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Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
There is a thread on bluray.com where people have discovered that a lot of CC discs released around 2010 have begun bronzing and failing. Some of the effected titles include Pierrot le Fou, Stagecoach, Walkabout, and M. It might be a good idea to start checking your discs.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Oh Brother!
I own a bunch of those early releases, with Days Of Heaven and Walkabout being two of my "top 10" favorites. Would hate to lose either of those. I think I watched Walkabout for a second time about a year back and didn't have any problems, but I'll be giving them a visual inspection over the next couple days. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Yeah, I've got a bunch of the early Blu-ray releases. I'll be taking a quick look at them all in the next week or so.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I do have Pierrot le Fou, but there's not much I can do if the disc is going bad anyway since it is out of print if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by flansered
(Post 12252653)
There is a thread on bluray.com where people have discovered that a lot of CC discs released around 2010 have begun bronzing and failing. Some of the effected titles include Pierrot le Fou, Stagecoach, Walkabout, and M. It might be a good idea to start checking your discs.
I noticed them a while back I thought it was just me getting a fucked up disc and never noticing it till months later. I still have them around for some reason. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by flansered
(Post 12252653)
There is a thread on bluray.com where people have discovered that a lot of CC discs released around 2010 have begun bronzing and failing.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I have a sickening feeling in my stomach from the news about failed Criterion pressings. Many of those BDs are out of print and Criterion would be barred from making replacements unless the license holders allowed it.
The quality control on Blu-ray pressings has generally been inferior considering the costs to manufacture a single one. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Is there a list of all of the Criterion Blu Rays that were released in 2010?
EDIT: nevermind. The only one I would have to worry about is Seven Samurai. I hope the blu-ray.com posters are exaggerating as usual. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I looked at about a dozen of the discs. I don't see any browning or signs of a problem. I will have to check them out on a player when I have a chance.
The latest clue seems to indicate Don't Look Now is entering the collection. Also, I don't know if anyone has seen this, but Shout has acquired the Westchester library. This could lead to some titles going OOP. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by Neil M.
(Post 12252772)
I looked at about a dozen of the discs. I don't see any browning or signs of a problem. I will have to check them out on a player when I have a chance.
The latest clue seems to indicate Don't Look Now is entering the collection. Also, I don't know if anyone has seen this, but Shout has acquired the Westchester library. This could lead to some titles going OOP. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by Solid Snake
(Post 12252790)
Want to start name dropping some for us, mate?
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
These were indicated by forum member Partyslammer on bluray.com.
Only the bolded (*) titles have been found with the issue, so far. *Stagecoach (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010 By Brakhage: An Anthology, Volumes One and Two (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 25, 2010 *Walkabout (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 18, 2010 *M (The Criterion Collection) Criterion May 11, 2010 *Ride with the Devil (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 27, 2010 Vivre Sa Vie (My Life to Live / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010 *Summer Hours (L'heure d'été / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Apr 20, 2010 *Days of Heaven (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Yojimbo (Yôjinbô / 用心棒 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Sanjuro (Tsubaki Sanjûrô / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Yojimbo / Sanjuro (用心棒 / 椿三十郎 | The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Bigger Than Life (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Mar 23, 2010 Lola Montès (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010 Hunger (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010 Revanche (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Feb 16, 2010 *Paris, Texas (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 26, 2010 Che (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 19, 2010 8½ (Federico Fellini's 8½ / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Jan 12, 2010 A Christmas Tale (Un conte de Noël / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009 Gimme Shelter (The Rolling Stones / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Dec 01, 2009 Gomorrah (The Criterion Collection / Gomorra) Criterion Nov 24, 2009 *Howards End (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009 Wings of Desire (Der Himmel über Berlin / The Criterion Collection) Criterion Nov 03, 2009 *Monsoon Wedding (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Oct 20, 2009 The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 *Pierrot le fou (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 Monterey Pop (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 Jimi Plays Monterey & Shake! Otis at Monterey (The Criterion Collection) Criterion Sep 22, 2009 |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by andicus
(Post 12252877)
These were indicated by forum member Partyslammer on bluray.com.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by slop101
(Post 12252753)
I'm not too worried about those chowderheads - I'd be more concerned if it were people at the Criterion forums discovering this.
That said, I've checked a couple of my discs from the list (M, Days of Heaven, Walkabout) and I don't seem to have any bad ones. edit: Here's the link to the relevant thread at Criterion forum: http://http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13376 |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I did a visual inspection of my discs and didn't see anything, and that includes the original faulty Walkabout disc and the replacement that CC sent me. Some of the posters on the other forums have mentioned that the only way to know for sure is to watch or fast forward through the movie to see if it plays accurately. The only ones that I have that I know are fine are my copies of Che and the Yojimbo/Sanjuro set, since I watched those recently for the Criterion Challenge.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by rocket1312
(Post 12253775)
According to what I've read, Shout acquired Westchester in an effort to support their expansion into streaming/television distribution. That may mean that the contracts Criterion (and others) have in place for physical media will not be affected by this deal. However, that's just speculation on my part. I really don't know either way. While it would be fun if Shout put out some of these titles on BD, it would be a shame if Criterion started losing the rights to some of these films.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I definitely have a screwed up/defective copy of Summer Hours as I checked it yesterday. It pixleates at around the 51 minute mark and skips forward after that.
I watched some of Days of Heaven and didn't see any problems (reportedly at the 47 minute mark) on that one. But I will watch the whole movie just to be sure. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by sleepyhead55
(Post 12253898)
I definitely have a screwed up/defective copy of Summer Hours as I checked it yesterday. It pixleates at around the 51 minute mark and skips forward after that.
I watched some of Days of Heaven and didn't see any problems (reportedly at the 47 minute mark) on that one. But I will watch the whole movie just to be sure. I checked a few of mine, and they all looked fine, but I guess they can still be defective if they're not bronzing. And/or, they can also play fine for a while if they are bronzing, but it could lead to issues down the line. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Criterion has already confirmed they can't legally replace the defective Blu-rays they've lost the rights to.
The problems are most likely to show up around the layer change during the movie, usually the around the middle of the main feature. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
(Post 12254216)
Criterion has already confirmed they can't legally replace the defective Blu-rays they've lost the rights to.
Also, for those not following the thread over at blu-ray.com, a member there has gotten in touch with someone at Criterion who was pretty forthright with information regarding the situation at hand. The short version is that they are aware of the problem and are looking into it, but they probably won't be able to address it until they finish dealing with Eraserhead. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by slop101
(Post 12254205)
Are any of your defective discs "bronzing"?
I checked a few of mine, and they all looked fine, but I guess they can still be defective if they're not bronzing. And/or, they can also play fine for a while if they are bronzing, but it could lead to issues down the line. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
what exactly does "bronzing" mean?
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by Chadm
(Post 12254376)
what exactly does "bronzing" mean?
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by Paul_SD
(Post 12254419)
a lot of the titles on that list I haven't even cracked the shrinkwrap on yet.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
My Walkabout blu-ray is toast.
Opened it up, and sure enough, the playing surface of the disc was bronzed. It was darkest around the outer edge of the disc, and discolored about halfway to the center. I put the disc in my player and it started up fine. I played the disc and used the chapter skip to play through it. It was fine through chapter nine, but it froze up when I attempted to go to chapter ten. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
^I just checked mine and the disc looks the same. I was able skip through the chapters without it freezing, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.
I just saw this on the blu-ray forum... http://i.imgur.com/cFSqguo.png |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man
(Post 12254467)
My Walkabout blu-ray is toast.
Opened it up, and sure enough, the playing surface of the disc was bronzed. It was darkest around the outer edge of the disc, and discolored about halfway to the center. I put the disc in my player and it started up fine. I played the disc and used the chapter skip to play through it. It was fine through chapter nine, but it froze up when I attempted to go to chapter ten.
Originally Posted by dino88
(Post 12254502)
^I just checked mine and the disc looks the same. I was able skip through the chapters without it freezing, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.
I just saw this on the blu-ray forum... http://i.imgur.com/cFSqguo.png Ditto on Walkabout for me. I have most of the affected titles (all, but Summer Hours) and Walkabout is the only that is bronzed, but I have yet to play any of them. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I just did a visual inspection of all the discs I own from the list in post 7118. Of them, the following discs have visible discoloration or cloudiness around the outer edge:
Bigger Than Life Days of Heaven M Summer Hours Vivre Sa Vie Yojimbo and Sanjuro Additionally, a tiny bit of the plastic coating seems to be peeling off A Christmas Tale. Summer Hours has the most amount of so-called "bronzing." I put that into my OPPO BDP-93 and skipped through the chapters. Sure enough, it froze when it got to Chapter 9, which is just past the 50 minute mark. I find this very disconcerting. Just chapter skipping through each of them past the 50 minute mark, Bigger Than Life, Days of Heaven, M, Sanjuro and Yojimbo seem to play OK. Remarkably, so does A Christmas Tale. I also have a number of other Criterion Blu-rays from this period that don't show physical signs of anything being wrong. I tested Walkabout and Stagecoach, which both got passed the layer change. I don't have time tonight to test all the rest. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
It's very possible all of the discs made by Sonopress are ticking time bombs, at least the ones with visible discoloration and bronzing. It may be a matter of when, not if.
Josh, your signature has misspelled Writer unless it's an attempt to be witty. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
For those who have M, if your disc has the code starting with BVDL then that is a Criterion manufactured by Sony and probably not defective. I'm going to have to check on a bunch more discs since I have a few more that just popped up on the list.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Did this plant that pressed the bad Criterion discs make other blu-ray discs that we may have that may go bad?
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I played through my Criterion copy of Darjeeling Limited, and it seems to be fine. There's also no bronzing on the disc, either.
I checked this one because, even though it's not on the list, I bought it at the same time I as my faulty Walkabout. (I got both from Ultimate Electronics during their liquidation back in 2011.) |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by sleepyhead55
(Post 12254749)
For those who have M, if your disc has the code starting with BVDL then that is a Criterion manufactured by Sony and probably not defective.
I don't think I had started upgrading to blu-ray until after the affected time period and just wonder if there's a way to see if any that I have from the list may be later pressings rather than from that plant. All that I have seem fine now, but I want to feel more secure about the future of these discs. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger
(Post 12254703)
Josh, your signature has misspelled Writer unless it's an attempt to be witty.
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Originally Posted by flansered
(Post 12252653)
There is a thread on bluray.com where people have discovered that a lot of CC discs released around 2010 have begun bronzing and failing. Some of the effected titles include Pierrot le Fou, Stagecoach, Walkabout, and M. It might be a good idea to start checking your discs.
That said, the possible TTM news is hugely exciting. I almost spent $100+ on eBay, but held off. Is it too much to hope? I wonder when if so. PS Your avatar is going to give me nightmares. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by hanshotfirst1138
(Post 12254907)
Great. Just great. I don't suppose there'll be a replacement program or something? Thought not. I'm hoping that the next batch won't be, but how will we tell the difference between them? Damn. I spent quite a bit on Stagecoach and haven't taken it out of the shrinkwrap yet. I'll have to look and see what other titles are listed. Is this the whole series of pressings? Did they switch to a different manufacturer or something? That's very disconcerting :(. I suppose even they have to mess up sometime, but damn :(.
http://i59.tinypic.com/2rfprvs.jpg I just want to reach through my computer and give him a pat on the back and tell him it will all be ok. :) Seriously though, while know one seems to know the full extent of the problems, it seems to be limited to early pressings of a select number of 2009/2010 titles. Most likely this was due to a specific run of discs at one of the manufacturing plants Criterion uses. While no one can say for sure that this problem won't present itself in other titles down the road, I'd be surprised if that were the case. As it stands, I own at least 4 of the discs in question and have had no issues with any of them. There is no replacement program in place at this moment, but Criterion is aware of the issue and will be addressing it after they get the Eraserhead situation dealt with. Here are some bullet points a blu-ray.com member relayed after talking with someone at Criterion: Spoiler:
The bottom line is that this is a potentially huge problem, but I have 100% faith that Criterion will deal with it as they have any other time there's been a problem with one of their discs. It's just going to take time. |
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
You think this sucks for you owning some of those bad discs, think how Criterion feels about this? They had good faith in that pressing plant and now they have to deal with this. I hope they can get money from that plant for their screw up.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by rocket1312
(Post 12254986)
Seriously though, while know one seems to know the full extent of the problems, it seems to be limited to early pressings of a select number of 2009/2010 titles.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
I cracked open my copy of Summer Hours. I'm pretty sure there's some browning/bronzing right around the outer edge, but not as bad as the pics I've seen of others. I think I'm going to watch that one ASAP just to be sure.
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Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
Originally Posted by Josh Z
(Post 12255016)
Does the problem go back to 2009 as well now?
Also, apparently Criterion has started getting back to people who have e-mailed them about this. Here's their stock response: I hope this email finds you well. Thank you for writing in regarding a discoloration and playability problem with one or more of your Criterion discs. We are aware of this issue, which appears to affect a number of titles pressed four or five years ago at a pressing plant that we no longer use, and we are currently working on a solution. Please be assured that we are dedicated to your satisfaction and will be replacing defective discs. As soon as we have a system in place to handle exchanges efficiently, we will send out a link with instructions on how to receive replacement discs. Thank you for your patience and understanding while we work through this issue. All the best and thanks for supporting Criterion! Jon Mulvaney |
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