BR are DOA if studios believe they can get away with this tracking crap.

I plan on not having a land-line in my new house, so I guess I'll just have to stick with plain old DVD.

-d

I think it's funny that people are arguing over whose "insider" is more reliable while the details are still being hammered out. I know people in my own company, in the same department, working on this who can not reach consensus!

I don't think any appliance will be using a phone or internet connection, BR or HD-DVD, this is just my "no insider" guess. I say this because:

a) there's no precedent... I know that's not a big point, but satellite needs a phone line to do PPV, but there's a large, large contingent of customers who just don't do PPV via remote, all the installers in my area register the recievers somewhere else before the install even takes place usually to get around the phone line requirement. I have a Directv reciever that hasn't been hooked into a phone line in about three years.
b) a growing number of people don't have a phone line (land line customers are all moving to VOIP or cell phones)
c) Internet connectivity, most folks aren't savvy enough to connect ethernet or wi-fi to a home appliance on their own.
and
d) some people are gonna be spooked about plugging in a "online connection" of any kind to their player. As somebody else said, think adult movies.


Anyways, back on topic, there's actually 25fps(PAL) HD content?? I thought PAL was just for standard definition?