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Best & Worst Tech of 2008 (Blu-ray: the Worst)
Yahoo! Tech Article
Blu-ray - I'm happy to see that Blu-ray players have come down in price... but the media has not, and there's no way I'm paying $25 to watch Step Brothers. Plus the technology is still, bafflingly, dog-slow. |
In 1998, the 1998 equivalent of Step Brothers was about $25 (in 1998 dollars) on standard-def DVD and earning pretty universal praise.
Today, asking $25 (in 2008 dollars) for it in HD merits you a "Worst Tech" award?! Whatever. ...mainstream tech writers, column inches, etc. |
I remember going in to The Wiz locally and seeing DVDs priced at $25-$30 back in '99. Heck I paid over $20 for Analyze This when I first got my player.
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Originally Posted by Doctorossi
(Post 9140977)
In 1998, the 1998 equivalent of Step Brothers was about $25 (in 1998 dollars) on standard-def DVD and earning pretty universal praise.
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9140988)
It was also a world where you couldn't go down to WalMart and browse a bin full of titles priced for $5, or go into a drug store and get the new releases on Tuesday. In other words, expectations have changed. I think this BD at this point in its life vs. DVD at the same point is an extremely flawed comparison for these and other reasons.
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I love HD but the disc prices really annoy me too, especially after DVDs bottomed out.
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Originally Posted by Doctorossi
(Post 9140977)
In 1998, the 1998 equivalent of Step Brothers was about $25 (in 1998 dollars) on standard-def DVD and earning pretty universal praise.
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I agree, you can't compare the two formats at this point in their lives for the reasons already stated. DVD took a while to change people's habits with regards to movies - they eventually warmed up to the idea of purchasing movies and building a collection. BD doesn't have to do this now.
You have to remember, DVD is still a pretty new format to most people. If the studios expect us to purchase our movies all over again so soon by adopting a new slightly-improved format - the price has to be more enticing. I'm surprised they didn't include the compatability problems as a reason to list it in their "worst" section. The slowness is one thing, but the fact that many discs have problems playing in different players is frustrating. This shouldn't happen to a format that's already 2 years old. |
The entire HD world of media/hardware is the worst product/idea in a long, long time.
Despite its benefits, the technology has confused and frustrated novice users and early adopters alike. Arcane terminology, confusing statistics, ever changing "standards" and marketing terms, clueless stores and salespeople . . . . Very disappointing. |
I remember paying $35 for office space when it first came out, and that was on sale.
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9140988)
It was also a world where you couldn't go down to WalMart and browse a bin full of titles priced for $5, or go into a drug store and get the new releases on Tuesday. In other words, expectations have changed. I think this BD at this point in its life vs. DVD at the same point is an extremely flawed comparison for these and other reasons.
Originally Posted by Doctorossi
(Post 9140977)
In 1998, the 1998 equivalent of Step Brothers was about $25 (in 1998 dollars) on standard-def DVD and earning pretty universal praise.
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I have a shitload of Blu titles coming to me. Average prices are $6.69 for 10, and around $11.50 or so for about 12 titles.
This guy can blow it out his ass. And I certainly paid $34.99 and $29.99 for my DVD titles back in late 97 and 98. First title was The Thing. I paid $35 for that fucker. If you want the LATEST titles, you will pay. Doesn't matter if they are Blu-ray or regular DVD. Which this dumbass doesn't mention. |
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
(Post 9141058)
I have a shitload of Blu titles coming to me. Average prices are $6.69 for 10, and around $11/50 or so for about 12 titles.
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Here's a part of another of the author's articles on Yahoo.
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/111734 Unexpected tech trends and predictions for 2009 "Blu-ray Ascending - It pains me to predict this, but I believe Blu-ray is going to grow in popularity and market share vs. DVD." Why does it pain him to say that? Sounds like this guy hates Blu-ray. Gee, I wonder why someone like that would put it on a worst tech list? |
While I agree that Fox's catalog titles need to come down if they want to be mainstream, I guess I'm just a glass-half-full kinda guy when it comes to Blu-ray software pricing. I used to pay $50 (back when $50 was $50) for an LD with the movie, a trailer and, when I was lucky, a commentary track.
And I used to walk 8 miles barefoot through the snow to school every morning. And I liked it! :D |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
(Post 9141074)
Why does it pain him to say that?
Edited to add -- I don't know what kind of player he's using, but... http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/108657 I've got my own problems with Blu-ray, having been giving it a fresh shot over the last few weeks. The player I have is a real pain vs. my cheapie DVD player. Startup time is ungodly, and I'll never understand why the player can't automatically figure out to play a Blu-ray disc if there's one in the device when it starts up. Instead it goes to an aggravating "home page" after a 30-second wait, and then it's another button press and another minute-long wait before I can get to the Blu-ray disc's home screen. Fast-forward and reverse is jerky and difficult to finely control, and that's a problem because I have to use them all the time due to the player's biggest annoyance: It doesn't remember where you were in a movie if you stop in the middle. If I quit at the 1 hour mark while watching a DVD on my bargain player, it picks right back up there the next time I turn it on. I understand that different model players will have different features, but this is standard on even the cheapest DVD gear. It's unfathomable that a $300 Blu-ray player can't get the job done. Is Blu-ray dead? When people like me who have both units sitting side by side actively prefer using DVD instead of BD whenever they can, you've definitely got some trouble ahead. |
Is this the same guy that predicted HD-DVD to win the format war? If so, that pretty much explains everything.
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
(Post 9141062)
Did you walk into a retail outlet and purchase them at that price? Bulk discounts and buying shit you are on the fence about, to get to whatever a sale requirement is, isn't even close to being the same as having reasonably priced movies on retail shelves.
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Originally Posted by mattysemo247
(Post 9141102)
Is this the same guy that predicted HD-DVD to win the format war? If so, that pretty much explains everything.
It's not like he picked Ralph Nader for president and then is making other political predictions. |
Is Blu-ray dead? When people like me who have both units sitting side by side actively prefer using DVD instead of BD whenever they can, you've definitely got some trouble ahead. Ah, perspective. Ah, priorities. |
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9141120)
So if someone is wrong once, then they are wrong forever? He was hardly alone going into CES2008 which changed everything.
Anyway, I'm getting happier with BD softeware prices. New releases are still way too much, but some studios (Universal/Paramount/Sony/Lionsgate) are making catalog pricing very attractive. Day and Dates are still a major problem with some titles almost double the price of the 1 Disc DVD set...but things should get better. 2009 will be the year of "Digital Copies"...every studio seems keen on this idea. I really wish they would just pack the normal DVD movie instead which would give people considering an upgrade to BD any easier transition (which is why I always liked Combo HD DVDs). Disney has already experimented with this (Sleeping Beauty), and HSM3 BD should have a DVD included instead of a DC when its announced along with Pinochio. |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
(Post 9141074)
Why does it pain him to say that? Sounds like this guy hates Blu-ray. Gee, I wonder why someone like that would put it on a worst tech list? I mean, COME ON, the guy OWNS a Blu-ray player. Doesn't that give him a right to slam it every chance he gets? :lol: |
Originally Posted by SonOfAStu
(Post 9141224)
I mean, COME ON, the guy OWNS a Blu-ray player. Doesn't that give him a right to slam it every chance he gets? :lol:
I guess it's easier to just dismiss him personally instead of intelligently digesting what he has written, and deciding what points are valid and what is trash. I guess the "smart" thing to do is trash the whole thing because it is critical, and by golly we can't allow any criticism, right? |
Originally Posted by Drexl
(Post 9141010)
Yes, The Waterboy was that expensive.
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
(Post 9141198)
:lol: I don't think people really know what went on behind the scenes and how things changed literally in the blink of an eye. It is very akin to how BD "Insiders" were literally notified hours before Paramount went Red in August.
Anyway, I'm getting happier with BD softeware prices. New releases are still way too much, but some studios (Universal/Paramount/Sony/Lionsgate) are making catalog pricing very attractive. Day and Dates are still a major problem with some titles almost double the price of the 1 Disc DVD set...but things should get better. |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
(Post 9141252)
Depends on who's story you believe. None of "us" know 100% what really went on behind the scenes. I've read WB chose BD back in November. I've read they waited to see how HD DVD did during December. I've read about 10 other theories.
Now if he picked HD DVD in March of this year...that would be a different story.:) |
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9141269)
Now if he picked HD DVD in March of this year...that would be a different story.:)
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Originally Posted by Michael Corvin
(Post 9141062)
Did you walk into a retail outlet and purchase them at that price? Bulk discounts and buying shit you are on the fence about, to get to whatever a sale requirement is, isn't even close to being the same as having reasonably priced movies on retail shelves.
Go into any Walmart store, and you will find hundreds of DVD titles priced at $19.97. While I agree that BD prices should be the same, I don't think the disparity is as great as some are claiming. What does need to happen, though, is that studios need to break the mythical $20 price point for BD, and soon. That is the same complaint I had about DVD when it was starting out, and nothing in that regard has changed. Most consumers still have a stigma about spending more than that amount on a movie. I think that if the average BD price were $19.97 right now, we wouldn't even be having this debate. |
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
(Post 9141252)
Depends on who's story you believe. None of "us" know 100% what really went on behind the scenes. I've read WB chose BD back in November. I've read they waited to see how HD DVD did during December. I've read about 10 other theories.
Sometime in Q1, we will see price cuts on catalog titles across the board. Not all catalogs, but a good bit of them. That is encouraging. IF the studios do go along with the idea of releasing a 1-disc dvd and the special edition BD, which is planned for Q3, then I hope at that time they would start to lower the price of the BD just a bit. Getting rid of the 2-disc dvd should save on cost. Then they can sell the bare bones dvd for $15 on release week, and maybe the BD for $22. |
Originally Posted by RoboDad
(Post 9141321)
What does need to happen, though, is that studios need to break the mythical $20 price point for BD, and soon. That is the same complaint I had about DVD when it was starting out, and nothing in that regard has changed. Most consumers still have a stigma about spending more than that amount on a movie. I think that if the average BD price were $19.97 right now, we wouldn't even be having this debate.
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9141269)
I too have heard many stories, but my original point is that this guy shouldn't be dismissed just because he at one point picked HD DVD to win. Regardless of how it happened, before WB went BD only, many were picking HD DVD.
Now if he picked HD DVD in March of this year...that would be a different story.:) |
Maybe it's because I have a PS3, but my experience with Blu-ray has certainly been different than that of the author. I've never been frustrated by load times or changing profiles since owning the player and the prices I've paid for my discs have been worth it to me (I do tend to be patient and wait for decent deals).
His comment that he's not willing to pay "$25 to watch Step Brothers" is a red herring. He seems to be implying that $25 is too much for such a crappy movie, but the studios never price new releases, even on DVD, according to the perceived quality of the movie itself. As a counterpoint, I gladly paid $25 to watch the Dark Knight in hi-def on release day and apparently hundreds of thousands of other people did too. And many, many more paid $20-$23 for the comparable DVD, so I think new release BD prices are just fine (most catalog titles and year-old day and dates are another story). It's also worth noting that he can easily watch Step Brothers on Blu-ray for the $3 to $5 rental cost. |
Originally Posted by RoboDad
(Post 9141366)
But you must admit, having him say that it pains him to predict that Blu-ray will continue to grow kind of implies that he still harbors some bitterness toward the format.
We'll never know unless he tells us. |
Originally Posted by SoSpacey
(Post 9140987)
I remember going in to The Wiz locally and seeing DVDs priced at $25-$30 back in '99. Heck I paid over $20 for Analyze This when I first got my player.
Anyway, more on topic of the thread, that is a horrible article. Christopher Null too often writes these lame articles. I never take him seriously. |
Originally Posted by RoboDad
(Post 9141366)
You're right, that should be reason to dismiss him. But you must admit, having him say that it pains him to predict that Blu-ray will continue to grow kind of implies that he still harbors some bitterness toward the format. Whether that is due to it "beating" HD DVD, or the fact that he has had a bad experience with his player (where many others have not) might be interesting to find out. But in either case, I don't think such bitterness is particularly productive at this point in time.
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While I agree the author was pretty biased, the point is valid, and Brian sums it up pretty well:
Originally Posted by Brian Shannon
(Post 9141035)
The entire HD world of media/hardware is the worst product/idea in a long, long time.
Despite its benefits, the technology has confused and frustrated novice users and early adopters alike. Arcane terminology, confusing statistics, ever changing "standards" and marketing terms, clueless stores and salespeople . . . . Very disappointing. Also, reading about Blu Ray releases that drop extras from the DVD versions? Even if they're in standard def, it won't kill the studio to add them in. Things like that just make me feel it's business as usual for the studios, so I'm going to wait until they really make an effort to sell me on the format. |
Originally Posted by RoboDad
(Post 9141321)
That's true, but then, I think any price comparison made in a vacuum is somewhat disingenuous, including the comparison of a Blu-ray new release title priced at $25 against bargain bin DVD titles priced at $5 (most of which I would never watch, even if you paid me the $5 ;))
However, to the point you made, I do agree that the price between DVD and BD on release its not that great. However, DVD prices drop much faster than the very steady pricing of BD. It really is all about expectations. |
Originally Posted by milo bloom
(Post 9141417)
While I agree the author was pretty biased, the point is valid, and Brian sums it up pretty well:
I just don't feel the yearning to upgrade to HD like I did for DVD back in the day. Also, reading about Blu Ray releases that drop extras from the DVD versions? Even if they're in standard def, it won't kill the studio to add them in. Things like that just make me feel it's business as usual for the studios, so I'm going to wait until they really make an effort to sell me on the format. To your point about missing features, I think the studios have a good idea how to play the double or triple dip game, that is what they are setting up for. Yet again another reason why our country is in the shape it is in. |
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
(Post 9141427)
Absolutely true, but the point I was making was that BD on one hand benefits from DVD blazing the trail into the marketplace, becoming as common an item in any retail establishment as soda pop, on the other hand, suffers from the fact that studios over the years have devalued the "perceived" value of a movie where many people will look at that $25 TDK and say "I'll wait till it hits the $7.50 skid" or whatever pricepoint they are comfortable with. It definitely cuts both ways.
However, to the point you made, I do agree that the price between DVD and BD on release its not that great. However, DVD prices drop much faster than the very steady pricing of BD. It really is all about expectations. So far, Blu-ray seems to be growing in spite of their efforts, not because of them. |
Originally Posted by namja
(Post 9141405)
Yeah, but you could have easily gotten them for $10-$15 back in 1998-2000. With all the dot-com boom and websites nearly giving stuff away, there were always plenty of channels to buy them for cheap. Plus, for so many titles, the DVD prices were the same as or cheaper than VHS prices. Not so with Blu-ray. Blu-ray prices are always more expensive than DVD prices.
Anyway, more on topic of the thread, that is a horrible article. Christopher Null too often writes these lame articles. I never take him seriously. if i walk into Best Buy, today, I am paying $30 for most Blu titles. just like walking in to The Wiz back then and paying $25 for Analyze This. Sure I could have found titles for $15 back then through on-line means, just like today I can get Kill Bill (Blu) for $12.99 on-line, but still have to pay $30 at Best Buy. My first 90 DVDs averaged just over $5/title with all the deals we used to get. But I am talking about the typical shopper and the prices they are seeing in stores now v. then. |
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