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Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

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Old 04-27-10 | 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by The Monkees
I enjoy the first and third one, third one especially, but absolutely hate Temple of Doom, I've only ever seen it all the way through once and don't ever plan to watch it again.
My view also. Not that it will happen, but I'd prefer individual releases so I could skip buying Temple of Doom.
Old 04-27-10 | 05:54 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by lizard
My view also. Not that it will happen, but I'd prefer individual releases so I could skip buying Temple of Doom.
Just sell Temple of Doom and replace the empty slot with Brokeback Mountain.
Old 04-27-10 | 06:29 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Alright, you guys forced my hand, but I'll put it in spoilers so as to not agitate the Temple-haters/Crusade-lovers...

Spoiler:
Originally Posted by Alexandra DuPont

Dear God: You really are going to mount a quixotic defense of Temple of Doom, aren't you?

I'm afraid so. Most people hate it. I sort of love it. In fact, if I feel like spinning an Indy movie in the background in the years to come, I can pretty much guarantee that it will be the last 40 minutes of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.

Mind you, I'll be the first to admit that Temple of Doom has deeply embedded problems, and that there are popular reasons for disliking it — even hating it. The dialogue is ham-fisted. (I invariably cringe during the "What are you — a lion tamer?"/"I'm allowing you to tag along" exchange. "A lion." "Allowing." A homophone! I get it!) It's surprisingly brutal in the middle. In women's-lib terms, Kate Capshaw's scream-queen Willie Scott is such a step backward from Marion Ravenwood that I'm mildly surprised NOW didn't picket the screenings. (The future Mrs. Spielberg, God bless her, got handed a terribly written role — Willie's the shrieking Jar-Jar of the Indiana Jones series.) And let's not even get into the film's retro-colonialist overtones (which I find sort of perversely funny, but still). And the film is so different from its predecessor — confined largely to one locale, not as sophisticated or quest-driven, and very nearly Satanic in its depictions of evil — that it really couldn't help but let viewers down. And the bad blood persists to this day: Several people who knew I had this DVD box a week early made a point of expressing their jealousy — but also invariably went out of their way to slam "the second one."

Still, despite all that, I managed to find not one but two DVDJ staffers who absolutely adore Temple of Doom — and we gave the platter a spin, in the dark, on a flat-screen HDTV with six-channel sound. And we three geeks arrived at the following list of reasons to love the flick:

1. That unimpeachably awesome opening fight over the diamond and antidote, which contains tributes to classic musicals and Hitchcock and just absolutely rocks the house;

2. Ke Huy Kwan as Short Round, who — despite being handed cute-kid dialogue that includes the lines "Hold onto your potatoes!" and "You call him Doctah Jones, DOLL!" — is quite possibly the most likeable and least obtrusive child sidekick in movie history. Check out the wonderful, genuinely warm give-and-take between Kwan and Ford as they play poker or exchange hats;

3. That "Nice try, Lao Che!" visual gag;

4. Harrison Ford's terrific performance — arguably his best as Jones. I love how Indy stars out as a total greedy asshole, with strong shades of Bogart in Treasure of Sierra Madre, and how there's a distinct character arc as he evolves into a Pied-Piper/holy avenger;

5. The movie's look — again, the best in the series — with its striking wide-angle close ups of Indy's face and strong use of reds and shadows. Temple of Doom is a manual on how to use color in film, no joke. (As one DVDJ staffer [who, BTW, owns the original July 1984 issue of American Cinematographer devoted to Temple of Doom] put it, "This movie contains Spielberg's busiest frames, and it's all beautiful. It's a pornography of cinematography");

6. John Williams' score, which is among his very best — expanding richly on the original and adding wonderful themes for Short Round and the slave children;

7. Vampire bats! Severed thumbs!

8. The matte paintings of Pankot Palace, which are among the best matte paintings ever;

9. The sexy, playful, totally '80s, beautifully edited cat-and-mouse sequence where way-horny Indy and Willie are trying to out-wait each other, only to have the flirtation interrupted by a Thuggee assassin. (How can you not love the way that thug steps out of that wall mural?);

10. The super-icky, super-taut bug-tunnel and death-trap set piece, which is a perfect transition between the palace and the Temple of Doom and which very nearly kicks the ass of the Well of Souls sequence (it certainly makes your skin crawl more) and features that great closing gag where Indy grabs his hat as the door's closing;

11. The way the movie shifts so abruptly into scenes of human sacrifice and child cruelty. I'm sorry, I just love what a cinema bomb Spielberg and Lucas drop here: Yes, the horror's laid on a bit thick, but come on — how totally cathartic are those last 40 minutes as a result, when Indy snaps out of the Black Sleep of Kali and dishes out the hurt to faceless Thuggee goons?

12. That little 1940s tip of the hat Indy gives to that cobra statue as he's stealing the stones — a perfect Bogart moment;

13. Amrish Puri as Mola Ram — by far the scariest and most depraved villain in the series. He's mindlessly scary like Orcs are scary, you know? As one fellow staffer put it, he looks like what Abe Vigoda would look like if he were a sadistic Indian child molester;

14. The way Indiana Jones doesn't just look drugged when he's in the Black Sleep of Kali, but instead looks like he's really into all the sadism and blood, like he's actually tapped into some dark part of his personality that was there all along;

15. And, best of all, the movie's final 40 minutes, which are inventive and cathartic and full of righteous fury and pain and thrilling action — it's Lucas and Spielberg working out all their action-geek demons without apology, and God bless 'em for it. I mean, has any movie ever piled one action sequence on top of the next so successfully? That voodoo conveyor-belt fight followed by the mine-car chase followed by the water tunnel followed by the dual-swordsman tango followed by the rope-bridge blowout? With all kinds of semi-perverse shots like the one where both Indy and Short Round are beating the crap out of age-appropriate foes?


Really. The movie's aged well. Better than you might think. Give it a second chance. It's total geek crack.

* * *
Uh-huh. And now I suppose you're going to say the third film "sucks," right?

Now, now. I wouldn't dare to blanket-slag Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade; in fact, I actually softened on it quite a bit after I turned 30, which I'm sure should disturb me but doesn't.

Certainly, there's some wonderful chemistry between Ford and Sean Connery, who plays dotty, arrogant Dr. Jones paterfamilias (a casting coup, that). And River Phoenix does an uncanny and quite funny Harrison Ford impression, glaring and smirking as young Indiana Jones (who, apparently, acquired his whip, hat, fear of snakes and chin scar in a single afternoon in 1912). And kudos to the late Jeffrey Boam (who is, BTW, not complimented once in the supplemental materials) for writing some lively, character-driven, funny dialogue; it comes as a relief after the spoken-word atrocities wrought by Katz and Huyck. And that largely improvised action sequence with the WWI tank? Delicious. (Well, mostly delicious; see below.)

But, all that said: Despite its clearly being Spielberg's favorite and most personal film in the series — unresolved Daddy issues and all — Last Crusade commits two filmic sins I won't readily forgive:

1. It resorts to mockery. It's one thing when a sequel tweaks its characters a little — but Last Crusade revels in making fools of its protagonists, to the degree that it takes me out of the movie and undermines any sense of danger the film may hold. While I generally enjoy the Oedipal dynamic between Papa and Junior Jones, there's just one too many moments for my taste where Henry makes Indiana look like a total jackass. And don't even get me started about what they did to Marcus Brody: In Raiders, Brody is an obvious mentor to Indy and no minor badass himself; as he says, he's only five years too old to have undertaken the quest for the Ark himself. But in Last Crusade, Brody's a doddering buffoon, a drunk with Alzheimer's, a man who gets lost in his own museum. Watch how his comedy "bits" with Sean Connery almost derail any tension to be had in the desert battle with the tank. It's almost unforgivable. And Sallah, so resourceful and charming and filled with music in the first film, is kind of a doofus here, stealing camels for his relatives and otherwise serving as wacky-Arab comic relief.

2. The movie contains very few actual thrills. In Raiders, Indiana Jones took on sadists, Nazis and a fierce competitor (not to mention a pissed-off ex-girlfriend). In Temple of Doom, he fell into a subterranean hell and took on the very minions of Kali. In Last Crusade, he takes on a bumbling group of idiots — and, as a result, very little of the film's action leads me to believe that Indiana Jones is in any real danger. Seriously. Who are our bad guys here? Guys in fezzes? A Nazi commander out of a Mel Brooks movie? And, dear Lord, I very nearly forget that Julian Glover is even in the damned thing, and he plays the bad guy who gets the supernatural-disintegration treatment! And Glover was my old flame's acting teacher! Am I really supposed to consider this British-channeling-American slice of Wonder Bread a threat? Get back in your AT-AT, General Veers!
And this doesn't even mention how so many of Indy's defining traits are all picked up in one single afternoon when he was a teen - that's just stupid.

But ultimately, Temple of Doom was a fun roller coaster ride while Crusade was a boring retread.
Old 04-27-10 | 09:42 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Was that posted a few years back over at AVS, slop101? Cos I know I've read it before.

I agree with points presented there. And, though an unpopular stance, I love all four to varying degrees. Yes, even Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (I just wish they'd used Ray Winstone's character in an effective manner during the final act).
Old 04-28-10 | 12:49 AM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by slop101
Alright, you guys forced my hand, but I'll put it in spoilers so as to not agitate the Temple-haters/Crusade-lovers...

And this doesn't even mention how so many of Indy's defining traits are all picked up in one single afternoon when he was a teen - that's just stupid.

But ultimately, Temple of Doom was a fun roller coaster ride while Crusade was a boring retread.
Actually, it does. Good points, though. In the past few years I've been hearing a lot of Last Crusade hate. I'd always felt, in some nagging way, that it was inferior despite my enjoyment for it, but the various dismissals of it recently have really opened my eyes to all the (very Spielbergian) things that are wrong with it. Whenever I think of Spielberg, I think of that moment in Minority Report where the jetpack fries the burgers on the stove, and I roll my eyes internally; I just hadn't ever fully realized how much Last Crusade lives into that kind of material.

Last edited by tylergfoster; 04-28-10 at 12:52 AM.
Old 04-28-10 | 06:48 AM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by slop101
Alright, you guys forced my hand, but I'll put it in spoilers so as to not agitate the Temple-haters/Crusade-lovers...

Spoiler:
And this doesn't even mention how so many of Indy's defining traits are all picked up in one single afternoon when he was a teen - that's just stupid.

But ultimately, Temple of Doom was a fun roller coaster ride while Crusade was a boring retread.
Nice post, and I find myself agreeing almost point-for-point. Raiders is by far the best, but I do vacillate between the sequels for second place.

Crusade is to Raiders as Jedi is to Star Wars. The plots of each sequel are designed to echo the original.

Last edited by Qui Gon Jim; 04-28-10 at 06:50 AM.
Old 04-28-10 | 06:58 AM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Yeah that is a really goo dpost slop. I will say I still enjoy ToD quite a bit but have still considered it the "least" of the series...well at least until KotCS. Your points about Sallah and Brody are spot on and almost predict the crap we'd see in later Lucas stuff, but I still love the Ford-Connery moments.
Old 04-28-10 | 10:47 AM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Though I thoroughly agree with them, those are not my points. I gave credit to the author, who's full review can be read here.
Old 04-28-10 | 01:24 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Just like with the DVD I'll be there for the set as soon as it's released, but Indiana Jones begins and ends with Raiders for me. Both sequels are ass imo, just in different ways.

TOD, despite a nicely dark, 'weird menace pulp' style villain in the Thugee cult, shamelessly panders to the kiddies with almost as much enthusiasm as TMP would. Not only do we get an inappropriate child sidekick (guess Indy got a great deal on a disposable Asian street urchin, since he was never referenced, even obliquely, since- and that's how I like to envision Indy, as a guy who would would put a kid in harms way every chance he can get and never give the person another thought), but we get Indy as the literal savior of a whole village of children *hurl*. On top of that, we get an gratingly annoying love interest. And all this is under the lead footed direction from Spielberg, who never wastes an opportunity to over emphasize any gag or heroic beat. If you read the fascinating story conference transcripts from the first get together with Kasden for Raiders, you can see how Spielberg was never really on the same page in terms of the character as Lucas (and Kasden) were. There is apparently a lot more of Spielberg's (negative) influence on the character in TOD.

TLC is derivative, silly, smears characters that were handled realistically in Raiders for cheap, easy laughs, and has some of the most phony and facile sentimentality of any Spielberg film (and that's saying alot). For an example of what I'm talking about here, check out how the end of the (derivative) tank chase plays out. The father, thinking his son has gone over the cliff, gets all emotional and pours out a heartfelt confession of things he never said to him/wished he's said. But it's all phony. The scene doesn't represent an honest point in the arc of the fathers character- it's all done for a visual gag where Indy creeps up alive behind him, and after the joke is played, the characters resume their previous action figure motivations.
This kind of material is the antithesis of what made Raiders so good at the time.

Unfortunately ROTL is so good, that I won't be able to wait for an individual release so I get stuck buying glorified drink coasters every time. This time won't be an exception- though I'm afraid that with 2+ years having passed, Lucas will feel fully justified making this a 4 film set now.

Last edited by Paul_SD; 04-28-10 at 01:34 PM.
Old 06-18-11 | 02:07 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Found this on the blu-ray.com forums:

Frank Marshall, the producer of all 4 films, was on "Geek Time" yesterday. He said the transfers for the blu-rays are done and approved by Spielberg with modifications. All he said was changed was the brightness during the jungle chase at the beginning of the film. Spielberg felt it was too dark. He gave no release date but having the blu-rays done and approved I'm betting spring 2012 which has been speculated elsewhere too.
Old 06-18-11 | 02:50 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Hell yes, I'll take that one change if that's all he really tinkered with.
Old 06-18-11 | 05:47 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

That's great news! I was worried since Lucasfilm altered some effects for Raiders when it aired on the HD Network. Glad to see they're not porting them over for the Blu-Ray.
Old 06-18-11 | 05:55 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by The Valeyard
That's great news! I was worried since Lucasfilm altered some effects for Raiders when it aired on the HD Network. Glad to see they're not porting them over for the Blu-Ray.
What changes did they do?
Old 06-18-11 | 06:28 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

It was just one effect, of a van going over a cliff. For some reason they stretched out the cliffside, gave it a bit more dimension than the original matte painting.
Old 06-18-11 | 06:55 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

It's done now and they're waiting until next year? Good lord! Let this come out for Christmas!
Old 06-18-11 | 07:24 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

They are probably waiting to tie it in with the official announcement of the next Indiana Jones movie
Old 06-18-11 | 07:48 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by droidguy1119
It was just one effect, of a van going over a cliff. For some reason they stretched out the cliffside, gave it a bit more dimension than the original matte painting.
Hmm...I always remembered it that way.
Old 06-18-11 | 08:24 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
It's done now and they're waiting until next year? Good lord! Let this come out for Christmas!
I wish, but it won't. And we all know why.
Old 06-18-11 | 09:12 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/e_sFW8grQtU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Old 06-18-11 | 11:31 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Temple of Doom is my favorite of the three. Seriously. I saw it a hundred times that summer for $1 at my local theater. Me and my buddy would spend the day scouring the city for "10 cent refund" aluminum cans so we could go see it every night for an entire summer. Great memories. It's still my favorite. At the time Last Crusade came out I was very disappointed in it, but over time as I have seen it more, I have grown to like it a lot. Crystal Skull was complete garbage. All of it. I really hope they redeem themselves with the next one and give Indy a nice send off.
Old 06-18-11 | 11:40 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Pricing: $89.99 for all four movies. $109.99 without Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
Old 09-13-11 | 07:52 AM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Some updates from Speilberg himself. Apparently he's just waiting now for Lucas' approval. I personally say fuck that because that means Lucas will somehow insert Shia Lebouf into every film, but I guess we'll know the second half of 2012. This is per digitalbits and De Lauzirika who attended last night's screening.

At last night's L.A. Times/Hero Complex screening of Raiders of the Lost Ark in Los Angeles, director Steven Spielberg confirmed that the Indiana Jones films are "coming soon" to Blu-ray, but only when producer George Lucas is ready. Spielberg would apparently like that to be within 6 months, while Lucas is apparently on more of a 12-month schedule. [Editor's Note: Our industry sources continue to tell us to look for the release in the 2nd half of 2012, as part of Paramount's 100th studio anniversary celebration.] The print that was shown last night was the digital restoration that will be used for the Blu-ray, and it apparently looks terrific. Spielberg reportedly made a point of noting that nothing has been tampered with in the film and there's no added dialogue, which drew some laughs from the crowd for obvious reasons. It's not yet decided if the set will include all four films in the series or just the unreleased trilogy. Star Harrison Ford was also on hand at the event as a guest and said he'd be up for doing a 5th Indy film as long as his character "isn't going to Mars" (which drew more laughs as you can imagine). Talks for a sequel are apparently under way.
Old 09-13-11 | 08:43 AM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

So when does Mola Ram start shouting things that weren't in the original and when does Indy shooting the arab swordsman go from a gun to a cannon? Or can Indy use the force to stop the giant boulder? Will Indy finally learn how to spell "Iehovah" so he doesn't almost fall to his death and the film is therefor more family friendly?

I want this to be done right but I just can't get myself excited because George Lucas will certainly find a way to fuck it up.
Old 09-13-11 | 12:57 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by SethDLH
So when does Mola Ram start shouting things that weren't in the original and when does Indy shooting the arab swordsman go from a gun to a cannon? Or can Indy use the force to stop the giant boulder? Will Indy finally learn how to spell "Iehovah" so he doesn't almost fall to his death and the film is therefor more family friendly?

I want this to be done right but I just can't get myself excited because George Lucas will certainly find a way to fuck it up.
Did you not read the post that was right above yours?

Spielberg reportedly made a point of noting that nothing has been tampered with in the film and there's no added dialogue, which drew some laughs from the crowd for obvious reasons.
Old 09-13-11 | 01:16 PM
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Re: Indy trilogy possibly to Blu by year's end

Originally Posted by trespoochies
Some updates from Speilberg himself. Apparently he's just waiting now for Lucas' approval. I personally say fuck that because that means Lucas will somehow insert Shia Lebouf into every film, but I guess we'll know the second half of 2012.
He won't insert Shia Lebouf into the first three movies, but you can expect to see some Dugs waddling around random shots, and several protracted "NOOOOOOOOOO"s clumsily dubbed in.


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