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DVD Talk Forum (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/)
-   HD Talk (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk-55/)
-   -   Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing' (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/622725-criterion-disc-rot-bronzing.html)

milo bloom 10-02-14 12:03 PM
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
 
I still have a sizable number of Criterions on DVD, has anyone noticed an issue with those?

sleepyhead55 10-02-14 12:30 PM
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
 
Originally Posted by wahlers (Post 12254827)
Is that code a consistent amongst other Criterion discs? Or is there a consistent start to the code on the discs from that plant?

I don't think I had started upgrading to blu-ray until after the affected time period and just wonder if there's a way to see if any that I have from the list may be later pressings rather than from that plant.

All that I have seem fine now, but I want to feel more secure about the future of these discs.
Yeah, that is a consistent code amongst most of the discs. Hard to say about when it started but I did find it on my BD of The Third Man. If your disc has the letters BVDL on the back it means it was a later pressing (by Sony) and not affected. Only the first pressings were the one with issues, I think.

I found another defective disc last night Che Part 1. Around chapter 16 or 17 it started to skip forward and when I FF later it the disc just froze.

hanshotfirst1138 10-02-14 12:58 PM
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
 
Originally Posted by rocket1312 (Post 12254986)
Whenever hanshotfirst posts one of his frequent laments, whether it's about Kodak, Star Wars OT, or whatever, this is always the image that comes to mind:

http://i59.tinypic.com/2rfprvs.jpg

I just want to reach through my computer and give him a pat on the back and tell him it will all be ok. :)

Seriously though, while know one seems to know the full extent of the problems, it seems to be limited to early pressings of a select number of 2009/2010 titles. Most likely this was due to a specific run of discs at one of the manufacturing plants Criterion uses. While no one can say for sure that this problem won't present itself in other titles down the road, I'd be surprised if that were the case. As it stands, I own at least 4 of the discs in question and have had no issues with any of them. There is no replacement program in place at this moment, but Criterion is aware of the issue and will be addressing it after they get the Eraserhead situation dealt with. Here are some bullet points a blu-ray.com member relayed after talking with someone at Criterion:

Spoiler:
-They are aware of the issue, but they only have confirmations on two titles - Summer Hours and Walkabout.

-I informed them of my situation (listed in OP), and read off to them the five titles with bronzing that no longer work, the one that freezes (Gomorrah), and the one with bronzing but still works as of right now (Days of Heaven).

-She was very appreciative of the information. I also read her off all other titles that have been reported as having issues.

-She jotted everything down to make note of it all to bring it to the attention of the guys in charge.

-She told me that they have over 1,000 emails in their inbox that they haven't even had time to look at or respond to yet. They are being hammered, and with only around 25 people working for the company and fewer than that which are able to deal with emails and things, it's just taking longer than it normally would.

-They are aware of the threads on various forums concerning these issues.

-Right now they are dealing with the Eraserhead situation. They are getting a lot of those discs in every single day, emails as well on that one, and they are trying to take care of that problem before tackling this bronzing issue.

-They are however already actively doing research into this problem and will then come up with a way for them to deal with it.

-She assured me that everyone with defective discs will receive replacements. It may take time, but they will take care of every single customer.

-The only exception to this is, unfortunately, for people with OOP discs. They have absolutely no stock of any of the OOP titles anymore, and they have no options to print additional copies for replacements. They will offer some sort of solution for those people though, which may be another Criterion title of your choice to replace it.

-She told me to remove all of my damaged discs and to put a sticky note on each and every one of them giving exact details of the problems that they are having. I am then to take the discs, and only the discs, and mail them to the address that she gave me.

-They do NOT want people to just randomly start mailing discs to them.

-They are going to deal with this on a case by case basis. Once you hear from them, have it be on the phone or in email, they will then instruct you exactly what to do as they did for me just now.

-They are aware that they have had issues with some of these titles in the past such as M and Walkabout. However, if you have bronzing and that sort of thing, this is a completely different and separate problem and they recognize it as such.

-I'm going to add one more thing to my list, which explains why they have yet to make a public statement on this issue...

-She told me that they are hesitant to publicly say anything yet, other than on a case by case basis, because they have yet to complete their research into the problem. They do not know the exact case of the issues as of this time, but they are currently looking into it. Unless, or until, they can narrow things down to where they can say exactly what the issue is, they will be dealing with this on a case by case basis as they have almost always done in the past. Long story short - if you have a defective disc, it will get replaced, and if they do discover the exact problem, they will release a public explanation at that time.

-They will be responding to each and every email soon. They have simply been slammed and that, mixed with Eraserhead, they are behind way more than ever before. Be patient, and they will take care of all of us.


The bottom line is that this is a potentially huge problem, but I have 100% faith that Criterion will deal with it as they have any other time there's been a problem with one of their discs. It's just going to take time.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4599024896/h034F44C5/

PhantomStranger 10-02-14 01:50 PM
Re: Criterion releases on Blu-Rays, Part II
 
Look around the layer change for when a disc will fail. That will usually occur near the end of the first hour of the main feature. Like a lot of Blu-ray companies, Criterion probably uses whatever replicator has excess capacity at the moment of their need. Most of the reported failures have been traced to Sonopress.

This should not affect their DVDs. This is a uniquely Blu-ray problem in this instance.

asianxcore 10-02-14 02:41 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
From the list posted on BD.com, I only own Wings of Desire & The Seventh Seal. Checked both discs (visually) and they look the same as more recently pressed discs (Harold & Maude).

I'll probably skip through chapters before I head out to class.

Maxflier 10-02-14 02:51 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I checked some of the discs in question that I own last night and honestly couldn't tell since all the Criterion discs I looked at seemed to have a gold or bronze looking finish on the disc.

asianxcore 10-02-14 03:18 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
If skipping through Chapters is any indication if your disc has gone kaput, both of my discs (The Seventh Seal & Wings of Desire) are fine. I was able to skip through all Chapters without any hiccups.

gryffinmaster 10-02-14 04:03 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
The rest of the affected discs seem fine in my collection, but you can chalk another up in the bronzed Walkabout column:

http://i.imgur.com/iSaF57y.jpg

Why So Blu? 10-02-14 05:19 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I've got all the discs mentioned that have been bronzing for people. I will now check to see if mine are fucked.


BRB

GoldenJCJ 10-02-14 05:26 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
The only one on that list that I own is Stagecoach. No bronzing!

hdnmickey 10-02-14 05:43 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I have the two pack of Yojimbo and Sanjuro, unopened. Did the two pack come long after the individual releases?

Dan 10-02-14 05:48 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Nope. Same time as the individual releases.

Why So Blu? 10-02-14 05:57 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Ok, so I have two victims of bronzing:

Summer Hours
Walkabout

I thought I owned Stagecoach but I guess I don't since it's not in my collection.


I'm now going to check the other ones that were not in bold.

BRB

Why So Blu? 10-02-14 06:22 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I own all of the titles that were not in bold and none of those had bronzing, so we're good on that front for now.

PhantomStranger 10-02-14 06:33 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Does anyone have a working Walkabout at this point? I'd say the chances an original pressing still plays are very slim.

slop101 10-02-14 08:13 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 12255758)
Does anyone have a working Walkabout at this point? I'd say the chances an original pressing still plays are very slim.
I haven't checked to see if it plays, but I have 15 out of the blu-rays listed in post #12 in this thread, and Walkabout is the only one of those that's "bronzing".

hdnmickey 10-02-14 08:30 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Popped open my Yojimbo and Sanjuro copies and they both look clean and perfect.

clckworang 10-02-14 08:47 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I'm pretty sure I have all of the titles listed in andicus' post. I have not looked at all of them, but I have at least visually inspected the ones in bold. Of those, the only two that definitely looked to have something going on with the disc surface were Walkabout and Summer Hours. I haven't attempted to play any of them. I guess that will be the real test.

Matt925 10-02-14 11:59 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
My days of heaven looks normal, but I didn't buy it until maybe two years after it was released. Maybe it's just the early pressings that have this problem?

BuckNaked2k 10-03-14 12:39 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by Matt925 (Post 12256122)
My days of heaven looks normal, but I didn't buy it until maybe two years after it was released. Maybe it's just the early pressings that have this problem?
Exactly.

Paul_SD 10-03-14 03:45 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 12255758)
Does anyone have a working Walkabout at this point? I'd say the chances an original pressing still plays are very slim.
Mine is still working. I went to the 45 minute mark, watched about 7 minutes and then chapter skipped thru to the end. No locks or freezes.

The light in my HT isn't the greatest. There didn't seem to be any overt bronzing, but there may be a fine ringing forming along the very edge circumference. Hard to really see one way or the other.
I also visually checked
Seventh Seal (had to finally crack the shrinkwrap on it)
Vivre Sa Vie
Days Of Heaven
Revanche
Repulsion

Like Walkabout, nothing overt yet. I don't know that this makes much of a difference, but because of the humidity in the basement, and also because I sell much of my collection off frequently, I've been bagging my discs for several years now (putting the disc cases in comic book bags when I store them).

Jaymole 10-03-14 07:21 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I'm afraid to check my Criterions, especially the ones that are OOP.

I guess I will have to do so this weekend :(

Frozen 10-03-14 08:21 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Disregard my post. I have a paltry BD collection.

Josh Z 10-03-14 09:46 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by Frozen (Post 12256277)
I noticed the type of light bulb you have has an impact on what the surface of the Blu-ray looks like. I was checking my Criterions near a regular incandescent 60 watt bulb. The Criterions looked a tad darker than the BD I was comparing them to so I took them to the bathroom. I have 2 of the curly compact fluorescent bulbs in there, 12 watts each. The surface of the Criterions immediately looked different. All the Criterions, regardless of the year they were printed, had wavy, irregularly shaped concentric rings radiating out from the center hub. Tilting the disc just a little makes the rings look pretty trippy. I checked them again near a long fluorescent bulb and the rings didn't jump out so much. The same wavy effect was present on Blu-rays from Sony, Twilight Time and Criterion. I also checked BDs from Warner, MGM, Olive, Kino, Starz, Arrow, Eureka, Universal, the US, the UK and France and the surface of those discs looked normal (not wavy) regardless of what kind of light bulb was used. Maybe the wavy discs were manufactured by the same plant. I just thought it was an odd thing that was worth mentioning.
Fluorescent bulbs put out different types of light waves than incandescent. That waviness you see is just the way the disc surface reflects that type of light. It's not actually part of the disc, and has nothing to do with this rotting problem.

Josh Z 10-03-14 09:47 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by hdnmickey (Post 12255702)
I have the two pack of Yojimbo and Sanjuro, unopened. Did the two pack come long after the individual releases?
They came out at the same time. I have the two-pack, and both discs show bronzing but seem to play OK so far.

Josh Z 10-03-14 09:49 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 12255758)
Does anyone have a working Walkabout at this point? I'd say the chances an original pressing still plays are very slim.
My copy of Walkabout does not appear bronzed, and it played OK when I chapter skipped through it. I don't recall when I bought the disc. It might have been a year or more after release, so it could be from a different pressing run.

Ralph Jenkins 10-03-14 10:42 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by Josh Z (Post 12256373)
My copy of Walkabout does not appear bronzed, and it played OK when I chapter skipped through it. I don't recall when I bought the disc. It might have been a year or more after release, so it could be from a different pressing run.
I checked my copy of Walkabout -- purchased the week it was released -- and it looked fine. No bronzing. I've also never experienced the skipping issue others have reported with this title. I think I did keep it in a plastic manga bag for a while, which may have helped to prolong its life. I think I'm going to make a backup while I still can just to be safe.

Frozen 10-03-14 12:21 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I counted my Blu-rays. I just have 47 so I'm going to keep my mouth hole shut.

Josh Z 10-03-14 12:59 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by Frozen (Post 12256567)
I didn't say it has anything to do with rotting. The refraction of light waves DOES have something to do with the way the BDs are manufactured. As I said, it's only visible on all my Blu-rays from Criterion, Sony and Twilight Time. All other BDs are trippy rippling wave-free. It would be pretty funny if that was a simple indicator of when material is prone to failure. As the material breaks down it would change how light is refracted.
Possible some of those discs are single-layer and some are dual-layer? Maybe different studios use a different scratch coating? There are a lot of possibilities why different discs might reflect the light differently.

I've seen this wavy rippling effect on CDs, DVDs and Laserdiscs held under fluorescent light. It's not something unique to Criterion, Sony or Twilight Time.

PhantomStranger 10-03-14 04:43 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Criterion has now acknowledged the problem on at least seven different titles and plans to offer some kind of exchange program for defective Blu-rays. I suspect this is a fluid situation with the final words yet to be written.

JoeySeven 10-03-14 05:47 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Posted to Criterion's blog.

http://www.criterion.com/current/pos...efective-discs

We have confirmed that certain Blu-ray discs pressed at a replication facility that we used for a period in 2010 have become defective, showing a noticeable bronze discoloration on the underside and developing playback problems. We have confirmed the problem on seven titles, though not on all copies of those titles. All of these titles have since been re-pressed at a different pressing plant, and the vast majority of discs in circulation should not be affected.

The potentially affected Blu-ray titles are:

Howards End
M
Paris, Texas
Pierrot le fou
The Seventh Seal
Summer Hours
Walkabout

If you have found that your Blu-ray copy of one of these titles does not play, please send your disc to the following address for a replacement:

Please include only your disc—no packaging—along with the address to which you’d like us to mail your replacement. We will not be replacing or exchanging packaging. There is no need to email us in addition.

If we learn that other titles are similarly defective, we will add them to this list and continue to replace them as well.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.
According to the alphanumeric codes on the discs, it appears that most of the bad discs were manufactured by Sonopress (aka Arvato Digital Services).
IFPI 10xx Weaverville, USA

Look for codes starting with L0 or LB0 .

M-LB42
Summer Hours -LB42
Walkabout-LB42
Paris, Texas
Pierrot le fou
The Seventh Seal
Howards End

Would not be surprised if they added more tittles to list.As they have about
10 more CC listed on blu-ray.cum that are either bronzing or peeling.

I own 6 of the 7 listed so far with problems.

M-okay,have 2ND printing(BVDL
Walkabout-watch once A few years ago with no problems.Now it has gone brown and will not play.
Paris, Texas(OKAY,watched once,L1DO22)
Pierrot le fou(OKAY,was sealed,L1DO22)
The Seventh Seal(OKAY,watched more then once,DO22)

Howards End(L0D25)
Not sure about this one,was sealed.disc looks fine.But the code starts with L0.

Also have A extra copies of Pierrot le fou and The Seventh Seal that need to
be open and check.Was planning on trading them or selling them sooner or latter.

PhantomStranger 10-03-14 07:16 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I imagine the final list of defective titles will expand.

Giles 10-03-14 07:32 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
I don't understand the codes:

there are two on the Howard's End disc: L1 DO26 and L0 D 25

the number I only see on Walkabout is 402 nothing else.

Pierrot: L1DO22

Seventh Seal: L1 DO 22

I don't even see a number on my Summer Hours disc - I'm looking at it with a magnifying glass - however the inner ring does have a bronzed look.

??

Bob_Bobbson 10-03-14 07:48 PM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Well, upon first glance, all of the titles I own on that list look fine.
Of course, that's just looking at the discs. I'll have to put them in and see how they play to know for sure.
No visible bronzing though, which makes me hopeful.

JoeySeven 10-04-14 01:49 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by Giles (Post 12257123)
I don't understand the codes:

there are two on the Howard's End disc: L1 DO26 and L0 D 25

the number I only see on Walkabout is 402 nothing else.

Pierrot: L1DO22

Seventh Seal: L1 DO 22

I don't even see a number on my Summer Hours disc - I'm looking at it with a magnifying glass - however the inner ring does have a bronzed look.

??
The numbers and letters on most of these disc are very hard to see.I'm not even sure if the codes I posted are 100% right.
My bad Walkabout disc is the worse to try to read.I'm not even going yo
try to read anymore any time soon.Unless I find another bad disc or someone on the forums needs to compare codes for brown disc.

Why So Blu? 10-04-14 02:08 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Looks like I'll be sending out Summer Hours and Walkabout. I'll be doing some more recon on the titles affected by actually playing them.

Maxflier 10-04-14 02:41 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
So they can replace Pierrot Le Fou even though it has been out of print fir a while now?

morriscroy 10-04-14 08:57 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Hopefully this does not become a wide fiasco, and further convincing people to not buy bluray (or optical discs in general).

Solid Snake 10-04-14 09:39 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
sooooooo....

what type of packaging do we mail the discs in?

Why So Blu? 10-04-14 09:49 AM
Re: Criterion - disc rot/'bronzing'
 
Originally Posted by Solid Snake (Post 12257614)
sooooooo....

what type of packaging do we mail the discs in?
DVD padded envelope. I'll be doing mine that way.


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