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Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

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Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Old 07-10-09, 03:18 PM
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Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment is currently monitoring a poll on the subject of Blu-ray subtitle positions.

Please read this article for an explanation of the issue, and then vote for Option #1.

Please read the entire article. All questions are addressed in it.

At the present time, subtitle positions cannot be adjusted by the Blu-ray player. There will be no option to vote for that. The studio considers this an either/or decision. Either the subtitles are moved up into the active picture area, as they are displayed in theaters, or they stay in the letterbox bar where they will be cut off on many screens.

Even if you may think that this doesn't concern you, this is a very serious problem for many viewers. Please consider the ramifications that votes for any option other than #1 will have on other viewers.

This poll is an opportunity to improve the home theater experience for many viewers, at no expense to the studio and no negative impact to anyone else. Please do not let this opportunity go to waste. This may be the only chance we have to directly affect a positive change on this topic.

Thank you.
Old 07-10-09, 03:21 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

It's not allowing me to vote?
Old 07-10-09, 03:23 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
It's not allowing me to vote?
Read the article, and then follow the link in the article to the poll.

I really ask that people read the article before voting. The article explains the nuances of the issue.
Old 07-10-09, 03:39 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

I did read the article, and I clicked on the link, and it shows me the poll results but doesn't allow me to vote.
Old 07-10-09, 03:40 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Suprmallet
It's not allowing me to vote?
Pretty sure you have to register on that forum to vote.
Old 07-10-09, 03:41 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Voted for option #1.

(FWIW, I've tried to make it a point in my reviews of subtitled films to mention if the subs spill over into the letterboxing bars.)
Old 07-10-09, 03:44 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Since I never use subtitles I personally don't care but voted for what I believe to be is right...and glad I did. Went to my father in-laws house the other night and since he is hard of hearing (the speakers are up waaaaaay to loud) he always uses subtitles for dialog. So I got to see first hand the way Sony (and some other studios but this poll for is for Sony) typically presents subtitles and boy does it suck.
Old 07-10-09, 03:52 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Since I never use subtitles I personally don't care but voted for what I believe to be is right...
...but subtitles aren't just for the deaf or hard-of-hearing. Plenty of English movies have characters who speak in other languages -- sometimes their dialogue is accompanied by player-generated subtitles -- and if you watch foreign films in their original languages, you'll more than likely be using subtitles there as well.
Old 07-10-09, 03:52 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

I've never understood why any studio would do the 'half on / half off' subtitles (as shown in Josh's link)

I don't have a CIH setup, but I still prefer my subtitles to be in the active portion of the frame. I don't like when they're in the black bars at all.
Old 07-10-09, 03:54 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Josh

Its brought up in your article as well as on another forum, but the visual of being at a Theater and having the subtitles appear on the curtains in pretty strong. Any chance you could doctor an image to show how they are presented in a Theater (subtitles over picture) and one where its shown on the curtains (or whatever is below the screen) because how Sony currently does them? When I read that I instantly knew it could be a pain for those people with that screen.
Old 07-10-09, 03:56 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Adam Tyner
...but subtitles aren't just for the deaf or hard-of-hearing. Plenty of English movies have characters who speak in other languages -- sometimes their dialogue is accompanied by player-generated subtitles -- and if you watch foreign films in their original languages, you'll more than likely be using subtitles there as well.
Oh, yes, I know that as well. I don't typically watch many foreign films so Subtitles is never something I use. I may watch 1 or 2 films that require subtitles a year. And in those circumstances where characters in an English film speak a different language (Iron Man?) I've never noticed the subtitle issues (probably since I don't have a screen like his).
Old 07-10-09, 04:54 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Voted for Option #1. I'm not a CIH enthusiast, but it sounds like a frustrating problem for fellow film aficionados so I gotta help out my peeps!
Old 07-10-09, 06:38 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

I have no projector screen so I don't care, and all you rich mofos that do have screens, well F y'all!

Just kidding. I voted option #1.
Old 07-10-09, 07:44 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

I don't have a projector and thus no constant height display. Nevertheless, it bugs me when the subtitles appear on the letterbox bars. I dunno why. It's the only thing that took me out of parts of Gran Torino (a Warner Bros. release).
Old 07-10-09, 10:15 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Even those who will insist on zooming the image to fill a 16x9 screen could benefit from the subtitles being inside the image.

BTW, subtitles may also be used for things like trivia tracks and other extras that play along with the film.
Old 07-10-09, 11:24 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Oh, yes, I know that as well. I don't typically watch many foreign films so Subtitles is never something I use. I may watch 1 or 2 films that require subtitles a year. And in those circumstances where characters in an English film speak a different language (Iron Man?) I've never noticed the subtitle issues (probably since I don't have a screen like his).
In Iron Man the player generated subtitles are placed within the active movie image.

Last edited by RocShemp; 07-11-09 at 12:31 PM.
Old 07-11-09, 09:38 AM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by KillerCannibal
Voted for Option #1. I'm not a CIH enthusiast, but it sounds like a frustrating problem for fellow film aficionados so I gotta help out my peeps!
Thank you. It's nice to finally find a forum where I don't have to fight tooth and nail to convince people to set their own self-centered preferences aside and do something for the betterment of the hobby.

If any of you have been following that poll thread, it really astounds me that, after everything that's been said on the subject, people are still voting to keep subtitles in the letterbox bar. Not only that, they're specifically posting that they're doing it because they can't be bothered to care about anyone other than themselves.
Old 07-11-09, 10:09 AM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Registered and voted for option #1.
Old 07-11-09, 11:07 AM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Josh Z
Thank you. It's nice to finally find a forum where I don't have to fight tooth and nail to convince people to set their own self-centered preferences aside and do something for the betterment of the hobby.

If any of you have been following that poll thread, it really astounds me that, after everything that's been said on the subject, people are still voting to keep subtitles in the letterbox bar. Not only that, they're specifically posting that they're doing it because they can't be bothered to care about anyone other than themselves.
It astounds me that you would be upset about people having a different opinion. It astounds me that you call them self-centered for having a preference, and ask them to make a sacrifice that you aren't willing to do yourself.

I haven't decided if I'll change my mind just yet, but I have always been firmly in the camp of hating subtitles in the movie image. If given the choice, I always want them below the image.

Shrink your image I say.

If I can deal with some films being less than optimal for me and my personal preference, you can do the same. Especially considering that you and your TVs are in the vast minority.
Old 07-11-09, 12:33 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

I think this would be less of an issue if player generated subtitles were done in the same way they were for the movie-centric subtitles in the BD of Iron Man. They were placed within the active movie image and made small enough to not be too obtrusive yet still perfectly legible.

Sadly, the other language subtitles were of the larger sort. Which is something I feel may worry those that are on the fence or still opposed to moving the subtitles into the active movie image. Sony has some huge ass subtitles. Are they just going to move them or will they also significantly reduce their size? That's another factor to consider.

Last edited by RocShemp; 07-11-09 at 12:45 PM.
Old 07-11-09, 04:04 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Trevor
It astounds me that you would be upset about people having a different opinion. It astounds me that you call them self-centered for having a preference, and ask them to make a sacrifice that you aren't willing to do yourself.
I'm not asking anyone to make any sacrifice. You will be 100% able to watch the movie exactly the same as you could before. This will have no impact on you whatsoever.

On the other hand, you're telling me that I can't watch the movie, because your "opinion" throws away half the movie's subtitles on my screen.

What brand of HDTV do you have? How would you feel if Sony released movies that wouldn't display half their subtitles only on your brand of HDTV? The majority of viewers with other brands of TV aren't affected. When you try to bring this to the studio's attention, other people around you proclaim that you're a niche minority whose needs don't matter, and then actively vote for the studio to not fix the problem, simply out of spite, even though it would make no difference to their lives.

I haven't decided if I'll change my mind just yet, but I have always been firmly in the camp of hating subtitles in the movie image. If given the choice, I always want them below the image.

Shrink your image I say.
What do you do for subtitled 1.85:1 and 16:9 movies? Those subtitles are in the movie image now. Are you unable to watch the movies?

What if Sony decided that, since people seem to prefer subtitles in the letterbox bar, that they're going to shink all subtitled 1.85:1 movies down 25% in windowbox format, just so that they can create black bars to put the subtitles? And not even all the subtitles. Just the second line of subtitles. The first line is staying in the picture anyway.



Would you think that's just fine and dandy to watch movies like that in your home theater?

That's what you're asking of others.

If I can deal with some films being less than optimal for me and my personal preference, you can do the same. Especially considering that you and your TVs are in the vast minority.
Right now, this very minute, if you go to see a foreign language movie in a theater, all subtitles will be in the movie frame. If you watch a 1.85:1 foreign language movie, all subtitles are in the movie frame. If you watch a 2.35:1 foreign language movie from Universal, Paramount, or Disney, all subtitles are in the movie frame. In fact, even if you watch a 2.35:1 foreign language movie from Sony or Warner, the first line of subtitles is in the movie frame.

Would this really inconvenience you to let Sony and Warner put the rest of their subtitles in the movie frame, the exact same way every other subtitled movie is displayed? Would that be less of an inconvenience to you than to shink all subtitled movies down 25% on your screen for no good reason whatsoever? Really now?

Last edited by Josh Z; 07-11-09 at 04:08 PM.
Old 07-11-09, 04:32 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Josh,

Perhaps I poorly made my point. I was trying to go out of my way to sound as one-sided as possible, which I feel your post(s) have been on the topic. I'm just saying that people have the right to have the opposite opinion, and want their subtitles off the image at any cost.
Old 07-11-09, 05:20 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Trevor
Josh,

Perhaps I poorly made my point. I was trying to go out of my way to sound as one-sided as possible, which I feel your post(s) have been on the topic. I'm just saying that people have the right to have the opposite opinion, and want their subtitles off the image at any cost.
Yeah, this isn't exactly like the pan & scan debate. It's personal preference.
Old 07-11-09, 06:04 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Sorry, but when that "opinion" and "personal preference" comes at the expense of the needs of others, even after the problem has been clearly explained, that's purely selfish and mean-spirited.

No one needs subtitles in the letterbox bar. Everyone can watch the movie with subtitles in the picture. People who think they prefer subtitles in the letterbox bar will get over it and forget about the whole thing within 30 seconds of watching the movie. In fact, the vast majority of subtitles are already in the picture, and nobody has ever complained about that. Ever. Not once.

However, CIH viewers cannot watch a movie with subtitles in the letterbox bar.

Forums like this are supposed to be about people who share a common hobby coming together to help one another. You have the opportunity to do something very productive and helpful that will make this hobby better. Instead, you're actively choosing not to help anyone, because it would just be too much of an inconvenience for you to care.
Old 07-11-09, 07:19 PM
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Re: Blu-ray Subtitle Poll - Please Read and Vote

Originally Posted by Josh Z
Sorry, but when that "opinion" and "personal preference" comes at the expense of the needs of others, even after the problem has been clearly explained, that's purely selfish and mean-spirited.

No one needs subtitles in the letterbox bar. Everyone can watch the movie with subtitles in the picture. People who think they prefer subtitles in the letterbox bar will get over it and forget about the whole thing within 30 seconds of watching the movie. In fact, the vast majority of subtitles are already in the picture, and nobody has ever complained about that. Ever. Not once.

However, CIH viewers cannot watch a movie with subtitles in the letterbox bar.

Forums like this are supposed to be about people who share a common hobby coming together to help one another. You have the opportunity to do something very productive and helpful that will make this hobby better. Instead, you're actively choosing not to help anyone, because it would just be too much of an inconvenience for you to care.
Wow, I'm not even sure where to start on that.

I was trying to tell you to consider other opinions and to tone your posts down, as you were kind of coming off as a pretentious jerk. And that was before this quoted post.

This forum is about people helping each other. I piss on people about that a lot, especially lately. Lots of us here spend many hours every week helping out the forum. But don't forget about respecting other's opinions and right to disagree, even if you think we're stupid.

Would go thru and disagree with each of your points in the above, but I hope it's obvious that you are way off base.

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