Wouldn't the cramped compositions indicate that indicate that they were composing for 4:3? I've noticed a few Buffy scenes where, if there are two or more people in the same shot, where it looks like they're sitting in each others' laps. Looks okay in 4:3, but in widescreen, it seems kind of strange. (Then again, if I was working with Alyson Hannigan, I think I'd want her as close to me as possible.)

Wouldn't object to them releasing the HD version in widescreen since WS is the "natural" aspect ratio for HD material, and the Whedon-preferred versions already exist on DVD.

There are some like that in the second season of Angel too. In the season finale, after the gang gets back from Pylea, there's a shot of everyone bunched together in the hotel. They're all crammed into the center of the frame, and the rest of the 16x9 image is dead space.

I've been tempted by the box sets for both shows, but at this point I'll wait for blu. If Firefly has gone there, these will, too. And they do what they can to give us true HD. You know it's going to happen eventually. In the meantime, I'll just watch other stuff.

I remember reading comments from JMS (Babylon 5 creator) that although he tried to have the show filmed with future 16:9 in mind, directors and camera guys and such tended to forget and film in 4:3 anyway (especially in S1 of B5).

So yes sometimes the shots look like they're composed for 16:9, and sometimes not, but that could just be a matter of directors and such slipping up as far as being used to 4:3 composition like with B5.

For that matter for shows that were going to originally in 4:3, generally there tends to be a lot of dead space on the sides anyway. I'm sure they probably "look" like they were composed for 4:3 since they were going to air like that, but that doesn't mean the directors/producers/etc didn't have 16:9 in mind.

That doesn't make sense, since the directors would know that the show would be shown originally in 4:3. with the 16:9 only a future possibility. So they at the least would've shot with both aspect ratios in mind.

From J. Michael Straczynski in 1993:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.t...c995286f4d8095
In regards to preventing out-of 4:3 frame flubs:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5b284ae8a39f47
In regards to composition:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...6169eead66459c
An important distinction with B5 is that the show creator and exec producer has stated from the beginning that they were shooting with 16:9 framing in mind for future presentation, either on laserdisc, DVD, or HD. In contrast, the creator and exec producer of Buffy has consistently stated that his show was shot with 4:3 framing as its intended past, present, and future aspect ratio.

Fixed.

Sorry to bump this thread but has there been any further developments with this?

I seen on amazon there's a page for Angel on blu ray but there's no other info on it, just the option to be notified when it becomes available. There's not even this much regarding Buffy.

I hate new members who bump old threads.

If there were further developments, there would be a post here - or on a Google search - about it.

Amazon has numerous "placeholder" listings for titles that its shoppers have inquired about, but are not actually announced for release. Many of these never actually get released.

There is no movement on seeing either of these shows released on Blu-ray. TV properties don't sell well on Blu-ray in the first place, much less a show that has been off the air for several years. Angel Season 5 is the only season of either show to actually air in high definition on broadcast.

However, for whatever reason the upcoming season 13 release of "The Simpsons" is hitting Blu-ray, and it's standard definition.

And if it bombs in sales don't expect a season 14.

That's discouraging.

I already own both the Buffy and Angel complete box sets but watching Buffy seasons 1-3 is not ideal as it's so grainy at times and not widescreen either. The latter applies to season 1 of Angel as well so I'd glady purchase the blu ray release of these great shows.

IIRC, the first two seasons of Buffy were shot on 16 mm film and used very low budget production values. Putting those early seasons on BD wouldn't improve things much. Things got better after the show became a hit, but it was still produced as a Standard Def TV show. It is unlikely that enough BD sets would be sold to justify the costs of reworking the series to make it high def and encoding it for Blu-ray.

Fans of Buffy and Angel will just have to be content with the DVDs; a Blu-ray Disc release of the series seems very unlikely to me.

Unlikely but not impossible. Both Buffy/Angel have sold very well on DVD so it's "possible" but as it's been stated... a lot of work would be required so unless they see a big $$$ possibility it's not going to be a priority.

Despite being 16mm they'd still look better on BD. The colors would improve, the compression artifacts would diminish, and black levels, etc. would likely be a heck of a lot better. Anything that's not an effects shot would certainly experience a boost in quality -- while not extremely impressive... it could certainly make it at least a little better.

I'd say what is holding it up is the general lull when it comes to TV on BD and the fact that it's not currently on the air, etc. Unless FOX sees potential to cross promote with a feature fill tie-in or reboot, etc... it's unlikely we'll see such a release anytime soon.

Oh, and 4:3 is clearly the intended ratio. I bought the region 2 release to get the missing "Previously" segments and typically will apply my own mattes to the sides of the frame for season 4-7... it just looks off.

The BODY (S05e16) especially suffers in this regard.

Except all of the special effects would suck. They weren't that great to begin with!

Regardless of your opinion however, I hate to break it to you - a Blu-ray seems highly unlikely.

I'd say if there were a chance in hell of any sort of remaster or enhancement to the effects shots, they might as well apply after-the-fact 'fixes' to the gaffes that are revealed by the expanded framing by digitally erasing things that should be hidden, similar to erasing wires.

"City Of" has one more obvious shot of a reflection - a reflection of the camera used to shoot the scene where Russell Winters is kicked out of the skyscraper office window. Many ANGEL season 1 episodes have similar oddities in the same extremes as season 4 of Buffy.

"Bargaining", like several season 6 Buffy episodes, is full of those light reflectors and shades used to bounce light onto the actors in a scene. Look at the camera pan up to Willow in the graveyard as a good example of that.

I'd like to pick up the iTunes seasons of Buffy, since they wouldn't suffer with the PAL speedup and the recaps are intact - and they are widescreen from season 4 onward, but I don't see myself watching them exclusively on my computer.

That is because neither was filmed for the 16x9 presentation...the intended OAR of both is 4x3.....

"More" image is not always a good thing....Buffy was composed for and always intended as 4x3....would you prefer to view an open matte version of a 1.85:1 film or TV show just because there is more viewable image originally captured on the negative (but not intended to be seen)?

For the most part, I agree with you. The 16x9 episodes of Seinfeld that TBS HD shows just look weird to me.

I've been in these Buffy/Angel widescreen threads for years now. I know all of this already - too well, actually.

For me, and this may be silly but it's the recaps that are the big selling point for me. I HATE that they are missing, no matter how redundant they can be.

Your latter comment should be directed squarely at Josh Zyber, who has taken the "widescreen Buffy is better and should be seen that way" and "both shows were filmed 16:9" to levels reaching complete lunacy over the years.

I should warn you, debating him on this issue is pointless, not because he's right (he isn't) but because he refuses to concede any point that isn't his own. Stubborn doesn't begin to describe him on this issue.

I have seen Buffy seasons 4 through 7 in widescreen, and I find those oddities (as I like to call them) more of a laugh than a negative distraction. I think they're funny because they are indeed NOT meant to be seen.

ANGEL seasons 1 and 2 are the same way, I know that. That being said, I prefer ANGEL in widescreen - intended or not - because of the consistency with seasons 3 to 5, and it does give the show a more cinematic look....by happy accident, that is!

That has always bothered me as well, but supposedly the recaps prior to each episode were not done by Mutant Enemy. Some of them really set the mood for each episode quite well and it would have been very nice to have included them on the sets.

I have a very hard time believing that, because some episodes' teasers depend on the recap:

ANGEL:

Season 2, "Over The Rainbow" - the recap leads directly into the teaser with no break. Several episodes have done this. This time, because the DVD has too much of the recap missing, an entire scene is gone:

Angel, Wesley and Lorne are looking all over the bar for Cordelia, who's now missing, and Wesley says "She's gone! Cordy's been sucked into the portal, she's in the Host's dimension now". Angel looks at lorne and asks "Where's Cordelia", then close-up of Lorne looking very nervous and that's all gone - the DVD picks up after that.

Season 3, "That Old Gang of Mine" - the recap for this episode ends with a large section of "Reprise" and "Epiphany" from season 2 and ends with Angel, after throwing her down and having his way with her (though she was clearly wanting and waiting for this to happen) saying these words to Darla:

"Get dressed and get out, because the next time I see you, I'm gonna have to kill you".

Cut to the teaser of this episode....

Black screen, with Angel's voice saying "That night still haunts me..." then it fades in to a close up of his face as he continues on: " I'm ashamed of how I treated you....I used you, took what I needed and cast you aside and it was wrong. It was very wrong".

Now, thanks to the recap, you're supposed to think he's apologizing to Darla, but instead it's Merl - the snitch from season 2, who Angel hung upside down in a sewer - one in a long list of things Angel did to him just to get information.

Since the recap is missing from Region 1 DVD releases, that joke is completely ruined.

Several season 3 and 4 episodes also led directly into their teasers, such as "A New World", "Habeas Corpses" and "Orpheus", meaning like the "Over The Rainbow" teaser, there was no break, it was seamless.

I don't remember all the issues with the Buffy recaps other than the season 5 finale - "The Gift", and how it was a complete summary of the series up until that point.


Those were too intentional and too dependent to be done by an outside company or something.

What I have always said is that I consider both versions to be legitimate. Look back to post 22 in this thread, written in 2008. If you prefer to watch Buffy's later seasons in 4:3, good for you. Have at it. I prefer the 16:9 versions.

And again I will point out that the show has a ton of flubs visible in the 4:3 versions as well. There are screen caps on page 1 of this thread.

So, because I prefer to watch Buffy in 16:9, that makes me a lunatic. But you prefering to watch the first two seasons of Angel in 16:9 is a perfectly valid choice? Nice.

Except they're not both legitimate. the 4:3 version is the way the show was shot and intended to be seen.

I think the difference is that while you both may prefer an altered, unintended aspect ratio for a show, Nick acknowledges that it is an altered, unintended aspect ratio, while you repeatedly attempt to rationalize your preference as "legitimate."

Jay G. nailed it.

I remember the boom mike screencaps.

I posted my own screencaps as well, and I have plenty more.

Flubs, oddities or whatever term is to be used takes on two different contexts here.

One is within the 4:3 frame and is a legitimate mistake.

The other isn't a mistake or anything of the sort, since they were originally hidden by the 4:3 frame and revealed in the expansion. Those were not mistakes because there wasn't any reason to think they would ever be seen, but obviously as time went on, widescreen masters were created and ruined all that. Pretty simple.

Talk about coincidence:

Why Buffy may never be Blu

Right, and Bram Stoker's Dracula was always so dark that the special effects shots were invisible in theaters.

Jay, since you're intent on arguing with me about everything, I've got a new one for you:

The Earth is round.

Go to town on that one, boy! Prove me wrong!