How long until blu-ray is outdated?
06-08-08 | 01:50 PM
#101
Suspended
Originally Posted by B5Erik
Standard DVD's look like crap on a lot of HDTV's. Blu Rays look incredible. People will see that.
You can't possibly mean that, right? A standard DVD with an upconverting player looks pretty damn good to most people hence the lackluster Blu-ray sales. How many people here at DVDTalk refuse to buy into Blu-ray because upconvertered DVD is good enough? Many of them were early adopters of DVD and see no need to spend $300-$700 for a BD player and then another $20-$35 to rebuy their favorite catalog titles (sans bonus features for many) in a Blue case.
06-08-08 | 01:59 PM
#102
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
You can't possibly mean that, right? A standard DVD with an upconverting player looks pretty damn good to most people hence the lackluster Blu-ray sales. How many people here at DVDTalk refuse to buy into Blu-ray because upconvertered DVD is good enough? Many of them were early adopters of DVD and see no need to spend $300-$700 for a BD player and then another $20-$35 to rebuy their favorite catalog titles (sans bonus features for many) in a Blue case.
Not everyone who buys a new HDTV is going to buy an upconverting player when they are being encouraged by the sales rep to buy the Blu Ray player instead to get real HD on their HDTV.
And I was one of the people holding out against Blu Ray - until I actually compared Blu Ray to DVD. DVD is not good enough, not for me, anyway.
06-08-08 | 01:59 PM
#103
Originally Posted by Draven
Really? I'll give you audio/video (not by much though, most people can't tell much of a difference) but "a lot more" interactivity? I wholeheartedly disagree. Any examples?
How many dvd to BD comparisons have you made between titles regarding audio and video?
There is a DAY and NIGHT difference on many, many titles. The latest being There Will Be Blood. I can say that because I have watched the dvd and BD. The dvd is full of compression artifacts and has a completely lifeless color palette. The BD is easily superior. Not only is the image artifact free and crystal clear, but the colors are not washed out, as they are on dvd. It gets us as close to Paul Thomas Anderson's vision as possible.
Regarding interactivity, dvd cannot produce true picture-in-picture features, nor can it offer up online interactivity. Read up on the upcoming Sleeping Beauty BD.
Since dvd can only hold a puny 9 gb of information, it is severely limited in what it can offer.
Oh, you wanted examples of titles with interactivity: Rambo, V for Vendetta, Untraceable, Saw IV, 3:10 to Yuma, Resident Evil: Extinction, Sunshine, Pan's Labyrinth, and others. Once more BD Live players are introduced, we'll be seeing more and more features added. Batman Begins, The Mummy, The Mummy Returns, Vantage Point, Men in Black, Shrek the Third, Transformers, and other upcoming titles will also have interactive features.
What is disturbing to me is the fact that we have fans of movies who don't want to see their films with the best audio and video presentation available. Why is that? Are you a true movie fan?
If cost is the reason, that's fine. But simply saying you'd rather not see a movie as close to the director's intent as possible, that is really strange. To choose severely compressed video over high definition video is disturbing. To choose dolby digital 5.1 over LOSSLESS audio is disturbing.
06-08-08 | 02:01 PM
#104
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Draven
What does the digital conversion have to do with hi-def movies?
Most TV's sold now are HDTV's. DVD is not HD, Blu Ray is HD.
Resistance is futile.
06-08-08 | 02:02 PM
#105
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Unfortunately DVD was just an intermediate format that just happened to become a phenomenon. HDTVs have been around for as long as DVDs, but it just happened that there were no kinds of physical medium that could hold a Hi-Def movie at the time. Step in the DVD.
Blu Ray is the heir apparent and will eventually just transition to the main format. Prices will come down and players and discs will become more available and viable. Eventually it will get to a point where it won't make sense to buy DVD when you can have a better experience for a small amount more. (I would argue for a lot of people that is already the case, and it's only gaining steam).
If anything I believe VOD will be the death of renting. Instead of renting you will just download for a fee. That's already happening. Ownership will continue to be the realm of physical media though.
For me, I don't rent movies and will only download if they are offered for free through Comcast. Otherwise I will buy a movie I really like, or wait for it to come on HBO if I don't care that much about it.
Blu Ray is the heir apparent and will eventually just transition to the main format. Prices will come down and players and discs will become more available and viable. Eventually it will get to a point where it won't make sense to buy DVD when you can have a better experience for a small amount more. (I would argue for a lot of people that is already the case, and it's only gaining steam).
If anything I believe VOD will be the death of renting. Instead of renting you will just download for a fee. That's already happening. Ownership will continue to be the realm of physical media though.
For me, I don't rent movies and will only download if they are offered for free through Comcast. Otherwise I will buy a movie I really like, or wait for it to come on HBO if I don't care that much about it.
06-08-08 | 02:03 PM
#106
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
So, basically VOD will complement physical disc content. Which is more realistic.
But, imo, it will not replace discs.
06-08-08 | 02:11 PM
#108
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Most people can't tell the difference between BD and dvd video? Really? Where did you conduct your polling?
What is disturbing to me is the fact that we have fans of movies who don't want to see their films with the best audio and video presentation available. Why is that? Are you a true movie fan?
If cost is the reason, that's fine. But simply saying you'd rather not see a movie as close to the director's intent as possible, that is really strange. To choose severely compressed video over high definition video is disturbing. To choose dolby digital 5.1 over LOSSLESS audio is disturbing.
I love HD content. Pretty much everything I watch is in HD if it can be. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to how abnormal that is.
06-08-08 | 02:14 PM
#109
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
DVD was the perfect storm. It hit at a time when the economy was good, it offered a paradigm shift in the playback and availability of films, and, most importantly IMO, it had no other delivery methods impeding its way.
BD does not have any of these luxuries. Just because DVD was successful does not necessarily mean that BD will follow suit.
BD does not have any of these luxuries. Just because DVD was successful does not necessarily mean that BD will follow suit.
BD disc sales are going up. If they weren't, then I would be worried. But they are increasing. And I believe one of Grubert's old posts had showed that they are close to mirroring DVD disc sales during the same time period of their life cycle. I believe year 3 is when DVD jumped to about 19 million discs sold, and that gave it the green light for mass adoption. BD is predicted to selling 15 million discs this year.
From what I've been reading, 2009 is the big push year. Being a huge movie fan, I am hoping it really takes off next year. Unfortunately, we do have members cheering for failure, which I will never understand. And we even have some who are demanding it meet high expectations right now, even though it's only June '08.
I think we need to see how BD can do with a Christmas all to itself and see if they get a big bump into the crucial 2009 year.
06-08-08 | 02:16 PM
#110
Originally Posted by Draven
People like us aren't going to determine if the format will take over DVD. Few people care about these things. They want easy and cheap, and Blu Ray is neither.
Regarding DVD being "easy and cheap", it was not so during its first 2 years of the format. Discs had retail prices of $29.99 - $34.99 and players were still over $200. Don't fall into the trap of comparing BD in year 2 vs DVD in year 11. That happens too often in this forum.
My reference about those not wanting the best video/audio quality was just me venting in general.
Last edited by Mr. Cinema; 06-08-08 at 02:19 PM.
06-08-08 | 02:28 PM
#112
Suspended
Originally Posted by B5Erik
Hmmmm... The broadcast TV industry along with TV manufacturers are using the digital conversion to also convert to HD.
Most TV's sold now are HDTV's. DVD is not HD, Blu Ray is HD.
Resistance is futile.
Most TV's sold now are HDTV's. DVD is not HD, Blu Ray is HD.
Resistance is futile.
Wow.
06-08-08 | 02:48 PM
#113
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
What is difficult about BD?
06-08-08 | 03:28 PM
#114
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by Draven
I suppose you could hook a Playstation 3 up with the included composite cables to a 19-inch TV, but most recommend a much more complicated setup.
06-08-08 | 03:30 PM
#115
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
Apparently it will force those 1% of people that are still using analog connections to go out and buy a HDTV which would then mean a guaranteed Blu-ray disc player purchase as well as 100 movies.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25749-4-report-analog
06-08-08 | 04:58 PM
#116
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
What is difficult about BD?...
• Firmware updates
• HDMI handshake issues
• Older players can't play certain features on newer discs; Profile 1.0 versus 1.1 versus 2.0
• Audio options: Bitstream? Not if one doesn't have an HDMI 1.3 receiver with decoding. And even if one does, what about the secondary audio tracks? Nope. Doesn't work. Lossless? Not if one uses the S/PDIF optical/coax connection. Analog? Not if the player can't decode the lossless codecs, even if it does have analog outputs, which many players don't. And just what IS the difference between DD, DTS, DD+, PCM, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD HR, and DTS-HD MA?
• Video options: 720p, 768p, 480i, 480p, 1080i, 1080p, 1080p/24
• Upscaling of DVDs is constrained over component. And what's the difference between component and HDMI anyway?
• How come my player won't remember where I stopped the disc when I start it up again like my DVD player did?
Yeah, this stuff is really simple... for you and me and the rest of us who hang out here. For others though, it's more like this:
[J6P] WTF?! I just want to watch a damn movie![/J6P]
Last edited by lizard; 06-08-08 at 05:02 PM.
06-08-08 | 06:07 PM
#117
A few answers to some of your questions.
I agree, most people don't give a crap about the different audio formats and could care less what they are. In fact, I'd even bet with all these audio formats and cute names, most consumers couldn't tell the difference between a DD 5.1 mix and a DTS-MA mix. Reason? The movie itself.
HDMI delivers the same video quality as Component, only it adds audio cables as well, into one nice "convenient" package. Of course, this convenient package was created to control consumer viewing, and to force paying consumers to spend more money on hardware.
Resume play is an issue because of the disc itself. Some Blu-ray players support resume play on some discs. So, it's a double obstacle. You have to find the right Blu-ray player, and even if you do, only certain discs allow resume play.
I agree, most people don't give a crap about the different audio formats and could care less what they are. In fact, I'd even bet with all these audio formats and cute names, most consumers couldn't tell the difference between a DD 5.1 mix and a DTS-MA mix. Reason? The movie itself.
HDMI delivers the same video quality as Component, only it adds audio cables as well, into one nice "convenient" package. Of course, this convenient package was created to control consumer viewing, and to force paying consumers to spend more money on hardware.
Resume play is an issue because of the disc itself. Some Blu-ray players support resume play on some discs. So, it's a double obstacle. You have to find the right Blu-ray player, and even if you do, only certain discs allow resume play.
06-08-08 | 06:14 PM
#118
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From: A far green country
Originally Posted by Jay G.
I have never, ever heard of a content provider having the ability to revoke past licensed purchases, even when the content switched hands or the distributor, (like iTunes) loses distribution rights. This simply does not and will not happen. Once you own it, you own it. The problem of licensing only come up currently if you lose the content or the license info due to hardware or software failure.
Originally Posted by Jay G.
Good point, although you can replace the word "VOD" with "DVD" or "Blu-ray" and it's essentially the same: if the disc you purchased eventually fails to play anymore, which can and does happen in numerous documented cases, you don't get that content back without repurchasing it. At least with downloaded content, the content providers typically allow the making of backup copies.
I think it is far too soon in the life of VOD/downloads to say what is "typical". There aren't enough players, and the customer base is far too small to be able to say how the various services will look in five years. The one thing that I think it is safe to assume is that it won't be very similar to the music download model.
06-08-08 | 07:10 PM
#119
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by lizard
[J6P] WTF?! I just want to watch a damn movie![/J6P]
Stuff like this probably guarantees that BD never reaches the success level DVD has achieved.
06-08-08 | 07:16 PM
#120
Yep. Which is why I preferred HD DVD. 
In any case, I'd say Blu-ray will eventually get its kinks worked out within a year as long as more different profiles aren't made in such as small timeframe, and the Blu-ray Forum or whoever they are, can get their standards realized instead of looking like a dumb blonde who can't chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.
In any case, I'd say Blu-ray will eventually get its kinks worked out within a year as long as more different profiles aren't made in such as small timeframe, and the Blu-ray Forum or whoever they are, can get their standards realized instead of looking like a dumb blonde who can't chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.
06-08-08 | 07:58 PM
#121
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Netflix: DVD business could peak in 5 to 10 years
Netflix's online DVD rental business could peak in five to 10 years, CEO Reed Hastings told investors Wednesday.
"Everybody peaks sometime," Hastings said in a brief interview. But "the DVD is a strong eco-system and Blu-ray is going to make it stronger."
The Los Gatos company expects eventually to shift its emphasis to streaming television shows and movies online.Last week, for instance, Roku, a startup, introduced a $99 set-top box that transfers video to the television, one of four expected Netflix-enabled set-top boxes to be introduced this year and next. Executives said they also hope the Netflix service will be incorporated into future game consoles, Internet-enabled televisions and high-definition DVD players.
Right now, Netflix offers about 10,000 titles online -- most of them older and independent films, and none so far in high-definition -- and said it hopes that studios will soon clear the rights to add more films to the mix.
But it added that it believes its model to offer combined online DVD rentals and a streaming service for a monthly fee will help pave the way as it competes against the likes of Apple, Amazon, YouTube and other Web sites and services.
Netflix is distinguishing itself by not depending on advertisements or fees to download the shows and films, executives said. Consumers also don't have to watch the videos during a limited time period.
Netflix said it could reach as many as 20 million subscribers through streaming. But it emphasized that it doesn't plan to introduce a stand-alone streaming service any time soon -- "We're a long way before we reach that point in time," said Netflix chief financial officer Barry McCarthy -- and that DVDs allow it to offer a full library.
Separately, Netflix executives also said that it expects to offer online streaming to Intel-based Mac computers this year. Currently, it is only available for Windows PCs.
And though it currently does not charge extra for rentals of next-generation Blu-ray DVDs, it is testing different prices for its high-definition offerings.
Netflix's online DVD rental business could peak in five to 10 years, CEO Reed Hastings told investors Wednesday.
"Everybody peaks sometime," Hastings said in a brief interview. But "the DVD is a strong eco-system and Blu-ray is going to make it stronger."
The Los Gatos company expects eventually to shift its emphasis to streaming television shows and movies online.Last week, for instance, Roku, a startup, introduced a $99 set-top box that transfers video to the television, one of four expected Netflix-enabled set-top boxes to be introduced this year and next. Executives said they also hope the Netflix service will be incorporated into future game consoles, Internet-enabled televisions and high-definition DVD players.
Right now, Netflix offers about 10,000 titles online -- most of them older and independent films, and none so far in high-definition -- and said it hopes that studios will soon clear the rights to add more films to the mix.
But it added that it believes its model to offer combined online DVD rentals and a streaming service for a monthly fee will help pave the way as it competes against the likes of Apple, Amazon, YouTube and other Web sites and services.
Netflix is distinguishing itself by not depending on advertisements or fees to download the shows and films, executives said. Consumers also don't have to watch the videos during a limited time period.
Netflix said it could reach as many as 20 million subscribers through streaming. But it emphasized that it doesn't plan to introduce a stand-alone streaming service any time soon -- "We're a long way before we reach that point in time," said Netflix chief financial officer Barry McCarthy -- and that DVDs allow it to offer a full library.
Separately, Netflix executives also said that it expects to offer online streaming to Intel-based Mac computers this year. Currently, it is only available for Windows PCs.
And though it currently does not charge extra for rentals of next-generation Blu-ray DVDs, it is testing different prices for its high-definition offerings.
I don't think downloads will ever overtake DVDs but they will be the death of Blu-ray, because Blu-ray is already niche as it is.
06-08-08 | 08:36 PM
#122
I didn't post that. In any case, have DVDs really peaked? The last 3 or so years we've seen prices drop, while more individuals start their DVD collections at younger ages. Hell, I think the first 10 years of DVD made the foundation for the next 10 years of DVD to really take off at low prices, allowing for more discs to be owned per individual.
06-08-08 | 08:37 PM
#123
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by RoboDad
We've never heard of it, be cause VOD is still in its infancy. Distributor licenses for films have been revoked or renegotiated when studios have sold content . Not necessarily immediately, but through other means. It happens. And with VOD, it will continue to happen. Only now it can happen with a license you or I purchase.
06-09-08 | 05:59 AM
#124
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Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt
I don't think downloads will ever overtake DVDs but they will be the death of Blu-ray, because Blu-ray is already niche as it is.
06-09-08 | 07:40 AM
#125
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
DVD was also not in a format war. And please don't say Divx was real competition.
BD disc sales are going up. If they weren't, then I would be worried. But they are increasing. And I believe one of Grubert's old posts had showed that they are close to mirroring DVD disc sales during the same time period of their life cycle. I believe year 3 is when DVD jumped to about 19 million discs sold, and that gave it the green light for mass adoption. BD is predicted to selling 15 million discs this year.
From what I've been reading, 2009 is the big push year. Being a huge movie fan, I am hoping it really takes off next year. Unfortunately, we do have members cheering for failure, which I will never understand. And we even have some who are demanding it meet high expectations right now, even though it's only June '08.
I think we need to see how BD can do with a Christmas all to itself and see if they get a big bump into the crucial 2009 year.
BD disc sales are going up. If they weren't, then I would be worried. But they are increasing. And I believe one of Grubert's old posts had showed that they are close to mirroring DVD disc sales during the same time period of their life cycle. I believe year 3 is when DVD jumped to about 19 million discs sold, and that gave it the green light for mass adoption. BD is predicted to selling 15 million discs this year.
From what I've been reading, 2009 is the big push year. Being a huge movie fan, I am hoping it really takes off next year. Unfortunately, we do have members cheering for failure, which I will never understand. And we even have some who are demanding it meet high expectations right now, even though it's only June '08.
I think we need to see how BD can do with a Christmas all to itself and see if they get a big bump into the crucial 2009 year.
Is anyone surprised that BD is tracking similar to DVD in its early years? We are talking about the same early adopters that got into DVD in its inception phase.
What some are questioning is BDs ability to make the jump to the "next level" of consumer acceptance. Just because DVD sold 10M copies in two years and so did BD does not mean that in 10 years BD sales will be where DVD sales are.
Or it could be.
Time will tell, but there are some that talk like BD is already this rousing success, but it isn't. Yet.