Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > DVD Discussions > HD Talk
Reload this Page >

Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

HD Talk The place to discuss Blu-ray, 4K and all other forms and formats of HD and HDTV.

Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Old 01-30-17, 12:47 PM
  #1076  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,757
Received 254 Likes on 180 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by goblin23
Do these UHD discs with Atmos typically offer a 5.1 alternative or does the Atmos track down convert? (if that's the proper term).
Atmos on Blu-ray or UHD is encoded as a Dolby TrueHD 7.1 track with added metadata that directs some sounds to the height speakers. If you don't have Atmos equipment, the metadata is simply ignored and you'll get traditional 7.1 (which your receiver can downmix to 5.1).
Old 01-31-17, 12:37 AM
  #1077  
Dan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
Posts: 27,984
Received 1,181 Likes on 834 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

I'm sure others have already figured this out, but thought I'd mention it just in case.
I bought the UHD BD of Watchmen awhile back. Finally redeemed the Ultraviolet code. On the card, it only says "Digital HD with Ultraviolet" but my Vudu account shows that I now own a digital UHD copy.


Not sure if any other titles will redeem as digital UHD, but that's kind of a nice surprise.
Old 01-31-17, 06:23 AM
  #1078  
Banned by request
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Goodbye and Good Luck
Posts: 17,800
Received 778 Likes on 582 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

All Warner's title redeem in UHD, some Universal, very few Fox and Paramount titles, and Sony doesn't release any in UHD, unless you redeem the codes through their site. And when you do, you can only view the titles in UHD via their TV's and Sony app. Those codes will port over to other services, but as HDX.
Old 01-31-17, 07:54 AM
  #1079  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,679
Received 646 Likes on 446 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by trespoochies
All Warner's title redeem in UHD, some Universal, very few Fox and Paramount titles, and Sony doesn't release any in UHD, unless you redeem the codes through their site. And when you do, you can only view the titles in UHD via their TV's and Sony app. Those codes will port over to other services, but as HDX.
To be clear, all Warners and some Fox and Paramount titles, when redeemed on Vudu, will redeem as UHD. And I don't think the UHD will transfer to any other UV compatible service.

I don't think the UV standard supports UHD, just like it doesn't support 3D. It doesn't appear to support anything besides SD & HD (HDX is how Vudu redeems/syncs HD UV codes). The UHD redemption on Vudu is a specific partnership between that service and the studios, just like 3D redemption of some codes on that service. I feel like they should extend the standard to at least UHD, but they could also do 3D too while they're at it. Let the services that want to extend support to those formats, while letting other services still sync via the "legacy" format choices (SD or HD).
Old 01-31-17, 08:13 AM
  #1080  
Political Exile
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,360
Received 481 Likes on 317 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

this link describes what hoops you have to jump through to get UHD digital access
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Htmh4/htmlview
Old 01-31-17, 08:28 AM
  #1081  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,679
Received 646 Likes on 446 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by PerryD
this link describes what hoops you have to jump through to get UHD digital access
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Htmh4/htmlview
Ugh, this reminds me of the nightmare UV was at the beginning.
Old 01-31-17, 09:12 AM
  #1082  
Banned by request
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Goodbye and Good Luck
Posts: 17,800
Received 778 Likes on 582 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Jay G.
To be clear, all Warners and some Fox and Paramount titles, when redeemed on Vudu, will redeem as UHD. And I don't think the UHD will transfer to any other UV compatible service.

I don't think the UV standard supports UHD, just like it doesn't support 3D. It doesn't appear to support anything besides SD & HD (HDX is how Vudu redeems/syncs HD UV codes). The UHD redemption on Vudu is a specific partnership between that service and the studios, just like 3D redemption of some codes on that service. I feel like they should extend the standard to at least UHD, but they could also do 3D too while they're at it. Let the services that want to extend support to those formats, while letting other services still sync via the "legacy" format choices (SD or HD).
Good call out on the UHD transfers, but to complicate things, Flixster appears to transfer UHD to other services. Batman v Superman is like that. Redeem the UHD code in Vudu, it only does HDX, but in Flixster, it redeems in UHD and transfers to Vudu as such. However, I think that's a one off glitch.
Old 01-31-17, 09:12 AM
  #1083  
Dan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
Posts: 27,984
Received 1,181 Likes on 834 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Yeah, what a mess. Thanks for the extra info guys.
Old 01-31-17, 10:18 AM
  #1084  
Banned by request
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Goodbye and Good Luck
Posts: 17,800
Received 778 Likes on 582 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Jay G.
Ugh, this reminds me of the nightmare UV was at the beginning.
Originally Posted by Dan
Yeah, what a mess. Thanks for the extra info guys.
I still think it's a nightmare.
Old 01-31-17, 10:20 AM
  #1085  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 1,294
Received 50 Likes on 34 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

The only UHD digital streaming movies redeemed through codes I have seen are from Sony as I have their app on my Sony TV. Since the TV doesn't have Dolby Vision I can't check out the VUDU movies as they are only available as DV streams the last I heard. The quality on the Sony stream was clearly poorer that the disc itself.
Old 02-05-17, 08:15 AM
  #1086  
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 18,014
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Since I got my new setup I've been anxious to compare side by side an upscaled BR to a 4K disc. I got the chance last night after having picked up the 4K Jack Reacher 2. It didn't take much to notice a difference. I stress difference. As far as the difference being worth the money, that would be open for debate. The colors and detail were deeper and sharper. However an upscaled BR looks pretty damn perfect. If the UHD is a 10, then the BR is still a close 9 or 9.5.

With each format, the noticeable improvement gets small and smaller. Where VHS to DVD was a revolution, DVD to BR was an evolution, upscaled BR to UHD is a tweak. By the time they get to 12K, most of our eyes will be so bad any improvement will be imperceptible.

I buy so few in a year, as long as the difference in price is relatively small I would still invest in the UHD version since I get a BR along with it. The BR of JR2 was $20, the UHD was $26. For the half-dozen or so titles a year I actually might buy, no big deal. But if the separation is any more than that, I don't think I would bother.
Old 02-05-17, 09:56 AM
  #1087  
Banned by request
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Goodbye and Good Luck
Posts: 17,800
Received 778 Likes on 582 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Jack Reacher isn't probably the best test of you want to to that. That was shot on film and mastered in 2K, so the UHD is an upconvert. Negligible difference, but that's probably why you didn't see a bigger leap on PQ. The advantage of UHD is that the HDR will expand the colors. You'd even better off testing movies like Deadpool, X-Men: Apocalypse, and Kingsmen if you want to do those kinds of tests. You'll see more of a difference. This is why it's easier to be more selective on what UHD's to buy. It is for me at least. So unless a classic is remastered in 4K, or it's a newer movie shot in 4K, I'm not as hard pressed to buy UHD. It also helps there's a small catalog of UHD's available right now, but I'm guessing that will change.

The biggest difference for me in paying a little more is for the sound. I mentioned in your other thread already, but hearing Atmos and DTS:X really changes and improves a presentation. I'll pay a few more bucks to get the UHD with Atmos. And even if the standard blu has it, I'll just get the UHD set from now on.
Old 02-05-17, 10:00 AM
  #1088  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Posts: 17,135
Received 814 Likes on 569 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

^ That's the general consensus with most of the reviews I've read.

Either it was a nice noticeable but small difference, or it's very hard to tell the difference at all. I'm not sure if I ever saw a review that was blown away and said it made a huge difference - unlike the huge amount of reviews gushing over BD in comparison to DVD.

After all the money needed to invest in 4K... a 4K TV with HDR that actually takes advantage of HDR, UHD-BD player and the extra money on a UHD-BD title over BD (between $10-$30 difference in Canada)... the return on investment seems very small.
Old 02-05-17, 11:32 AM
  #1089  
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 18,014
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Coral
^ That's the general consensus with most of the reviews I've read.

Either it was a nice noticeable but small difference, or it's very hard to tell the difference at all. I'm not sure if I ever saw a review that was blown away and said it made a huge difference - unlike the huge amount of reviews gushing over BD in comparison to DVD.

After all the money needed to invest in 4K... a 4K TV with HDR that actually takes advantage of HDR, UHD-BD player and the extra money on a UHD-BD title over BD (between $10-$30 difference in Canada)... the return on investment seems very small.
For the TV, I figure they last about 10 years and we watch all the time. If it's $6 a week it's worth it. The UHD player was $279 but I had $180 on a gift card from the TV purchase. So after that $100 out of pocket. I moved the SONY BR up to the bedroom since all I ever had up there was an HD DVD player. I kept my same receiver for now.

I'm sure Poochies assessment is correct that Reacher wasn't the best test. I'm going to assume though that even the more optimal titles aren't going to see the improvement over BR that BR was to DVD. Improvement, but not "holy shit look at that" kind of improvement. There is no way I would pay $20 or $30 more for the UHD when the BR is so damn good to begin with. But anything under $10 I would. Also if and when I upgrade the receiver and speakers I want might as well have spent the few extra dollars.
Old 02-25-17, 09:36 PM
  #1090  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 3,364
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

I just got a Vizio M55-D0, upgraded my old Pioneer to a 7.1 receiver with all the necessary compliance stuff for 4K and HDR, and started looking at a variety of content.

Youtube UHD demo videos looks pretty amazing, but that's not anything I'd sit down and watch over and over. So, I decided to check some animation, a catalog title, and a couple of more recent titles. Thus far, I've watched Magnificent Seven, and samples Peanuts, John Wick, Ghostbusters 1 and 2, and The Revenant.

4K is definitely a step up, but as has been said, a really nice transfer on a Blu-ray is going to look pretty stellar on your 4K set as it is. I would not personally recommend any of my friends go out and upgrade their entire home theater chain unless they're actually in the market to do so, and even then it'd be more for the sake of future proofing.

Anyway, the beautiful imagery of The Revenant is really fantastic... HDR here really makes a difference (HDR in general is a game changer... I found it's true). Peanuts looked amazing on Blu but it looks even better... being able to make out all those minor details in clothing and hair etc. with the added clarity makes it look better than I remembered even in the theater. Ghostbusters is a pretty good representation of what catalog titles can look on the format, and I'm pleased. This film has colors and some brightness at times that I never knew about... the grain field is mostly fine but there's moments where it still looks a little heavier than I'd expect, but there's definitely an uptick in detail and clarity here, as well. John Wick is absolutely amazing in UHD, even if some people warn 'the blacks aren't black enough'... that's simply not true. Magnificent Seven was also a looker.

I'm really excited at some of the titles I see coming down the pike later this year. All of Harry Potter? Gladiator? The Mummy Trilogy? Yes please.
Old 02-25-17, 11:23 PM
  #1091  
DVD Talk Legend
 
JimRochester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Rochester, NY. USA
Posts: 18,014
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

There is nothing not to like about Blu ray upscaled on a 4k set. I have two discs I've compared so far. Hacksaw Ridge and Jack Reacher 2. There was a definite difference when compared 4K to 1K. There is no way I would have ever looked at the standard BR and thought something was lacking though. The UHD was just a touch richer, deeper and more detail. I would not upgrade one of my BR, it just wouldn't be worth it.
Old 02-26-17, 07:51 AM
  #1092  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Rafael, CA
Posts: 1,294
Received 50 Likes on 34 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

The format will improve as HDR displays with more processing power and "nit" power come out that can handle (at least almost) all the HDR metadata. Low end or mid-spec HDR TVs are not showing all the disc information, either clipping highlights or having a dimmer picture. When Dolby Vision comes later this year then that will fix the HDR mismatch issue but to what extent existing TVs will get the DV update remains to be seen. Of course current discs will never have DV, but it is good news that DV can now be updated purely as software and that it's likely players like the Xbox One will get the update.
Old 02-26-17, 04:11 PM
  #1093  
DVD Talk Reviewer & TOAT Winner
 
Alan Smithee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 10,425
Received 328 Likes on 247 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

My Oppo UHD player is set to arrive tomorrow with my 75-inch LG TV the next day, though I bought that more for the 3D than the UHD. I bought Deadpool on UHD the week it came out and will watch it for the first time, I still don't care too much about the format as long as it doesn't support 3D. I looked through the other UHD movies that are out and nothing really caught my fancy or was too expensive to take a chance on- I do also have Ghostbusters '16 and Angry Birds since buying them in UHD was the only way to also get them in 3D.
Old 02-27-17, 09:47 PM
  #1094  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
fumanstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 55,349
Received 26 Likes on 14 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

After getting a Samsung 65" KS8000 and new Onkyo 656, i'm probably waiting for the Xbox Scorpio to make the move to UHD. I'm really interested in getting more 4K content but don't really want to buy a standalone player right now. I wish the PS4 Pro actually included a UHD player, else I probably would have gotten that.
Old 03-01-17, 10:49 AM
  #1095  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,080
Received 37 Likes on 23 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

If I'm watching a 4K Blu-ray without a 4K TV on an Xbox One S, as I did when I was watching Fury Road last night, what exactly am I watching? An upscaled resolution? Am I really viewing 4K or am I not?
Old 03-01-17, 11:00 AM
  #1096  
Dan
DVD Talk Hero
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In the straps of boots
Posts: 27,984
Received 1,181 Likes on 834 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Every title is different. Some are not "real" 4K to begin with.
http://realorfake4k.com/my-product/mad-max-fury-road/

It is not real 4K in any material way due to having a final master at 2K. Studios have upscaled the 2K image to 4K and retouched the content for your 4K UHD TV. You should see some visual improvement over a standard 1080p Blu-ray. Check the information below to see if the studios have upgraded the video with HDR or added immersive Dolby Atmos or DTS:X audio tracks.
Shot in 2.8K
VFX Rendered in 2K
Digital Intermediate at 2K
That said, to answer your question, when you pop in a 4K Blu-ray, you're watching a 4K disc downscaled to 1080p. It should theoretically still look at least marginally better than a standard HD 1080p disc would look.

Since Mad Max is 2K (not "real" 4K), the improvement might be slight... but definitely not any worse.
I don't think many (if any) 1080p TVs have HDR, so that's mostly irrelevant.

In gaming, one thing that some folks have started doing is rendering the games at a higher resolution (like 4K), but then downscaling them to their monitor's native resolution (ie: 1080p or 1440p). The results are actually pretty good. The same idea applies here... sort of.
Old 03-01-17, 02:45 PM
  #1097  
Banned by request
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Goodbye and Good Luck
Posts: 17,800
Received 778 Likes on 582 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by Dan
I don't think many (if any) 1080p TVs have HDR, so that's mostly irrelevant.
Well if you own a recent 1080p Sony, that may change. In fact, per this article, it looks like TV broadcasters are going to introduce (and prefer) 1080p with HDR over 4K when ATSC 3.0 is launched. So it's possible some 1080p panels may have the tech to handle HDR, so all they would need is a firmware update.

Then of course there's upcoming 8K...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...decision-97887

Fox Exec Bullish on HDR, CBS VP Says Network "Hasn't Made Any Decision Yet"

Execs offered views on HDR during a panel Wednesday at the HPA Tech Retreat.

Hollywood has started to produce some high dynamic range (HDR) motion pictures and home entertainment. And at January's CES, all of the major set makers showed TVs with HDR capabilities and touted its potential. But what do the broadcasters think?

Speaking Wednesday at the Hollywood Professional Association (formerly Hollywood Post Alliance) Tech Retreat in Palm Springs, a panel of broadcasters expressed strong interest in HDR — meaning a wider range between the whitest whites and blackest blacks — though not all have specific plans to deliver this feature.

“When we launch ATSC 3.0 [the developing, voluntary, IP-based broadcast transmission system], you’ll see HDR,” asserted Richard Friedel, executive vp and general manager of engineering and operations at Fox Networks.

CBS is more cautious. Said CBS vp engineering and advanced technology Bob Seidel: “We are studying it extensively and doing testing, but haven’t made any decisions yet.”

For numerous speakers, the target is HDR in HD resolution, not 4K Ultra HD (four times the resolution of HD), which is also the direction of TV makers.

PBS CTO Mario Vecchi reported that “PBS sees value in HDR, before 4K. It’s more cost effective for us as distributors, and for consumers, it has bigger impact."

David Siegler, vp technical operations at Cox Media Group, agreed. “We like the efficiency of HDR over 4K. It looks just about as good and we think it’s the best bang for your buck,” he said.

That's also the reasoning at Sinclair Broadcast Group. Explained senior vp and CTO Del Parks: "Our TV stations have expensive infrastructures, and to move to Ultra HD requires a huge amount of money. But most could do 1080p [HD], 60 frames per second with HDR. For Sinclair, that's our target. We'll start looking at how do to that."

During another panel on Wednesday, it was restated that Japan has been testing a different approach and expects to begin 8K (16 times the resolution of HD) commercial broadcasting during 2018.

http://www.techradar.com/news/sony-i...s-will-benefit

Sony is bringing HDR to its 1080p TVs, and not just PS4 owners will benefit

Update: A Netflix representative has told us that if you're watching Netflix on a 1080p TV that supports HDR, the content will display in HDR. The Netflix stream will come to your TV at 1080p HDR, the rep said.

This means it's not just PS4s that get the benefit of lower-res HDR content, after all.

HDR, the new technology that makes a television’s whites brighter and blacks, has quickly become a must-have feature for new 4K TVs.

But yesterday Sony took the unusual step of bringing the technology to its entire lineup of Full HD 1080p screens, from the budget Bravia RE4 through to the mid-range WE6 and the more premium (but still just 1080p) WE75.

It’s an interesting move, as until now HDR has been mostly limited to Ultra HD 4K sets.

In fact, the only non-4K HDR content we’re aware of comes from Sony’s own PS4 console, which received HDR functionality for its games via a firmware update late last year.

PS4-only benefits?

We’ve reached out to request more details from Netflix and Amazon Prime Video about whether their streaming services are capable of supporting HDR when used at a 1080p resolution, but neither of their websites mention the functionality. [Update: Netflix has informed TechRadar it does support content streamed in HDR to 1080p TVs that support the standard.]

We've also sought clarification from Microsoft about whether the Xbox One S is able to output an HDR signal at 1080p resolutions.

If you’ve been struggling to find a Full HD set to make use of your PS4’s HDR functionality, then the new Sony models might be the ones to go with.

But if you’re not a PS4 owner, or if you're a PS4 owner that mainly uses the console for media viewing rather than gaming, then you’ll have a hard time finding any HDR content to watch at 1080p and it’s much tougher to justify paying a premium for the feature.
Old 03-05-17, 08:42 PM
  #1098  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: NY
Posts: 3,364
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Sony has been making it a habit of taking one step forward, and then two steps back. They released the PS4 Pro with the promise of 4K and leave out UHD. Xbox One S comes at a price point for $100 less and has a UHD player. Go figure.

And yet, their new $300 UHD player is probably going to be one of the new favs on the market. I just got one and it's pretty great.
Old 03-06-17, 02:03 PM
  #1099  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PhantomStranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Phantom Zone
Posts: 27,376
Received 783 Likes on 657 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by mzupeman2
Sony has been making it a habit of taking one step forward, and then two steps back. They released the PS4 Pro with the promise of 4K and leave out UHD. Xbox One S comes at a price point for $100 less and has a UHD player. Go figure.

And yet, their new $300 UHD player is probably going to be one of the new favs on the market. I just got one and it's pretty great.
I think Sony did that as a nod to their hardware division. The only people that care about UHD are largely over 30, which isn't the target videogame demo.
Old 03-06-17, 02:37 PM
  #1100  
DVD Talk Reviewer/ Admin
Thread Starter
 
Adam Tyner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Greenville, South Cackalack
Posts: 28,741
Received 1,856 Likes on 1,227 Posts
Re: Let's talk about Ultra HD Blu-ray

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
I think Sony did that as a nod to their hardware division. The only people that care about UHD are largely over 30, which isn't the target videogame demo.
Believe it or not, the Entertainment Software Association's most recent survey pegs the average age of a "frequent game purchaser" as 38. Average age of a male gamer is 35.

I think Sony just couldn't make the numbers work. UHD BD support would require either raising the price or losing their margins, and they decided it wasn't worth it.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.