The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
08-18-13, 02:52 PM
#5951
Banned by request
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
08-18-13, 02:53 PM
#5952
DVD Talk Limited Edition
08-18-13, 05:09 PM
#5953
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.
It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.
Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.
Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.
08-18-13, 06:25 PM
#5954
DVD Talk Limited Edition
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
^ You make a number of good points, but speaking for myself, there have been many Criterion releases which I've never heard of either. However, with a spirit of adventure, (and the semi-annual sale at B&N), I have acquired many such titles through the "blind buy". Most of these have proven to be a delight, and still grace my collection today, while several have gone onto the secondary market to recoup my investment (Antichrist ring a bell?).
The point made about releasing movies "he's actually heard of" is moot, since such titles are announced every day from all of the mainstream distributors.
The point made about releasing movies "he's actually heard of" is moot, since such titles are announced every day from all of the mainstream distributors.
08-19-13, 02:18 AM
#5955
Banned by request
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Time to counter the dogpile.
While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.
It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.
Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.
Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.
While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.
It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.
Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.
Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.
Ultimately, Criterion can't possibly please everyone with every release, but to say that they're releasing stuff that no one has heard of is laughable. I don't expect everyone to know every film ever, but if you don't recognize ANY film that Criterion has released in the last few years, then you aren't even trying to know anything about film.
08-19-13, 08:25 AM
#5956
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
And you know Spottedfeather is fucked up if he doesn't know Godzilla. It's fucking Godzilla.
08-20-13, 09:01 AM
#5957
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Time to counter the dogpile.
While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.
It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.
Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.
Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.
While he may not be informed about cinema very well, let's not argue that the Criterion Collection has been pushing it for years, as their releases have been getting less and less "prestige" worthy, and more and more just bullshit, putting hype and value (AND price) on films that frankly deserve none of it, with LESSER titles from directors in their "annuls" popping up more and more, as if we're to believe every egg laid is golden. Even criterion has admitted it has put lesser titles in its library so as to gain access to the ones it wants (case in point, the amazing how to get ahead in advertising was the throw-in in order to get the distribution rights to Withnail & I.
It's hard to look at the first 100 criterion DVD or Laserdisc titles (particularly the first pressing 53 some-odd black spined dvd releases), seeing the immense quality of films presented in those collections as a whole, versus some of the utter shit being put out today by the label, their newer, non-back catalog BD conversions, aka the high spine numbers. If these "all spine" collectors are still falling for the hype, well, shame on them.
Also, not every film fan is all that versed in the depth of world cinema, from all the decades and countries that it covers. People growing up on Netflix and some of the more basic channels will have never heard of a number of great films. I'd put good money on the poster being criticized here as being someone between the ages of 18 and 24, who mostly has seen the same films over and over for his life.
Not everyone is like the fucking retards at some sites that post text orgasms at criterion announcements, those same people really, as a whole, mostly buying into the hype having not seen said titles. I'd rather take an uneducated on world cinema film fan than the people you see posting on the BD.com's monthly criterion announcement, as at least the uneducated poster here is at least honest. A throwaway WWE PPV event sometimes has more artistic merit than shit like Shallow Grave.
08-20-13, 06:22 PM
#5960
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Criterion posted a nice explanation as to why they went the dual format route:
Why Dual-Format?
By Peter Becker
Last week, we announced that in November, Criterion will begin releasing dual-format editions, including both DVD and Blu-ray discs in one package. The response was overwhelmingly positive, but we knew there would be questions. The most common by far were: “Will the package be Blu-ray or DVD size?” (Answer: Blu-ray size, except the Zatoichi box, which will be Blu-ray height in one dimension, DVD height in the other.) “Will it take up more space on my shelf?” (Not if we can help it.) And “Is this going to be true forever?”(Nothing is forever, but as long as it works we’ll keep doing it.)
Those were the easy questions, but we knew there was another, tougher set of questions, because they were the same ones we had wrestled with as we arrived at our decision: “Aren’t you just making DVD customers buy discs they can’t use and Blu-ray customers buy discs they don’t want? Doesn’t this mean lots of waste? Aren’t DVD customers worse off, because they’ll pay more? Why are you doing this? And why now?”
It’s been five years since Criterion announced its first Blu-ray titles. During that time, we’ve taken measures to support our audience no matter which format they prefer. Every Blu-ray release has always been available on DVD as well, and as DVD pressing prices dropped, we’ve even passed along some savings to our DVD customers by pricing new DVD releases at $29.95 instead of our traditional $39.95.
Today, something like 60 percent of the discs we sell are Blu-rays, 40 percent DVDs. The good news is that the growth of Blu-ray has more than made up for the slide in DVD, and our overall audience is growing. But now, instead of having one physical product to produce we have two, and that’s where the problem starts.
The only way we can afford to produce the packages we are known for is to print large runs, because at small quantities the cost per unit kills any hope of breaking even. Larger quantities may cost more up front, but as long as we sell the copies, we can capture the savings over time and deliver you a better, more beautiful product.
Having two physical packages to produce has cut those economies of scale in half. Instead of one big, cost-effective run of DVD packaging, we now need two different runs, each about half as big, one for Blu-ray and one for DVD. But to make the packaging affordable on a per-unit basis, we still need to run the original big, cost-effective quantity of each, meaning, essentially, making twice what we need. The Blu-ray may sell briskly, and the packaging may need to be reordered fairly soon, but the DVD stocks will take longer to dwindle. When we finally run out of DVD packaging, printing another big, cost-effective run will not be an option, because we would never sell enough of the copies to pay for the packaging. And at the price for printing a small run, we might be losing money on every copy we sell. What do we do?
Looking around the industry, we saw lots of answers we didn’t like. We could stop making beautiful, substantive packaging, but that wasn’t really an option. We could stop making DVDs, but that would mean cutting off 40 percent of our customers, including most schools, libraries, and universities. We could just take the DVD out of print after its initial run, but we have always strived to keep all our titles in print as long as we have the rights to them. We could strip down the DVD packaging after the initial run and drop the booklet, but then we wouldn’t be publishing the edition we think our customers deserve. None of those solutions would serve our DVD customers well, and more importantly, all of them would run counter to our mission to keep up the quality of our product and serve our audience as well as possible, regardless of which format they prefer.
The model we kept returning to was dual-format releasing, and the more we looked at it, the more sense it made. What seemed like more waste was actually less. Instead of printing big overruns on two packages, we could now make one big, efficient run again. That would mean less wasted packaging. Discs can be printed in small quantities as needed, so there would be no wasted inventory there either. The savings we’d been passing along to DVD customers had evaporated at this point, but while DVD customers would be back to paying a higher price, they would also be getting a product that was “future-proofed” against the day when they might upgrade to Blu-ray. Blu-ray customers would not pay more for the addition of the DVD discs, so they would be no worse off, and they could even use their DVD copies as loaners to introduce their friends to their favorite films. Most importantly, it would allow us to continue to publish the best possible product, which is what we think you want from us.
So that’s how we got here. We’re still finding our way a bit, but we have a good feeling about this. We’ll still release straight Blu-ray upgrades from time to time, but you can expect all of our new Criterion releases to be dual-format for the foreseeable future. Occasionally, we’ll retire existing DVD and Blu-ray editions and replace both with a single dual-format edition. We’ll continue to use a mix of plastic and paper packaging, but we’re going to do our best to make sure the new packaging doesn’t take up extra space on your shelf. (Check out how compact the Zatoichi set is!) All special features on Criterion discs will appear on both formats, but Eclipse will remain a DVD-only line, in keeping with its original goals and identity.
That pretty much covers the range of questions we received after last Thursday’s announcement. For us, all the questions boil down to one: how can we serve the films and the audience, make the best thing we know how to make, and make enough money to do it all over again tomorrow? Today, the best answer to that question is releasing dual-format editions. We’ll see how that shakes out!
By Peter Becker
Last week, we announced that in November, Criterion will begin releasing dual-format editions, including both DVD and Blu-ray discs in one package. The response was overwhelmingly positive, but we knew there would be questions. The most common by far were: “Will the package be Blu-ray or DVD size?” (Answer: Blu-ray size, except the Zatoichi box, which will be Blu-ray height in one dimension, DVD height in the other.) “Will it take up more space on my shelf?” (Not if we can help it.) And “Is this going to be true forever?”(Nothing is forever, but as long as it works we’ll keep doing it.)
Those were the easy questions, but we knew there was another, tougher set of questions, because they were the same ones we had wrestled with as we arrived at our decision: “Aren’t you just making DVD customers buy discs they can’t use and Blu-ray customers buy discs they don’t want? Doesn’t this mean lots of waste? Aren’t DVD customers worse off, because they’ll pay more? Why are you doing this? And why now?”
It’s been five years since Criterion announced its first Blu-ray titles. During that time, we’ve taken measures to support our audience no matter which format they prefer. Every Blu-ray release has always been available on DVD as well, and as DVD pressing prices dropped, we’ve even passed along some savings to our DVD customers by pricing new DVD releases at $29.95 instead of our traditional $39.95.
Today, something like 60 percent of the discs we sell are Blu-rays, 40 percent DVDs. The good news is that the growth of Blu-ray has more than made up for the slide in DVD, and our overall audience is growing. But now, instead of having one physical product to produce we have two, and that’s where the problem starts.
The only way we can afford to produce the packages we are known for is to print large runs, because at small quantities the cost per unit kills any hope of breaking even. Larger quantities may cost more up front, but as long as we sell the copies, we can capture the savings over time and deliver you a better, more beautiful product.
Having two physical packages to produce has cut those economies of scale in half. Instead of one big, cost-effective run of DVD packaging, we now need two different runs, each about half as big, one for Blu-ray and one for DVD. But to make the packaging affordable on a per-unit basis, we still need to run the original big, cost-effective quantity of each, meaning, essentially, making twice what we need. The Blu-ray may sell briskly, and the packaging may need to be reordered fairly soon, but the DVD stocks will take longer to dwindle. When we finally run out of DVD packaging, printing another big, cost-effective run will not be an option, because we would never sell enough of the copies to pay for the packaging. And at the price for printing a small run, we might be losing money on every copy we sell. What do we do?
Looking around the industry, we saw lots of answers we didn’t like. We could stop making beautiful, substantive packaging, but that wasn’t really an option. We could stop making DVDs, but that would mean cutting off 40 percent of our customers, including most schools, libraries, and universities. We could just take the DVD out of print after its initial run, but we have always strived to keep all our titles in print as long as we have the rights to them. We could strip down the DVD packaging after the initial run and drop the booklet, but then we wouldn’t be publishing the edition we think our customers deserve. None of those solutions would serve our DVD customers well, and more importantly, all of them would run counter to our mission to keep up the quality of our product and serve our audience as well as possible, regardless of which format they prefer.
The model we kept returning to was dual-format releasing, and the more we looked at it, the more sense it made. What seemed like more waste was actually less. Instead of printing big overruns on two packages, we could now make one big, efficient run again. That would mean less wasted packaging. Discs can be printed in small quantities as needed, so there would be no wasted inventory there either. The savings we’d been passing along to DVD customers had evaporated at this point, but while DVD customers would be back to paying a higher price, they would also be getting a product that was “future-proofed” against the day when they might upgrade to Blu-ray. Blu-ray customers would not pay more for the addition of the DVD discs, so they would be no worse off, and they could even use their DVD copies as loaners to introduce their friends to their favorite films. Most importantly, it would allow us to continue to publish the best possible product, which is what we think you want from us.
So that’s how we got here. We’re still finding our way a bit, but we have a good feeling about this. We’ll still release straight Blu-ray upgrades from time to time, but you can expect all of our new Criterion releases to be dual-format for the foreseeable future. Occasionally, we’ll retire existing DVD and Blu-ray editions and replace both with a single dual-format edition. We’ll continue to use a mix of plastic and paper packaging, but we’re going to do our best to make sure the new packaging doesn’t take up extra space on your shelf. (Check out how compact the Zatoichi set is!) All special features on Criterion discs will appear on both formats, but Eclipse will remain a DVD-only line, in keeping with its original goals and identity.
That pretty much covers the range of questions we received after last Thursday’s announcement. For us, all the questions boil down to one: how can we serve the films and the audience, make the best thing we know how to make, and make enough money to do it all over again tomorrow? Today, the best answer to that question is releasing dual-format editions. We’ll see how that shakes out!
08-20-13, 06:34 PM
#5961
DVD Talk Hero
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Sounds good to me. I don't have OCD, so package/disc issues won't affect me like it does other people.
08-20-13, 08:14 PM
#5962
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
This makes perfect sense to me and is exactly the reason I assumed they were doing this. It's just not cost effective to have to put out 2 separate versions of the same product. Also, I will appreciate the ability to lend the dvd copy to friends who have been slow to upgrade. One time I even went out and bought a copy of The Red Shoes on dvd despite owning the blu-ray because I wanted a friend to see it.
08-21-13, 06:44 AM
#5964
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Great explanation. Let the bitching stop.
I totally sympathize with this beloved company's situation. I had no protest from the beginning (and I had already chosen the first person to lend out the bonus Frances Ha DVD to).
I totally sympathize with this beloved company's situation. I had no protest from the beginning (and I had already chosen the first person to lend out the bonus Frances Ha DVD to).
08-21-13, 07:23 AM
#5965
DVD Talk Reviewer
08-21-13, 09:24 AM
#5966
DVD Talk Legend
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Still seems excessive for the Zatoichi set on the consumer end, but maybe it makes even more sense on their end.
Guess they don't care about the DVD copies being "loaned out", although I have no doubt there will be eBay re-sellers for many titles. I guess as long as it's getting their name out, it's a good publicity.
Guess they don't care about the DVD copies being "loaned out", although I have no doubt there will be eBay re-sellers for many titles. I guess as long as it's getting their name out, it's a good publicity.
08-21-13, 11:00 AM
#5967
DVD Talk Legend
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Today, something like 60 percent of the discs we sell are Blu-rays, 40 percent DVDs.
08-21-13, 01:57 PM
#5968
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Speaking as a Criterion fan of ~25 years tenure, I miss the days when dual-inventory was not a real production concern because films were only released on the one consumer format that was vastly superior to all others on the market. Criterion probably could've made a boatload of money releasing on VHS but, for the most part, they didn't. I appreciate greater audience accessibility, but I think something is lost. Criterion used to mean, 'the best movies, presented as well as can be'; now it seems to mean, 'the best movies and some others, presented as well as can be and some other ways'.
08-22-13, 12:43 AM
#5969
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Still seems excessive for the Zatoichi set on the consumer end, but maybe it makes even more sense on their end.
Guess they don't care about the DVD copies being "loaned out", although I have no doubt there will be eBay re-sellers for many titles. I guess as long as it's getting their name out, it's a good publicity.
Guess they don't care about the DVD copies being "loaned out", although I have no doubt there will be eBay re-sellers for many titles. I guess as long as it's getting their name out, it's a good publicity.
That bitch is mine.
08-22-13, 08:17 AM
#5970
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Speaking as a Criterion fan of ~25 years tenure, I miss the days when dual-inventory was not a real production concern because films were only released on the one consumer format that was vastly superior to all others on the market. Criterion probably could've made a boatload of money releasing on VHS but, for the most part, they didn't. I appreciate greater audience accessibility, but I think something is lost. Criterion used to mean, 'the best movies, presented as well as can be'; now it seems to mean, 'the best movies and some others, presented as well as can be and some other ways'.
08-22-13, 08:40 AM
#5971
DVD Talk Legend
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Speaking as a Criterion fan of ~25 years tenure, I miss the days when dual-inventory was not a real production concern because films were only released on the one consumer format that was vastly superior to all others on the market. Criterion probably could've made a boatload of money releasing on VHS but, for the most part, they didn't. I appreciate greater audience accessibility, but I think something is lost. Criterion used to mean, 'the best movies, presented as well as can be'; now it seems to mean, 'the best movies and some others, presented as well as can be and some other ways'.
DVD is still a really good format. There is a lot of good stuff available, and much of it still looks pretty darn good, especially with a good upconverting player. And on the business side, the install base is massive. They would be fools to ignore that market, 40% ain't exactly chicken scratch you know.
You can debate their choices of movies, though most of us are well aware of the need to occasionally present the more mainstream titles in order to get more of the B&W silent gay cowboys eating pudding films that film students get all hot and bothered over.
(No homophobia intended, if you don't get that joke, then you obviously need to watch more mainstream media and fewer B&W silent..., well, you get the idea.)
08-22-13, 10:19 AM
#5972
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
You can debate their choices of movies, though most of us are well aware of the need to occasionally present the more mainstream titles in order to get more of the B&W silent gay cowboys eating pudding films that film students get all hot and bothered over.
08-22-13, 12:23 PM
#5973
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re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Well, I do think that as the big studios move away from physical formats we're probably going to see more of those mainstream titles coming from Criterion, and a movement back towards what they were in the laserdisc days. I'm not sure how much I'll like that change, though - not because "mainstream is bad" or "it harms the purity of the collection" or whatever other nonsense, but just because a lot of those films (like It's a Mad... World) have already gotten good releases from other companies.
Casablanca is an absolute masterpiece of cinema, but I wouldn't be too happy about it re-entering the collection just because it has already been released so many times in great editions with copious extras.
Back in the laserdisc days, I’m sure I would have treasured their discs of 2001 and Blade Runner, since Criterion seemed to be just about the only company who cared enough to release those titles in widescreen and with extras. Now, though, a Criterion release of those films would just seem kind of redundant - the only real “value” being the logo on the box and the spine number.
-
I will say that, at this point in time, I think they do a pretty good job of balancing the mainstream titles and the more obscure ones. A lot of people complain about the IFC deal, but that only seems to lead to three or four titles a year. And most of those titles, so far, have been pretty good (with some *coughtinyfurniturecough* exceptions.)
As the collection gets bigger, it's inevitable that there will be more titles that you don't like - and that can make it seem diluted. But I think they still do an excellent job of picking mostly good-to-great titles to add to the collection.
But that’s the thing - Criterion never released "only the best movies." No matter what kinds of movies you prefer, there has always been some crap in the collection. And when you look back at their laserdisc catalog, I don't think the quality of the average title in the collection has really fallen over the past 25 years. I mean, yeah - they released Citizen Kane. But they also released Evita. And in the laserdisc day they almost certainly never would have released a genuinely obscure masterpiece like Marketa Lazarova or Lonesome (or The Music Room, or Letter Never Sent, or...)
If their inability to release all those great films from the major studios meant being forced to release films that were more obscure and inferior, that would have been unfortunate. But I think once it got harder for them to get rights to some of the "obvious" classics they used the opportunity to look further into their own catalog, resulting in DVD releases of forgotten gems like Il Posto and I Fidanzati. Maybe those aren't quite as great as Citizen Kane - but then again, very, very few films are.
It's not a big deal, but I also think the collection has gotten a little more diverse in the intervening years – they still focus almost exclusively on a few areas of cinema (the US, Western Europe, Russia, and Japan), but at least now they’re releasing a few things from masters like Satyajit Ray, as well as things like that Czech New Wave set. (If they start releasing those World Cinema Foundation titles, that will help matters even more.)
Casablanca is an absolute masterpiece of cinema, but I wouldn't be too happy about it re-entering the collection just because it has already been released so many times in great editions with copious extras.
Back in the laserdisc days, I’m sure I would have treasured their discs of 2001 and Blade Runner, since Criterion seemed to be just about the only company who cared enough to release those titles in widescreen and with extras. Now, though, a Criterion release of those films would just seem kind of redundant - the only real “value” being the logo on the box and the spine number.
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I will say that, at this point in time, I think they do a pretty good job of balancing the mainstream titles and the more obscure ones. A lot of people complain about the IFC deal, but that only seems to lead to three or four titles a year. And most of those titles, so far, have been pretty good (with some *coughtinyfurniturecough* exceptions.)
As the collection gets bigger, it's inevitable that there will be more titles that you don't like - and that can make it seem diluted. But I think they still do an excellent job of picking mostly good-to-great titles to add to the collection.
he said Criterion used to release only the best movies.
If their inability to release all those great films from the major studios meant being forced to release films that were more obscure and inferior, that would have been unfortunate. But I think once it got harder for them to get rights to some of the "obvious" classics they used the opportunity to look further into their own catalog, resulting in DVD releases of forgotten gems like Il Posto and I Fidanzati. Maybe those aren't quite as great as Citizen Kane - but then again, very, very few films are.
It's not a big deal, but I also think the collection has gotten a little more diverse in the intervening years – they still focus almost exclusively on a few areas of cinema (the US, Western Europe, Russia, and Japan), but at least now they’re releasing a few things from masters like Satyajit Ray, as well as things like that Czech New Wave set. (If they start releasing those World Cinema Foundation titles, that will help matters even more.)
08-22-13, 12:40 PM
#5974
DVD Talk Legend
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
While I do think that Criterion's choice of "great films" have become diluted over the years. They don't seem to be as picky as they used to be (ie. just because you can release a Wes Anderson film, doesn't mean you should).... plus other examples.
However, with the disc market dying and the studios making very little money now on catalog titles, isn't it possible that Criterion will soon have access to a lot more high quality films mainly due to the studios having less issues with licensing the titles out - as there's not as much profit in it anymore? It seems like we're starting to see that now with more studios licensing out more major catalog tiltes to Criterion.
I suspect down the road Criterion can afford to be more picky about what they release because they'll have a lot more options.
However, with the disc market dying and the studios making very little money now on catalog titles, isn't it possible that Criterion will soon have access to a lot more high quality films mainly due to the studios having less issues with licensing the titles out - as there's not as much profit in it anymore? It seems like we're starting to see that now with more studios licensing out more major catalog tiltes to Criterion.
I suspect down the road Criterion can afford to be more picky about what they release because they'll have a lot more options.
08-22-13, 02:35 PM
#5975
DVD Talk Hero
re: The Criterion Collection 4K/Blu-ray Discussion and Release Thread
Since CC has a contract with IFC now I really hope they get to do something special with "House of Pleasures." That's such a great film but I hate the Americanized title. It's in French and House of Pleasures isn't even the actual title.
/rant
/rant