Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V receivers
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Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V receivers
Questions;
I have had zero experience with Blu-ray. I want to replace my older Oppo 970 with a new player so I figured Blu-ray would make the most sense. Considering the drop in cost. I have just discovered that some/many BD discs have Java embedded within the disc for what I consider unnecessary gimmicks. Doing so apparently prevents the traditional resume function to work on some/many players.
Why?
I have also discovered, apparently one needs to run out a buy a brand new A/V receiver with HDMI inputs for the full Dolby Digital or DTS audio to work. Using the conventional optical or coaxial out from a BD player to a non HDMI receiver only nets you with two channel stereo.
Is this correct?
Why isn't the 5.1 available through those conventional outs as it is on a SD DVD player??
I have had zero experience with Blu-ray. I want to replace my older Oppo 970 with a new player so I figured Blu-ray would make the most sense. Considering the drop in cost. I have just discovered that some/many BD discs have Java embedded within the disc for what I consider unnecessary gimmicks. Doing so apparently prevents the traditional resume function to work on some/many players.
Why?
I have also discovered, apparently one needs to run out a buy a brand new A/V receiver with HDMI inputs for the full Dolby Digital or DTS audio to work. Using the conventional optical or coaxial out from a BD player to a non HDMI receiver only nets you with two channel stereo.
Is this correct?
Why isn't the 5.1 available through those conventional outs as it is on a SD DVD player??
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
The next question;
Will burning a backup copy of a BD movie solve any of this other than getting rid of the extra crap (DVD style)?
Will burning a backup copy of a BD movie solve any of this other than getting rid of the extra crap (DVD style)?
#3
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
It does suck to not have the resume feature but I just take a quick look at where I'm at in the film before I turn it off. Yes, it is a bit of a drawback to not have resume but in my opinion it is not worth going out of your way by burning extra copies or what not for that minor inconvenience.
As far as the audio goes you should get 5.1 sound just not uncompressed audio by going through any route other than HDMI and using a receiver that accepts HDMI. If you have a PS3 and a receiver with passthrough then the PS3 will do the decoding before sending it to the receiver. If you have a player that doesn't decode but sends it to the receiver to be decoded then you will need a receiver that can do just that.
As far as the audio goes you should get 5.1 sound just not uncompressed audio by going through any route other than HDMI and using a receiver that accepts HDMI. If you have a PS3 and a receiver with passthrough then the PS3 will do the decoding before sending it to the receiver. If you have a player that doesn't decode but sends it to the receiver to be decoded then you will need a receiver that can do just that.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
Regarding "bookmarking", I read that some players dump those bookmarks when they are turned off.
dsa_shea; I don't have a HDMI receiver, nor do I want to go out and buy one.
With a non HDMI receiver I would have to buy a BD player that decodes this 'new and improved' audio to get something other than two channel audio into the receiver?
dsa_shea; I don't have a HDMI receiver, nor do I want to go out and buy one.
If you have a player that doesn't decode but sends it to the receiver to be decoded then you will need a receiver that can do just that.
#8
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
Correct.
You have a few options for connecting:
- HDMI to a new, HDMI-capable receiver that decodes the new lossless formats, i.e. Dolby True HD and dts Master Audio.
- Optical or coaxial digital output will strip off the lossless option, but your existing receiver will decode whatever lossy formats it's capable of, such as Dolby Digital or dts.
- Blu-ray player with built-in decoders connected to your receiver via analog cables. The BD player will decode the lossless formats, then pass the uncompressed signal to your receiver.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
will strip off the lossless option, but your existing receiver will decode whatever lossy formats it's capable of, such as Dolby Digital or dts.
Blu-ray player with built-in decoders connected to your receiver via analog cables.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
Now regarding the Java part of the question;
Why isn't the application already loaded (or have the ability to load) within the player like a PC instead o having the app. included with each and every disc??
Why can't that be within the firmware?
Also, when backing up these BD discs, is there a choice not to include the app if you aren't interested in all the bells & whistles?
Why isn't the application already loaded (or have the ability to load) within the player like a PC instead o having the app. included with each and every disc??
Why can't that be within the firmware?
Also, when backing up these BD discs, is there a choice not to include the app if you aren't interested in all the bells & whistles?
#11
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
For now? I'm curious what more you would want. Even with legacy connections (optical or digital coax) you get 5.1 lossy audio at slightly higher fidelity than DVD.
Not necessarily. It just depends on what else you want in a Blu-ray player and whether you have any other compelling reason to get a new receiver. If you love the sound with your current receiver and it has multi-channel analog inputs, then it might make more sense to just spend $500 on an Oppo BDP-93 than to spend $100 on a lesser Blu-ray player and $400 on a budget receiver.
You're asking a futile question here, because:
1. Receiving an answer would require you to understand technological details that you don't currently grasp.
2. Even once you grasped them, it wouldn't change the way it works or your lack of satisfaction with it.
It depends on what you mean by "backing up" but that discussion could quickly turn toward a violation of forum rules.
Not knowing how much more that adds to the cost, it would then make more sense to put that $$ towards a new receiver.
1. Receiving an answer would require you to understand technological details that you don't currently grasp.
2. Even once you grasped them, it wouldn't change the way it works or your lack of satisfaction with it.
Also, when backing up these BD discs, is there a choice not to include the app if you aren't interested in all the bells & whistles?
Last edited by kefrank; 12-21-11 at 12:12 PM.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
I'm curious what more you would want.
then it might make more sense to just spend $500 on an Oppo BDP-93
understand technological details that you don't currently grasp.
#13
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
Whether you think the upgrade in audio is worth buying a new receiver is up to you, just like it would be up to you to decide to buy a 1080p TV. I just use optical with my Blu-ray player and have been very happy with the audio quality and don't want to spend the amount of money I would need for a receiver that would have everything I want (at least don't want to spend it now). We can't tell you whether you will think it's worth the money. We can just tell you the functionality, which we have done. Optical cables will work just like optical cables are supposed to work with a Blu-ray player.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
It would never make any sense to spend $500 on just a player.
And you know this how?
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
He's probably basing that on some of the questions you asked here.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
kefrank; I think you misunderstand me. All I was saying was, many seem to think since I'm upgrading to Blu-ray, I should upgrade the audio also. Again, for now, I'm ok with 5.1 as is. It would be nice to make another step, but all I wanted was to replace my existing player and Blu-ray seemed to make more sense than just getting another DVD player.
As far as spending $500 on a player, yes it is subjective just as it is subjective to spend $20k on a pair of speakers.
Yes, I know you didn't, sorry that I asked some basic questions. Every time someone re-invents the wheel, I gasp and shake my head between the dozens of new acronyms and other related details. You think you have a handle on things, but you find out you don't have a clue.
As far as spending $500 on a player, yes it is subjective just as it is subjective to spend $20k on a pair of speakers.
I didn't intend that to be antagonistic at all.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
As far as spending $500 on a player, yes it is subjective just as it is subjective to spend $20k on a pair of speakers.
Yes, I know you didn't, sorry that I asked some basic questions. Every time someone re-invents the wheel, I gasp and shake my head between the dozens of new acronyms and other related details.
But that's progress for you. There's a general rule with technology that says: with increased functionality comes increased complexity. :/
#18
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
Keep in mind when/if you do this, most BD's are 50 gig discs. So even if you have a dual layer BD burner, the dual layer discs are probably more expensive than the movie itself. If you choose to strip down the extras and compress the movie to a single layer 25 gig disc, the quality will definitely suffer.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
kefrank; Yes, the term 'never' probably should not of been used.
trespoochies; I thought (assumed) BD movies were 25Gb?? Sure it's not 25 for the movie and 25 more for the Java & extras??
trespoochies; I thought (assumed) BD movies were 25Gb?? Sure it's not 25 for the movie and 25 more for the Java & extras??
Last edited by videobruce; 12-21-11 at 06:09 PM.
#20
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
Not in the least. If I had to guess, I'd say 75-80% of the movies released on BD are 50 gig. You can downconvert to 25, but again you're just sacrificing picture quality. Seems like you're defeating the purpose just to avoid dealing with what you call "unnecessary gimmicks". If you're assuming movie only is on 25 gigs, and everything else is on the other 25, that would be incorrect. The movie takes up most of the space.
#21
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
To answer your question about Java, there is no "common Java app" that they use for every disc. Each disc has its own unique Java app (should it choose to go the route of Java), so what you have proposed is impossible. What is within the player firmware is the Java Runtime Environment which executes the unique and different app on each disc.
Regarding resume playback, I've noticed a much higher percentage of more recently authored discs with Java to have the resume function added to the app. Studios seem to be finally getting the message that consumers want resume functions.
Regarding resume playback, I've noticed a much higher percentage of more recently authored discs with Java to have the resume function added to the app. Studios seem to be finally getting the message that consumers want resume functions.
#22
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
To answer your question about Java, there is no "common Java app" that they use for every disc. Each disc has its own unique Java app (should it choose to go the route of Java), so what you have proposed is impossible. What is within the player firmware is the Java Runtime Environment which executes the unique and different app on each disc.
Regarding resume playback, I've noticed a much higher percentage of more recently authored discs with Java to have the resume function added to the app. Studios seem to be finally getting the message that consumers want resume functions.
Regarding resume playback, I've noticed a much higher percentage of more recently authored discs with Java to have the resume function added to the app. Studios seem to be finally getting the message that consumers want resume functions.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
If you're assuming movie only is on 25 gigs, and everything else is on the other 25, that would be incorrect. The movie takes up most of the space.
To answer your question about Java, there is no "common Java app" that they use for every disc. Each disc has its own unique Java app (should it choose to go the route of Java), so what you have proposed is impossible. What is within the player firmware is the Java Runtime Environment which executes the unique and different app on each disc.
This whole setup is ridiculous and unnecessary. It's suppose to be a movie, not a computer. A huge quality increase isn't enough? Watch the movie, forget the nonsense.
I though regular DVD's were bad with all the added crap, this bloat only adds to the complexity and to the problems. It's hard to say which is worse, this or those even more ridiculous so called 'apps' for Internet streaming that rarely work judging by all the problems according to the hundred or so reviews from Amazon and elsewhere that I have seen.
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Re: Blu-ray, Java, inability of resume, loss of compatibility with non HDMI A/V recei
You said you were replacing a current Oppo. To other Oppo owners, that gives a sense that you appreciate a well made machine with great customer service and a proven track record of firmware upgrades. Many people also prefer Oppos for region free capabilities...If any of this matters to you, I don't think it was presumptuous to recommend the Oppo 93 over some less expensive no name machine. I have multiple players including a region free modded Oppo 93, a PS3, a Panasonic and two Sonys. Although the Oppo and the PS3 were by far the more expensive machines, they were easily the best values to me (for different reasons).