morriscroy

No point in buying any further Star Trek bluray season sets, if I'm hardly watching through any of the ones I already have.

I mind as well just wait until they start dipping into the $15-$20 range. (I know it will be a long time). Not exactly a priority for me at this time.

hdnmickey

Given the generally lower prices for TV BD's these days, I personally don't think the increased price of the TNG BD's is warranted. I get that there was more production cost involved, but not THAT much given the MUCH higher price. I would say I would love DS9 to get BD's treatment, but I can;t say I would buy in if the prices were the same, or even higher if they are going to use the production cost excuse.

jjcool

Haven't bought the seaon sets on blue ray yet. Simple reason is price. I already own the dvd sets of Next Gen and DS9, and to be honest with you I have watched each set once. THese are way overpriced compared to other season sets on blue ray. Trek has always been an expensive proposition on disc though. I do not see rebuying any of the sets I already own. However, I do plan on buying Voyager and Enterprise.

Jay G.

How much do you think it costs to remaster some twenty-odd episodes by going back to the original film elements, rescanning, and redoing all the effects? How much more do you think this costs than having an existing HD master?

Not to mention, TV on BD isn't exactly a hot seller, and many studios are dropping their BD versions of new shows. So those low prices aren't leading to enough sales to justify their release:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/620...y-love-fx.html

I'd rather have "overpriced" releases than no releases at all.

PatD

This is a sticky wicket for Paramount and CBS. Deep Space Nine and Voyager are two of the least popular Trek shows PERIOD. And more than that, they were far more visual effects heavy than TOS and TNG. So, unless there's a major spike in sales of the present Trek Blu rays they may never be put out on Blu. But, who knows ultimately.

Mike86

The remastering job for the series was much more extensive than you think and a lot of times involved the studio completely re-rendering the special effects shots so they'd look good in HD. Plus not to mention finding the original film sources for each episode and rescanning them. A lot of the shows on Blu-ray that aren't very highly priced are more modern shows which are mostly filmed and broadcast in HD to begin with and essentially just get transferred to disc when the time comes.

hdnmickey

Maybe it's because I haven't watched it recently enough to remember, but was DS9 really more effects heavy than TNG? The shots of Odo changing, the last seasons where the Defiant was used more, but there were so many episodes that could have used very few effects if any. More makeup, but not more effects.

DS9 also seems to be far more popular among the target demographic than TNG.

As for price , I'll put it this way. Would they rather sell (as an example) 1,000 copies at $50 each or 2,500 copies at $25 each. I suspect I'm not the only one that would consider buying (at least the better seasons) at a lower price point that is more on par with the other series out there. Maybe an eventual complete series box will have a reasonable per season price compared to the individuals.

DJariya

But you can't look at it that way. Yes, you can sell more copies of TNG at $25 a pop, but physical and post production costs probably make that price point prohibitive. They can't sell these at a loss, otherwise CBS won't want to make them anymore. The physical costs to make and package the discs probably aren't that expensive, but the post production work is what you have to take into account and they need to profit from that investment.

hdnmickey

Of course I can. And if the physical costs are minimal it's simply sell twice as many copies at a lower cost or far fewer copies at a higher price. I'll always choose the price point that will move far more copies. Only if the physical costs were high would I be taking too much of a risk.

bsmith

Heck, I would go the other way and say that I'm not sure they are making any money on these given the costs to rescan from scratch and redo the FX's. If it wasn't for recouping costs with future HD syndication, I'm not even sure CBS would have ever attempted such a costly effort. First there is the cost of authoring and producing the disks that all BD releases go through. Then there is rescanning the negatives and cleanup that some go through. Lastly, the recreation of FX's in HD that almost no other release goes through. I would think steps one and two can be automated to a degree. I think the last step is the most costly.

I would really like to see DS9 in HD, but at this point it doesn't look good.

hdnmickey

If that is part of it, that makes sense. Have they recieved some big bucks from somebody for the rights to air these beyond the theater showings there have been for some episodes? They certainly are not going to make money at the current BD price point. And that's IF a person could find them at a B&M store in the first place. Most sotres I know that have plenty of TV DVD and BD releases don't have these ST TV BD's.

And then what is the excuse for the Enterprise prince point? Seems to be close to the same price per season despite not needing the work others seem to be willing to pay for by buying the TNG discs.

bsmith

I'd say their even smarter than that. Once they price cheaper to sell more they are stuck at that price. They don't need to have them all sold in the first few weeks.

First, find the highest price you can justify for the main demographic of fans that will pay it and get those sales. Then let the distributors cut there margins over time to move their excess stock providing a lower price to the next level of interested party. Next cut the price to distributors to unload extra stock from the studio for an additional discount. Last, provide a complete series at a discount and repeat.

Better to set artificial price points overtime to support the varying market interest levels, and let the distributors take the hit when possible based on extra stock. Those that buy early paid more but have the opportunity to enjoy it sooner. Those that buy later get to save money.

I would say from the CBS perspective you just aren't in the initial demographic they are selling to. But at some point through the process you will probably find the price you are looking for.

hdnmickey

Again, if this happens then I will agree the strategy was sound. But they might be running out of time. How much longer will stores carry BD's? Especially old TV shows that are at the $20-30 mark? Probably should rethink the timing of their plan if that is indeed the plan.

bsmith

CBS is just future proofing much of their library for HD syndication. It isn't just Star Trek series but Fugitive, Perry Mason, Gunsmoke, Andy Griffith Show, as well as many more. They are all HD ready and will provide revenue for decades to come as SD channels continue to fade away and only HD channels are available, as well as streaming.

I would say Enterprise was more of a cash grab since it was ready to go. Same as the I Love Lucy and Andy Griffith Show season 1 HD releases. They want to establish a pricing model going forward. Some of these shows may not have as strong a following, at least when it comes to upgrading to HD.

But Star Trek does. My take is that TNG (and DS9 and Voyager if they decide on the full treatment) are the only ones that can bring in the revenue to justify what they are doing. And i don't mind paying the extra amount to get the best product. I just hope they think DS9 is worth it.

hdnmickey

And if they are going to have other revenue sources for the HD TNG episodes, then the relatively few BD's they will sell at this point also feel like a cash grab. JMHO.

And that's me... Somebody that knows about the work that went into the HD effort. Can't imagine how some fan that doesn't know about this stuff feels about seeing prices that are more than double (in some cases triple) of anything else they see for other TV seasons.

bsmith

For the most part, stores have already given up on stocking much of anything that isn't current. There is just too much content on disk for a physical store, it is all about online purchases.

I would say it is already working. On release day you can typically pickup TNG on BD for $60 to get the initial sales. Then it goes back up to $80 for a while. Some fans that miss the initial deal will pay the $80. Then when the next season comes out you will typically find previous seasons on sale for just below $50 (that is the distributor pushing old stock). You just have to give it more time to work through the process.

Take Gunsmoke for example on picture perfect remastered HD currently down-converted for DVD. Pre-order for $40+ a half season. Initial sales on release around $20-$25 then back to $40+. Prior seasons for $20 again when new seasons go on sale. After a year or two early seasons going for $15.

It is just a matter of individual interest level, price point, and waiting for the two to merge into a sale.

bsmith

I hear you, but the first demographic, the biggest fans will justify it. If there is a series they really want, they will justify it with all the deals they made on other series. Also, something like Star Trek has a long history on media. The biggest fans have been there before and paid more for VHS tapes than DVD's. These BD's are lower in price or at worst case no higher then what was paid for initial DVD releases.

The reason it sticks out for you is that you obviously don't fit that demographic. It might interest you but not at the current price. Again, it will get there at some point and if the interest strong enough you will probably pick it up when the price makes sense for you.

bsmith

Just curious, what makes you think they are only going to be able to sell a relatively few BDs at this point? As far as i can tell they are selling quite well. Especially on release day. Maybe not at the $90+ price, but they make it down to $60, and even $50 from time to time.

Josh Z

Shows like this (and TV shows in general, for that matter) have a lot more visual effects than you might realize. Even a simple shot of two characters having a conversation in a hallway may have been shot in front of a green-screen so that some production design element could be composited in behind them later.

hdnmickey

I am aware of these effects. But was that secifically the case for the majority of DS9 epsisodes? Seems like the answer was no, but maybe I will have to rewatch them again to catch more of this.

Tracer Bullet

Are you kidding? They basically had to go back and recut each episode. That is tremendously expensive.

Supermallet

Also, this is Star Trek. Paramount and CBS know they can charge a premium and enough customers will pay it to make it worthwhile.

And now they're holding a carrot out and they're saying they want to do DS9 and Voyager on Blu. But they're also wielding the stick and saying that the only way we can get those shows on Blu is to buy more of the existing sets. Well I'm not going to buy Enterprise to get DS9. I'm not going to give CBS money for the privilege of giving them more money later.

Mike86

I think the thing is that Paramount knows that there are a bunch of fans of Star Trek and of The Next Generation that releasing the seasons of each of those two shows was pretty much a no brainer. For Enterprise its more of a show that people like or dislike but it was also the newest series and not a ton probably had to be done to make it look good in HD and put it out on Blu-ray.

I think that while both Deep Space Nine and Voyager do have fanbases the demand probably isn't there as much so I can see why maybe those two will be on the backburner for a while. I think that eventually Paramount will put both of them out but I can see them both coming at a slower pace.

Josh-da-man

You could at least get the fourth season of Enterprise. You know, "the good one."

Be sort of funny if season four outsold the other three combined.

Josh-da-man

DS9 and Voyager were never as popular as TNG. Neither got movies and neither are shown a lot in reruns, TNG got four movies and its currently being run into the ground played continuously on BBCA.

Also note that DS9 sort of have an antagonistic relationship among the fanbase where, for a lot of fans it's either one or the other. So both series will not only sell fewer copies than TNG, but they would sort of cannibalize each other.

And, while DS9 has a decent cult fanbase, it's treated like the proverbial red-headed stepchild by the Trek powers-that-be.