I apologize if I made it sound like I thought that would be in a weeks time. I really really doubt that as well. But who are we to even say.

And at the same time I completely agree that you can't rely on two movies to pull a format through to a successful future. But it helps. I'm sure there will be a few shining gems a long the way..hopefully.

BDA is paying what stores for what huge sections .... dvd?
my point was BD is doing quite well for what "limited" retail space it has in comparison to dvd

and pretty much all retail floor space is "paid" for in one way or another

Neutral owners would have finally gone UN-neutral, depending on the competition's features of that particular format. This was a free marketplace, Pro-B. It forced the BDA and the DVD Forum to work on their respective formats and make them viable to the consumer, instead of dragging on. A few more years of dual formats, we probably would have seen some major advances in HD. Maybe Toshiba would have offered special features that a majority of HD owners wanted, or maybe Sony would have come up with a rock-solid solution for trouble-free playing with additional features HD DVD never had. Who knows. We'll never know, but historically, competition has favored the consumer and the technology in the long run.

You obviously remember DVD. Right? So, how long did it take for consumers to finally catch on to DVD? It wasn't a few years, Pro-B. It was like 5 years. Maybe more, come to think of it. If you would have rushed the consumer into a decision only a few years after DVD was introduced, telling consumers VHS is no longer going to made--PERIOD--DVD would have had a much harder time. Like HD is now.


Pro-B, do we really have to bring up Warner again and their obvious incentives to go Blu? Just before CES 2008, WB couldn't find its ass if you gave them a map, a GPS, and a mirror. No, somebody offered them something. And it wasn't a map. Although I'd offer one to them now.

But anyway, I disagree with you. What we can agree on, is Blu-ray is gaining momentum. And this is good for HD in general.

Sorry, I'm too busy watching my BDs to read some nobody's stupid blog.

Zing! Pretty good for a relative newbie!

Seriously, I'll go ahead and enjoy my new releases and catalogs on Blu-ray while a certain few can proclaim it's dead from the top of their lungs. But when it comes down to it, I'll take 1080p and lossless over 480i and lossy any day of the week!

I'm definitely not buying dead. The laserdisc thing was what struck me as a possibility. Hopefully though it does have a solid 4th quarter and all the BD is dying stories on Yahoo and Cnet will go away. If those stories get all over the press and cause potential consumers to avoid the format it is a self fulfilling prophecy.

I am renting more now due to higher disc costs so I'm hoping we see more deals in 2009 though to be honest I'm glad I didn't buy most of the stuff I rented. Who would have though BD would save me money with its higher cost. I'm happy the blockbusters are doing well, but I would like to see the classic films like Young Frankenstein post percentages that are respectable as well. I want more classic stuff (still patiently waiting for Lawrence of Arabia since seeing it in the BD demo in 2006) and more of those films will get me spending more money on purchases. That is the area though I'm worried won't get enough support from BD buyers. Wish we could know how Godfather and stuff like Young Frankenstein and Bonnie and Clyde did on Blu-ray.

I am totally lost as I don't understand the point you are attempting to make. First you supported the notion of duality then you conclude that the natural progression is becoming "un-neutral". Warner put to rest any such concerns by providing the fastest and least painful solution. So, your point?

Agreed. And this is the reason why Toshiba folded it. The BDA beat them in marketing and promotion and won. I am unsure again what your point is. As to competition: I share the opinion that especially in terms of hardware advancement it brought the worst out of a few well known manufacturers (Samsung).

On this one I must disagree. The majority of the extra features both HDDVD and Blu-ray touted have not proven to be a key point in HD's adoption by the masses. This also appears to be the mantra many ex-HDDVD supporters argue on this and other forums: that there are not enough revolutionary advancements Blu-ray offers over SDVD. Do you have anything particular in mind that you believe would have proven to be a key factor in the future? I ask because even though the critics have been vociferous they do not seem to have any idea what the revolutionary advancements could have been?

I tend to agree with you that no one knows. But from what we have seen thus far it seems like the overwhelming majority of HD enthusiasts who are truly interested in HD becoming the norm, not the bitter ex-HDDVD supporters and "neutrals" who are on a mission to appease hurt egos by belittling the format, have been primarily concerned with top-notch audio and video treatment. I personally still support the same philosophy I followed during the war: solid audio/video treatment is what is important to me. Everything else, interactivity, extras, etc is unimportant and pointless if the above two categories aren't handled adequately. Seeing how people react to Warner's audio mishaps I think that this a truer than ever observation that applies to the market we wish to build.

Agreed. But you fail to point the fact that DVD did not have a direct competitor (DIVX was not it). You also continue to believe that the consumer did not choose. Finally, you also believe that extended neutrality would have benefited the consumer. On the above two points I disagree with you. In fact, as I noted earlier to you Paramount simply delayed the inevitable. One of the key reasons DVD succeeded was because there was a united family of distribs willing to support the format. I thought and I still believe that together with the unified hardware support Blu-ray boasted it was the format to bet on. Obviously, your neutrality stance on the issue suggests that you disagree.

Look, it just so happens that the overwhelming majority of the people who insist that Warner took a payoff and the consumer did not win happen to be ex-HDDVD supporters. I am sorry to say it but on this forum alone we have argued a number of times why Warner went Blu. For many it is obvious why - it unified the market. Yet, the only obvious for the HDDVD camp fact is that Warner took a payoff and the consumer lost. This is a very illogical stance to say the least which effectively contradicts the fact that the BDA beat Toshiba in marketing and promotion and secured better sales. They also secured a better consumer base via the PS3 (which is definitely paying off as we are on track to witness 2 million $ sellers, something it took DVD a long time to achieve. And yes, Blu-ray has been on its own for less than yer, with all of the majors behind for an ever shorter period of time. These are very important details the critics fail to mention, let alone compare to SDVD). Plain and simple there were more Blu-ray potential customers than there were HDDVD customers and regardless of the price cuts Toshiba initiated the red camp never managed to compete adequately.

I am unsure about your reference.
I understand. This being said, Blu-ray is indeed the only game in town now and for anyone who claims to be interested in the advancement of HD Blu-ray is the format to support. Plain and simple there is one horse to bet on.

Pro-B

The problem is there is no alternative for the hi def aficionado so even if you think Blu-ray is on shaky legs, Blu-ray is the only option to get full hi-def right now.

Agreed I remember the end of August of 2000 is when Best Buy started putting out a lot of new dvd's at 15.99. I remember Braveheart being one of the first.

A brand-spankin new Super Target here has electronics in the back. I've seen it in the front next to the doors at other Supers, though.

Well, I'd tell you what. I agree with you, there are items that will be moved, but for Walmart these two items would be CDs and DVD:

http://homemediamagazine.com/high-de...-blu-ray-13819
Pro-B

Well clearly that's it people. Wal-mart has taken a turn to kill DVD and CD by promoting Blu-ray. We all know how well that went last year for HD DVD.

Of course the whole article is talking about the demise of CD's, you just cherry-picked that they added Blu-ray to the mix along with videogames and other consumer electronics. Guess we'll know soon enough if Blu-ray is a success or not. 2 more months left of Q4! Can't wait to see if they hit their 1 Billion dollar goal for the year.

Wal-Mart's music selection is absolute shit. In all of the Wal-Mart's near me, it's about 1/3 country-western, 1/3 latin, and 1/3 everything else. And they won't sell PA CDs, so there's an incentive to avoid them for music needs. (No self-respecting metalhead is going to buy and "amended" copy of Slipknot's new album there.)

No self-respecting metalhead would buy that album to begin with.. Hahaha

But honestly it's not horrible, because if the vulgarities are not clear, they don't amend the CD's. I've bought Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth and Devildriver with no amendments on them. It's not THAT terrible.

It is a step in a direction some here thought would be reversed if we were to put Target in the mix. It is pretty obvious the market is moving in a different direction.

I must be missing the obvious parallel here. HDDVD never had the type of exposure Blu-ray is currently enjoying at Walmarts around the country. And this exposure is getting even bigger according to the report above.

I find the fact that DVD's exposure would be reduced and Blu-ray's presence increased notable. Only because a lot here are convinced that the 5$ bins are a key factor in Walmart and the studios' portfolio. These new developments seem to suggest otherwise. Feel free to disagree.

There is no need to guess. There have been multiple sources, including the latest Variety article posted on this forum, showing that these estimates are adjusted due to the economic crisis. With other words, you could expect the CEOs to announce that Blu-ray is doing quite well if they secure the two million $ sellers. And I personally believe that this is indeed more than likely.

Pro-B

Careful, you will be branded with open-minded thinking like that.

Great point. I think people (here) come down mostly in one of two camps:

Those that are OK with BD being an enthusiast format

and

Those who believe that BD will supplant DVD.

You can be a BD supporter and not believe it will ever be more than an enthusiast's format, contrary to what some are preaching.

So October's weekly average was 19 million, with Iron Man, TIH and KOTCS.

Let's see if they can hit 12 million in November. I doubt it.

?

October
week 1: $26.84 mil
week 2: $14.37 mil
week 3: $17.94 mil
week 4: $17.71 mill

total: $76.86 million

Sorry, my bad. Meant to say average week. Will edit.

It's almost too cute.

Actually that article that Pro B posted about Wal Mart seems to support the idea that retailers are getting on board with digital delivery, while "packaged media" is slowly on its way out.

If you strip away the analyst quote and just look at what the actual Wal Mart exec says:

Last time I checked, Blu Ray discs still only contain movies. It seems from the quote that video games are definitely getting an expansion.

I was hoping someone else would point that out along with
I guess that only goes to help prove that Downloads are on their way!

So because music isn't selling very well, they're cutting down the size of that section and adding everything else that is in the department. Therefore BR is winning?

The article also doesn't say that BR is replacing DVD
There's concerts also.

Downloads have been here for awhile and are only going to increase by the end of the year, including increased HD downloads. Just because the audio may not be uncompressed, doesn't mean most people care.

If BR were to truly die off, we aren't going to hear from the industry first about what's happening, we're going to hear it from articles like the ones we've seen. Saying they don't count because you don't care what some guppy said doesn't change the world.

Can anyone name some other products that have had lots of articles saying the product is dying or is a failure and then it came back to win the hearts and minds of Americans? I'm genuinely asking this because I can't think of one off the top of my head. I asked pro-b before but I just got one of those long replies that didn't say much and nobody else said anything. Anyone?