Oh, a few more things for which that streaming combines the best of cable TV and physical discs for TV shows: staying current, catching up, and binging.

Previously, to stay up to date on a show, you had to watch it as it aired. Re-runs were sporadic, and a DVD season set didn't get released until after the season finished, sometimes not until the next season was about to start airing. So if you didn't have OTA or cable TV watching live (or, with DVRs, previously recorded), you were likely to be at least a season behind. This is why TV resisted serialization for so long, because broadcasters didn't want a person missing one week of a show to mean that they couldn't just watch the rest without missing something. DVDs helped, I caught up on both House and Lost via the first season DVD sets, but in that case the hope was really for the DVDs to help drive new viewers to watch live (or at least DVR recorded within a week). Cable shows did help a bit with serialized shows with re-running a new episode later in the same week, and periodically maybe running a marathon of episodes that aired so far that season. However, streaming made it much easier to catch up with a show, and then stay current with that show. You didn't have to buy previous seasons on DVD and then watch the new one on TV as it aired, both old and new episodes were on the same service, and the service would notify you of new episodes.

And streaming improved the binging experience. Cable would do marathons occasionally, but few people could probably sit down and watch those uninterrupted in real time. DVRs could help for both capturing an old episode marathon and catching new episodes as they aired, but it was something you had to set up ahead of anything airing, and there were always space limitations. Often, binging a show on my DVR was often somewhat accidental, typically I'd have been busy or distracted with other shows, and let one show build up several recordings before sitting down and watching them. With streaming, it's much more conscious to choose to binge a show. I didn't have to "plan" to binge it so I could build up recordings, I just choose the show and go. Likewise, physical discs can let you binge, typically a season at a time, but the fact that most releases have at most 4 "1 hour" episodes (42-44 minutes per episode for shows that originally aired with commercials) per disc, means that disc swapping comes into play, which can slow down and even halt the binge session. That may be a good thing for someone who deliberately wants to limit their TV viewing to 2 hours a night, but I think a lot of people prefer just picking a show from a list and instantly watching it for many episodes at least until Netflix asks if you're still watching. Even that initial choice of watching a show that will instantly start on streaming with a push of a button, vs going to a shelf to grab a case, open the case to take out the disc, insert the disc into the player, etc. can lead one to choosing the show that's streaming.

So streaming lets you watch shows when you want how you want as easily as changing a TV channel. You can stay current, or not. You can binge, or not. It's the consumers choice, instead of dictated by the limitations of the particular delivery system of either OTA/cable TV or physical disc releases.

I'll certainly grant you that, and accede to the fact that, yes, for single-viewing streaming is perfectly fine, convenient, and "better" than cable or renting. I was also pointing out, however, that the content-providers have planned for this, know that it's how most people prefer to consume their content these days. What is frightening is that, for the true connoisseurs (we, the collector fringe), streaming is greatly going to limit our options and even ability to continue to collect in the future, especially at the quality and echelon that we've become accustomed to and "spoiled" by during the last 5 - 10 years. These last precious years have been a veritable treasure trove for physical media. Many hundreds of titles so obscure that I *never* thought I'd ever be graced with the chance to see them during my lifetime have been released, many in astounding quality which bests the original theatrical presentation. Quite a few personal holy grails have been fulfilled!

I posit that we got very lucky, and that it's sadly the end of a very great era.

I certainly agree that the collector fringe has been very fortunate, and that this has been a great era indeed for the treatment afforded so many movies on disc.

It's also been a rather expensive era, though, even when stocking up during sales. And sometimes those "treasure troves" can become outsized and unwieldy. Clutter, basically (which I suppose is the whole point of this thread); much of which may never get watched more than once because there's always more in the pipelines (not unlike streaming, although that at least eliminates the physical clutter, if not the mental). And the seemingly growing number of boutique labels in particular have made a hard science out of convincing a large portion of that collector fringe of the "Importance!™" of movies that really aren't important, and which during their original theatrical and/or home video runs were often rightly blown off as cheap, opportunistic filler made by people who should've kept their day jobs and probably did. I often single out Vinegar Syndrome (with their 'you'll just die if you don't buy our Black Friday reveals' hucksterism) and their sub-labels in this regard, although a lot of distributors follow the same playbook now, especially when it comes to anything obscure and (often rightly) forgotten. One can't deny the efforts they put into exhuming, restoring and supplementing every piece of DTV and SOV shit from the 80's to today as if it's an undiscovered work of art, but reading social media (and forum) responses to announcements sometimes leaves me scratching my head, thinking "Really? That's a 'day one!!!!' full-price blind buy for this many people?" Sometimes it seems like there's a very fine line between "true connoisseurs" and trained seals, paying inflated prices for "obscurities" that actually were often available super cheap for ages on DVD so one could at least test drive them long before obsessive compulsions might trigger regrettable outlays on deluxe uber-magnet-flippy-boxes supplemented with obscene amounts of printed flotsam, multiple commentaries, and extras galore because the people who originally made these films don't have much else going on these days.

Even further up the quality food chain, it's starting to feel like all the premium "classic" genre titles (aside from new releases) have been special-editioned to death. No wonder people are perfectly fine with streaming them. How much more can they squeeze out of the physical media fringe? Oh wait . . . 4K day one baby!! Add a new interview or three with people who are often already present in the legacy extras and you're ready to rake in the dough! (Cough-RoadHouse-Cough)

Regarding streaming, I think the content providers were right to plan for their option being "perfectly fine" with a majority of viewers, catering to and shaping the behaviour of that majority and enjoying hefty profits for comparatively little effort, and introducing far more people to the cinema and television of foreign cultures than physical media ever did. As I mentioned, it's leads to a lot less clutter, for starters, and based on some comments in this thread, it's already had the desired effect on some folks here who probably found preference in being overwhelmed by online choices -- and the ability to pick and choose at will -- as opposed to being overwhelmed by physical stuff. I'll get there myself someday. I only stream in very short doses for now, with borrowed logins. Too much physical clutter to get through first, much of which ends up being sold (thankfully at a profit) on Amazon Marketplace up here.

I was recently in a used book/video store in downtown Toronto for the first time in a couple of years and noticed a much larger selection of Blu-rays and DVDs on display that ever before, all of it clearly acquired recently, and laid out in spine-up rows on a big table as well as on some floor-to-ceiling shelves in a side aisle. This was in addition to the two smaller shelves of somewhat overpriced, far too common stuff they often carry. But the prices on this stuff was half to two-thirds their usual rates, and everything was in tip-top shape, a mix of mostly mainstream stuff with a respectable lean toward cult and genre titles. Best of all was a decent selection of Severin, Synapse, Blue Underground and VS titles – many OOP – that were squirrelled away beside the store's creepily well-stocked vintage porn titles and thus not easily spotted (apparently, even R-rated erotic titles and Jess Franco crap are considered 'porn' in this place). I only picked up a few titles because I already own much of what constituted this obvious personal collection, but it was clearly a collection all the same. At the checkout, I joked that somebody must've downsized, and the guy said, "Sort of. This fella died and we had a family member give us a call to come and clear it out, over three thousand titles." Kinda got me to thinking, even as I was actually adding portions of the deceased's estate to my own! If anything, it strengthened my resolve to simply get through a lot of my own stacks, get them listed for sale (or added to the 'permanent collection', or donated if they hold little resale value), and gradually introduce more streaming into the mix down the road.

I never (not in many years anyway) watched TV shows on TV and I still don't/won't, whether broadcast or streaming. I always waited until they came out on physical media and added them to my collection (if they were collection-worthy). Now that they're not putting a lot of these good shows out on physical media, I may never get to see them because I won't pay out the monthly fees for a half dozen different streaming services just to watch them (especially when I have a collection of over 1400 good movies and TV shows I can watch anytime I want to). That's why I got rid of cable TV back in 2009 (unjustifiable expense IMHO). I may get rid of the 2 seasons of Stranger Things, what I have of Westworld and The Expanse, because if they aren't going to finish those shows on physical media then what's the point of owning what I do of them? Pisses me off they won't continue their shit on physical media. Fuck this new world order crap. Granted, I have shows they never finished beyond the first season, but I know they never got finished. That I know these aforementioned shows continued but I can't buy them to add to the already existing collection because of studio politics makes me mad as hell.

On the local evening news there was a 30-second ad for "Top Gun Maverick" on 4K & Digital. No mention of Blu-ray or DVD. Interesting as it's been a long time since I've seen a TV ad for any physical media in many years.

No loss-leader pricing for Top Gun either. Back in the day Best Buy would be practically giving away a title like this. I can wait though- and maybe it’ll show up on Paramount Plus soon enough (which my dad subscribes to) and I’ll decide I don’t even need it.

It'll presumably also be part of the Target's buy-2-get-1-free sale on Sunday.

Retail has largely moved away from loss-leader pricing for most every category. Consumers today are simply too sophisticated with pricing engines in their pockets (smartphones) ready at a moment's notice.

That's the thing though. You have 1400 titles, which should be more than enough for you for the rest of you're life. How long would it take you to watch all those titles? And yet... you want new content, not just watching/rewatching what you already own. And you're getting upset that your preferred method of obtaining and viewing new content isn't getting all the new content, even though you claim you're fine with what you already own.

Also, you don't have to be subscribed to every service at once. You can subscribe to one service for one month, binge watch what's available, cancel, subscribe to another service for the next month, binge, cancel, etc. A one month subscription to Netflix would let you watch season 3 & 4 of Stranger Things for less than buying them on Blu-ray would cost, plus you could watch a few other movies and TV shows in that month. Not to mention a few services offer free trials and/or discounts periodically. I got Disney+ for $0.99 for one month and binged a year's worth of MCU TV shows. Even if they got released on Blu-ray, and at good prices, that would've been $80 in purchases, for seasons of shows I enjoyed but likely won't ever revisit. From a value perspective, the one month subscription was the better choice.

I think there's a certain mentality that wants absolute control over the content they consume or want to consume, and maybe they also like the physical marker of consuming and enjoying. It's a bit like collecting vinyl or CDs or Books. But physical items take up space, both physically and mentally, and everyone has a limit on how much they want, although it varies from person to person, and sometimes when hitting that limit a person may take a step back and look at what they've collected and think "what actual value am I getting from all of this, and is it worth the cost?" And of course, this collector mentality has always been in the minority. Most people limit their collections in some way, if they collect at all, based on practicalities. People who buy books also borrow many from the library. People who listen to vinyl or CDs also listen to the radio or streaming, or even borrow CDs from the library. IF they collect, they only collect the special fraction of what they consume they feel is worth owning and having that instant access with no threat of it being unavailable to them for some reason (checked out of library, not playing on the radio right then, no re-runs on TV, streaming service lost the license, etc. ).

Streaming fills a niche that both TV broadcasts AND video rentals used to fill, but its more convenient and a better value. If you truly buy everything you watch and hold onto it forever after, then streaming may truly have no appeal. But for anyone who's ok with not outright owning a copy of everything they watch, streaming is the best option.

So can all the REAL record and video stores, which couldn't afford to do loss-leader pricing and the 'big boxes' put out of business as a result, please be re-opened so we can have a decent place to buy this stuff now that the 'big boxes' are cutting back on media and aren't even doing competitive pricing anymore?

I've often thought the exact same: Well, they're *really* scraping the bottom of the barrel with some of those SOV "special-edition BDs" (which are just crappy glorified VHS-level transfers). There's demand for *that*!? Lost treasures? And I like some of the most obscure stuff imaginable! But, I do draw the line at SOV or the 5th or 6th "special edition" of THE RUNNING MAN, all six of which have been based upon the same, crappy mid-'90s baked-in DNR'd transfer. Even the new UHD doesn't improve things on that title.

And, yet I see work being done by "the community" to properly restore censored films like DIsney's FANTASIA, and it makes me proud that these obsessive folks are out there and making every effort to right Disney's wrongs at the butchering of their films. So, the fringe is very much alive and well and doing great work, with various fan-edits and filling in the cracks where many studios have failed us.

With the sunsetting of physical media, I wonder how many of these fans will remain. It takes time, effort, and lots of expense to *properly* digitally transfer films from one's private collection (16mm or 35mm as it may be). Places like archive.org are providing a great way for these people to share what they've done, usually without remumeration or just a few donations by fellow diehards. Their efforts will hopefully keep "banned" films which streaming services decide to prevent us from seeing, either due to rights issues or censorship (un-PC content) extant and available. So, that's why the "fringe" fans should NEVER be marginalized or completely eliminated. For sake of preservation and legacy in preserving art in its original, unaltered form.

If places like Best Buy can't make money selling them at full price, what makes you think a dedicated store could? The market has just shrunk too much, and much of the remaining customer base has shifted to buying online.

Wishful thinking and pipe dreams.

If you don't follow the "landlord" thread in the Other forum, the idea that DVD/blu-ray/4K-UHD are moribund formats and being replaced by streaming presents an existential crisis for Alan, who is a media hoarder with an apartment piled floor-to-ceiling with videotapes, laserdiscs, CEDs, and DVDs.

I think he is having difficulty grasping the idea that people just don't want to own physical copies of movies and tv shows like they did a decade or two ago.

Definitely has zero chance in being viable on any sort of scale. Heading to Best Buy every Tuesday was a ritual for years and years, but I've gotten so spoiled by ordering online -- not having to schlep anywhere, not having to wonder if what I want is in-stock, and all that -- that I just can't really picture myself wanting to go through that on any sort of regular basis...and I'm as fixated on physical media as anyone! I feel differently about books and comics, but movies, video games, CDs...nah.

I do really love visiting Orbit DVD, which is around an hour away from me. But they're a unicorn, or at least unicorn-adjacent.

Indeed. Even such rarities as the 1980s Super Mario Bros. anime film and the 1980 anime film based on Marvel's Tomb of Dracula have received similar fan-produced remasters.

....plus there's the fact that Steamboat Willie will apparently finally enter the American public domain come January 1, 2024, God willing this means Disney and such can't extend copyright terms any further and the Public Domain will continue to flourish....

Steamboat Willie horror movie coming soon!

A dedicated store would have more LOVE for media, and also not give up on it so easily without other crap to fall back on like Best Buy has. Best Buy has never sold media at “full price” to my knowledge, even now it’s at least a few bucks off list price. I do agree that online buying killed off the idea of selling anything at list price, that’s why Suncoast failed. I never bought anything there unless it was something I had to have right away. Still is sad to see a stupid clothing store in the mall where it used to be.

LOVE does not equate to profitability or even breaking even.

Just take a look at small businesses which come and go. Plenty of LOVE does not always keep something in business.

Or is your intention to run such a dedicated video shop as a non-profit organization?

"Love"? Maybe for a small indie store, although as morriscroy pointed out, they're still going to need to make a profit to stay in business. However, chains like Virgin Records and Suncoast were corporate entities, and we're about "love," but about running a business.

Suncoast had sales, and I don't recall everything being list. However, even assuming everything was list, there was a reason for that. Best Buy used media sales as "loss leaders" to get people in the store to buy other things, so making less money, or even losing money, on the media sale was a sound strategy. Likewise, online stores don't have the overhead of paying rent for expensive retail spaces and staffing them, shipping to them, etc., so can still make money on lower prices, plus higher volume. For Suncoast, it didn't have other, higher ticket items to offset losses from low prices, and it had the high costs of retail spaces in malls and such.

Again, maybe a small indie store in a retail space that's not in a high traffic, and thus high rent, space can maybe make it work. There's still some of those types of video stores around. But Best Buy is winding down their media business because the sales that remain have largely shifted online, and opening a dedicated video store isn't going to compel most people to return to in-person shopping for them,

Even non-profits have to break even, unless they're getting donations from people to just keep existing.

That said, I know of some video rental stores that have gone that way. Scarecrow Video in Seattle, WI is now a non-profit:
https://blog.scarecrow.com/about-us-3/

There's also Four Star Video Cooperative in Madison, WI, although I don't know if it's technically a non-profit, or just employee-owned.
https://fourstarvideorental.com/

But these are filling a small niche. Maybe a handful of existing indies will get more traffic, and possibly expand to another location or something, but you're not going to see video retail stores popping up all over the place and become even a significant fraction as ubiquitous as they were before Best Buy drove them out of business.

My shop out here will be 20 years old next year and I only started going to them about a year ago:

https://www.vidtheque.com/about.aspx

The people who run Amoeba do it for the love of it. If Russ Solomon (founder of Tower) were still alive and hadn’t been screwed over by people he made deals with, he’d be preaching the virtues of physical media also. The people who run Best Buy only love money, the minute media sales dipped they just found something else to promote, and conveniently after they’d put so many media stores out of business by underpricing them.

You need to stop romanticizing business. The moment Amoeba becomes unprofitable they will be out of there, make no mistake.

I went to the new Amoeba last Fall in Hollywood. That building has to have pretty high rent. And just from my observation, the vast majority of people shopping in there were looking for Vinyls. No one was looking at CDs and movies. The prices also weren’t that attractive. I have to imagine they are just getting by if that. Hollywood rent is just going to keep going up and I can’t see Amoeba making it another 5 years.

I haven't been to the new Amoeba in Hollywood since it was on Sunset. I'd only go there to snag some vinyls. I never bought any of the movies or anything else, because since they are independent, they will charge you full MSRP prices. Fuck that. I'd only pay MSRP if it's something rare or something that may go OOP, etc.