Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk
Reload this Page >

Blu Ray Rot

HD Talk The place to discuss Blu-ray, 4K and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Blu Ray Rot

Old 06-01-22, 05:15 PM
  #26  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,755
Received 147 Likes on 127 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I had a few early Lion's Gate titles with the foil covers go bad from 2007 like Basic Instinct, First Blood, American Psycho, Reservoir Dogs etc. I bought the later Maple versions (at least here in Canada) and they seem to be fine.
IIRC the Maple Pictures blurays released specifically for the canadian market, were manufactured at Sony DADC's Terre Haute Indiana pressing plant (IFPI QW**). This was before Maple Pictures was gobbled up by Alliance in late 2011.

The defective Lionsgate blurays released in america which went bad, were manufactured at cmca/deluxe in the mid-late 2000s.

Before Sony DADC Terre Haute closed down their cd/dvd/bluray disc manufacturing lines in late 2017, IFPI QW** was one of the more reliable cd/dvd/bluray disc manufacturing facilities in america.
Old 06-02-22, 12:54 PM
  #27  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,755
Received 147 Likes on 127 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

The second last "nail in the coffin" for cd/dvd/bluray/4Kbluray optics discs, will likely be once Technicolor Mexico (IFPI KK**) and one or both of the european Sony (IFPI 94**) and/or BMG (IFPI 07**) large disc pressing plants are closed down.


Once those ^ three pressing plants are closed, what is left over will be Japanese plants and some smaller disc pressing plants with questionable quality control practicies (ie. China, Taiwan, etc ...). These Japan disc manufacturing plants still around are (purportedly):

IFPI 40** -> JVC Kenwood Victor (Yokosuka, Japan)


IFPI 45** -> Sony DADC (Shizuoka, Japan)

https://www.nippon.com/en/behind/l10359/


IFPI 44** -> Memory-Tech (Tsukuba, Japan)

Memory-Tech appears to be only cd/dvd, but not bluray.

https://www.discogs.com/label/63066-Memory-Tech
https://www.memory-tech.co.jp/en/en_package




IFPI HH** and IFPI QK** -> Panasonic / AVC ?

So far the only widely released discs I have found with IFPI HH** or IFPI QK** are Nintendo Wii discs.



I haven't purchased enough Japanese manufactured discs to determine how good or bad they are in terms of quality control.
Old 06-02-22, 10:18 PM
  #28  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 26,217
Received 584 Likes on 503 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Japanese have by far the best quality control of any pressing plants in the world. It's almost an obsession for them.
The following 2 users liked this post by PhantomStranger:
BuckNaked2k (01-21-23), John Pannozzi (06-03-22)
Old 06-02-22, 11:25 PM
  #29  
Moderator
 
story's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hope.
Posts: 12,565
Received 1,295 Likes on 769 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Blu! Ro! No go! Blu! Ro! No go!
Blu! Ro! No go! Blu! Ro! No go!
They're rotting in the cardboard!
They're chipping in the center!
The coating is eroding!
The Blu-ray rot!
The glue has got them peeling!
The case has got them skipping!
The coating is corroding!
The Blu-ray rot!

Blu! Ro! No go!
No Back to the Future!
Alien! Antholo-no!
Hitchcock set, you won't see, no!
The pressing plants were terrible!
In USA and Mexico!
To one they took a wrecking ball!
The Blu-ray rot!
Hope it's not from Warner!
Lion's Gate's a goner!
Criterion wore bronzer!
The Blu-ray rot!

Blu! Ro! No go!
Basic Instinct bad now!
American Psycho no!
Universal Horror is a horror show!
Die-cut is a disgrace!
Scratch the disc and deface!
Get 'em in a keepcase!
The Blu-ray rot!
Player's in "no disc" mode!
Out of print and won't load!
Check the IFPI code!
The Blu-ray rot!
Blu! Ro! No go! Blu! Ro! No go!
Blu! Ro! No go! Blu! Ro! NO GO!



youtube.com/watch?v=EF-WSml4F-w
The following users liked this post:
PhantomStranger (06-06-22)
Old 06-02-22, 11:35 PM
  #30  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,157
Received 649 Likes on 526 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
Once those ^ three pressing plants are closed, what is left over will be Japanese plants and some smaller disc pressing plants with questionable quality control practicies (ie. China, Taiwan, etc ...). These Japan disc manufacturing plants still around are (purportedly):
All of this technical information on which plants have already closed down is very disturbing, as it "proves" the nails are already on the coffin of pressed-disc releases. It seems like there are only two or three (quality) pressing plants left in the entire world. This disconcerting news sure doesn't seem to be disturbing very many, which makes it even worse for those who truly care about quality, preservation, and provenence of the films. This portends a future where films will truly be disposable rubbish, to be consumed for the moment, during the moment, only. A Belladonna of Sadness, to use the example of a very good Japanese film.
Old 06-03-22, 07:16 AM
  #31  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
ViewAskewbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Just around the corner to the light of day.
Posts: 15,727
Received 947 Likes on 593 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
A Belladonna of Sadness, to use the example of a very good Japanese film.
Never heard of it. Where can I stream it?

...
...

I KID!
I KID!!!!!!

PS: You're totally right, though. I had been thinking physical media was dead in the water when the rise of streaming started but seems 4k, at least for the moment, has kept some things afloat but there is no longer a shop in my city that sells it. I am left to Amazon.

The recent episode of South Park called The Streaming Wars was a funny commentary on this (kinda').
The following users liked this post:
John Pannozzi (06-03-22)
Old 06-05-22, 11:44 AM
  #32  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,755
Received 147 Likes on 127 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
All of this technical information on which plants have already closed down is very disturbing, as it "proves" the nails are already on the coffin of pressed-disc releases.
This is just the tip of the iceberg.

There is a long history of pressed optical disc manufacturing plants opening and closing down since the late 1970s. The hardcore folks who seem to document a lot of this information, hang out at discogs.
Old 06-05-22, 11:57 AM
  #33  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,755
Received 147 Likes on 127 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

This may sound really stupid, but I'll mention it anyways.

One semi-reliable indicator I watch to track which smaller disc manufacturing plants are reliable / unreliable, is to see which plants are used by the smaller independent record companies.

In practice, I've found that smaller independent record companies will contract out their cd/dvd/bluray disc manufacturing to less reliable plants (or lower costs). This pattern has been so consistent in various musical niches of interest to me, that I simply do not trust the dvd / bluray disc quality control of such releases. The few dvd (or bluray) releases I am willing to purchase from such indie record companies, is if I can figure out that the disc is a single-sided single-layer disc (ie. 5 gigabytes or less for dvd, or 25 gigabytes or less for bluray).

Too many bad experiences with single-sided two-layer dvd discs (ie. 4.25 to 8.5 gigabytes) released by indie record companies.

Last edited by morriscroy; 06-05-22 at 12:12 PM.
Old 06-06-22, 01:48 PM
  #34  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 26,217
Received 584 Likes on 503 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
This may sound really stupid, but I'll mention it anyways.

One semi-reliable indicator I watch to track which smaller disc manufacturing plants are reliable / unreliable, is to see which plants are used by the smaller independent record companies.

In practice, I've found that smaller independent record companies will contract out their cd/dvd/bluray disc manufacturing to less reliable plants (or lower costs). This pattern has been so consistent in various musical niches of interest to me, that I simply do not trust the dvd / bluray disc quality control of such releases. The few dvd (or bluray) releases I am willing to purchase from such indie record companies, is if I can figure out that the disc is a single-sided single-layer disc (ie. 5 gigabytes or less for dvd, or 25 gigabytes or less for bluray).

Too many bad experiences with single-sided two-layer dvd discs (ie. 4.25 to 8.5 gigabytes) released by indie record companies.
I mostly agree. Outside of a couple premium labels, indies usually were forced to go with smaller, less reliable manufacturers since the major studios monopolized the larger manufacturers.
Old 06-09-22, 09:50 AM
  #35  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,755
Received 147 Likes on 127 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Japanese have by far the best quality control of any pressing plants in the world. It's almost an obsession for them.
(On a similar notion).

I use to think this was the case for stuff manufactured in Germany. Over the years I came to the realization that this "belief" is completely erroneous.

In practice, this might still be the case for stuff manufactured in the former West Germany.

In contrast, this is not always the case for stuff manufactured in the former East Germany. The states of Brandenburg, Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, Thuringia, Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt. It variedly wildly from excellent to outright garbage. The former East German states did not go to West German standards.
Old 06-10-22, 03:40 PM
  #36  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Gizmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Formerly known as "GizmoDVD"/Southern CA
Posts: 31,513
Received 87 Likes on 76 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by orangerunner View Post
I had a few early Lion's Gate titles with the foil covers go bad from 2007 like Basic Instinct, First Blood, American Psycho, Reservoir Dogs etc. I bought the later Maple versions (at least here in Canada) and they seem to be fine.
Yep, I had the OG release of the The Descent go bad. IIRC, that one had a special audio track or something that made it special? I picked up another one from Goodwill for $1.99 and it worked fine.

I guess there is probably a master list of known issues somewhere.
Old 06-12-22, 10:38 AM
  #37  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,755
Received 147 Likes on 127 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I mostly agree. Outside of a couple premium labels, indies usually were forced to go with smaller, less reliable manufacturers since the major studios monopolized the larger manufacturers.
What would be examples of premium independent record companies, with decent disc quality control in recent times ?
Old 06-13-22, 01:14 AM
  #38  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 26,217
Received 584 Likes on 503 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by morriscroy View Post
What would be examples of premium independent record companies, with decent disc quality control in recent times ?
Before they went under, Audio Fidelity. In companies still around, Intervention Records.
Old 06-24-22, 06:14 AM
  #39  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
b2net's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,836
Received 113 Likes on 91 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Spotted this post in the DVD Rot thread that referenced a BR. For those that have this disc might be worth checking your copy.

Originally Posted by Surfinhank View Post
2 more for the recycle bin:American Gothic - The Complete Series (2005) - discs 1 and 2 are starting to rot, still playable but you have to skip through big sections of certain episodes. and a blu-ray: Operation Endgame from Anchor Bay... completely bronzed and it has a lot of those little cloudly white dots.
Old 01-19-23, 06:59 AM
  #40  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 7,506
Received 268 Likes on 176 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

So, I've found that Blu-rays that were pressed at Technicolor Camarillo, California, between about 2006-2009 with a Mould SID code of IFPI 2TB4, have an extremely high failure rate. I have yet to find a 2TB4 disc in my collection that hasn't failed. The Camarillo plant shut down in late 2008 or early 2009 probably, and I've found defective 2TB4 Blu-rays with street dates from Sept. 2006 through Jan. 2009. So I think that means that every Blu-ray that was ever pressed at that plant using the 2TB4 mould is suspect.

In my collection, I've found that it's mostly Paramount discs. I've identified the following potentially problematic discs, either from my own collection or from multiple user reports per title over several forums:

Clear and Present Danger
Cloverfield
Face/Off
Flags of Our Fathers (Disc 1 only)
The Hunt for Red October (first issue only - red cover)
Lara Croft: Tomb Raider
The Manchurian Candidate (2004)
Patriot Games
Sleepy Hollow
The Sum of All Fears
The Untouchables
Zodiac (Disc 2 only)
2007 DTS-HD Master Audio Presentation Disc
DTS Blu-ray Demonstration Disc 14

There are probably more. If you're checking your discs for defects, make sure you have a first issue disc from 2006-2009. Many of these titles have been reissued later over the years. The Mould SID code should be IFPI 2TB4. Large print runs or repressings may have been pressed on multiple moulds or at different plants. The Mould SID is etched into the inner-most ring of the disc on the label side. (If the SID code you find is "IFPI L***", you're looking at the Mastering SID (the wrong code), not the Mould SID.) "TECHNICOLOR/CA" should also be etched into the ring, on the opposite end of the circle from the Mould SID code.

I think the problems can also develop over a really long time. For example, when I first heard a few years ago that Flags of Our Fathers could be problematic, I checked my copy, and it was fine. Today, it is unplayable. When I first found in 2020 that my Face/Off disc had problems, it would still play the first 2/3 of the movie before freezing. By the time I got around to replacing it in 2022, it was no longer readable at all.

Last edited by TheBang; 01-24-23 at 01:28 AM.
The following users liked this post:
PhantomStranger (01-19-23)
Old 01-19-23, 03:20 PM
  #41  
DVD Talk Legend
 
bunkaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago West Suburbs
Posts: 16,302
Received 165 Likes on 109 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

I had to replace my Sleepy Hollow original Blu-ray last year.

Thankfully the Jack Ryan movies and Cloverfield I have since replaced on 4K UHD.
Old 01-19-23, 06:02 PM
  #42  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 7,506
Received 268 Likes on 176 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
I had to replace my Sleepy Hollow original Blu-ray last year.
It looks like Sleepy Hollow had at least a couple different pressings in the time period in question. While my personal copy was not pressed at Technicolor, I've found enough reports of defects that it seems that at least some batches were probably pressed on 2TB4, so I've added it to the list.
Old 01-19-23, 06:49 PM
  #43  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,290
Received 107 Likes on 88 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

I checked my copy of Sleepy Hollow. Mine had a different mould number IFPI KK0A I think. I probably have an affected Clear and Present Danger disc. Still have to find Zodiac as well.

Here's a disc that I had go rotten on me , and it's fairly new: Twins. It's the Shout Factory release from 2020. Started skipping in the part where the Twins visit the university and the lab. It's like around 65 mins in (sorry only a rough estimate).
Old 01-19-23, 06:57 PM
  #44  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 26,217
Received 584 Likes on 503 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

I'd contact Shout Factory, they may replace it for you.
Old 01-20-23, 04:52 AM
  #45  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 7,506
Received 268 Likes on 176 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

If you want to check your Paramount collection for defective 2TB4 discs, I've created a list of Paramount releases from 2006-early 2009. The list up above are the only ones I know are confirmed to have 2TB4 pressings, but any of these Paramount releases could potentially have been pressed on 2TB4 during that period. If you check your collection and find a 2TB4 pressing, whether rotted or not, please post here, and I'll add it to the list.

A couple things to keep in mind. In my collection I've seen pressings on other moulds in the same facility, specifically, 2TB2 and 2TB8. These discs have been fine. It appears to be the 2TB4 mould only that is creating extremely high defect rates. Also, keep in mind that different discs in multi-disc sets are usually pressed on different moulds. For example, the Zodiac release, where only Disc 2 was pressed on 2TB4, and Disc 1 was pressed on something else.

Code:
Aeon Flux (Ĉon Flux) (2005)
Arctic Tale (2007)
Babel (2006)
Beowulf (Director's Cut) (2007)
Black Rain (1989)
Black Snake Moan (2007)
Clear and Present Danger (1994)
Cloverfield (2008)
Coach Carter (2005)
Coming to America (Special Collector's Edition) (1988)
Days of Thunder (1990)
Dexter: The First Season (2006)
Drillbit Taylor (Extended Survival Edition) (2008)
The Duchess (2008)
Election (1999)
Event Horizon (1997)
Face/Off (Special Collector's Edition) (1997)
Failure to Launch (2006)
Flags of Our Fathers (2-Disc Special Edition) (2006)
Four Brothers (2005)
Freedom Writers (2007)
Friday the 13th (Uncut) (1980)
Ghost (1990)
The Godfather Collection (The Coppola Restoration | The Godfather / The Godfather: Part II / The Godfather: Part III) (1972-1990)
Hot Rod (2007)
The Hunt For Red October (1990)
Hustle & Flow (2005)
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (Two-Disc Special Edition) (2008)
Into the Wild (2007)
Iron Man (Ultimate 2-Disc Edition) (2008)
The Italian Job (2003)
Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (2001)
Last Holiday (2006)
The Love Guru (2008)
The Manchurian Candidate (2004)
Mean Girls (2004)
A Mighty Heart (2007)
Mission: Impossible (Special Collector's Edition) (1996)
Mission: Impossible II (2000)
Mission: Impossible III (2-Disc Collector's Edition) (2006)
Nacho Libre (2006)
Next (2007)
Old School (Unrated) (2003)
Patriot Games (1992)
Payback (Straight Up: The Director's Cut | Special Collector's Edition) (1999)
Primal Fear (Hard Evidence Edition) (1996)
Reds (25th Anniversary Edition) (1981)
Sahara (2005)
Shine a Light (The Rolling Stones) (2008)
Shooter (2007)
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow (2004)
Sleepy Hollow (1999)
South Park: The Complete Twelfth Season (2008)
The Spiderwick Chronicles (2008)
Strange Wilderness (2008)
The Sum of All Fears (2002)
There Will Be Blood (2007)
Tommy Boy (Holy Schnike Edition) (1995)
Top Gun (1986)
Trading Places ("Looking Good, Feeling Good" Edition) (1983)
Transformers (Two-Disc Special Edition) (2007)
The Truman Show (1998)
U2: Rattle and Hum (1988)
The Untouchables (Special Collector's Edition) (1987)
The Warriors (Ultimate Director's Cut) (1979)
We Were Soldiers (2002)
Without a Paddle: Nature's Calling (2008)
World Trade Center (2-Disc Commemorative Edition) (2006)
Zodiac (2-Disc Director's Cut) (2007)
The following 3 users liked this post by TheBang:
andicus (01-20-23), PhantomStranger (01-21-23), steebo777 (01-25-23)
Old 01-20-23, 04:07 PM
  #46  
DVD Talk Legend
 
andicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,218
Received 638 Likes on 479 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

^Thanks for that. I only had Shooter and Four Brothers, neither of which were 2TB4 pressings.

I'm pretty sure I've also got The Truman Show, but seem to have misplaced it.
Old 01-20-23, 07:37 PM
  #47  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
davidlynchfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,638
Received 72 Likes on 63 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Catch me if you can, The Dictator and Scrooged were more Paramount titles that failed on me. Work until about an hour into the show then freezes for like 20- 30 minutes and then watchable near the endings.
Old 01-20-23, 08:20 PM
  #48  
kd5
DVD Talk Legend
 
kd5's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 12,062
Received 253 Likes on 177 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

As Above, So Below (a Universal Studios Home Entertainment release) started freezing up at the 46min. mark, had to finish the movie from its accompanying DVD.
Old 01-23-23, 04:00 PM
  #49  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,533
Received 278 Likes on 216 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by TheBang View Post
The Mould SID is etched into the inner-most ring of the disc on the label side. (If the SID code you find is "IFPI L***", you've found the Mastering SID, not the Mould SID.) "TECHNICOLOR/CA" should also be etched into the ring, on the opposite end of the circle from the Mould SID code.
I checked a bunch of old Paramount titles in the list and so far, all have IFPI L*** on both the outer and inner rings. I assume that means they're ok(-ish)? Not too worried, as a bunch of them were replaced later in multi-film sets so I can unload the singles.
Old 01-23-23, 04:28 PM
  #50  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 7,506
Received 268 Likes on 176 Posts
Re: Blu Ray Rot

Originally Posted by Brian T View Post
I checked a bunch of old Paramount titles in the list and so far, all have IFPI L*** on both the outer and inner rings. I assume that means they're ok(-ish)?
No, that means you're looking at the Mastering SID code, which is the wrong code. You need to find the Mould SID code, which is on the label side, at almost the very inner-most part of the ring. It's etched into the plastic, so it can be very difficult to see unless you get the light to catch the grooves at the right angle.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.