The easiest way to get the product in the consumer's hands...is competitive pricing and fewer "we know what's best for you" campaigns.

You can talk HD all you want, but in the end, if the consumer is debating buying one Blu-ray for $25 versus 5 of their favorite movies for the same price, you're gonna have a difficult sell ahead of you. Which is why a marketing campaign of "replacing your DVD collection and cable TV" is a retarded idea.

HD should be sold as a complimentary product, offering several times the quality of DVD, and only requires a few more dollars. As usual, the marketing of Blu-ray is aggressive, telling the consumer they are the only one for them, and anything else is...wrong.

If Blu-ray supporters are also going to try and sell Blu-ray as better than cable, this will be another interesting observation as time goes on. While it is true in most cases...it's not practical. And practical my friends, will sell a shitload more widgets than better. And speaking of Wal-Mart, it didn't become what it is because it was selling the best products around. It became popular and powerful because they sold practicality at competitive prices.

Let's see. Your DVD player is not for you because it's just not the best definition available. You must have Blu-ray. Oh, your cable TV? Yeah, well you shouldn't have that either. You need Blu-ray. Have dish? You're not getting the best quality, either. You need Blu-ray.

Fighting another HD format was easy because you were fighting the same group of people in a vacuum product sector. Don't expect the same results in the real world.

Btw, if HD DVD was conducting this same kind of campaign, I'd be posting the same thing.

I certainly look forward to starting a Blu-ray collection around the end of this year when the newer Blu-ray players are out. However, if we have too much hype, the consumer is going to avoid it.

^^
Your entire lamentation above is predicated on the assumption that Blu-Ray will be an expensive product unsupported by the industry in a manner that allowed SDVD to convincingly outdo VHS...in a foreseeable future.

All recent statements by the relevant parties published in the industry tabloids reveal a different trend.

Ciao,
Pro-B

No it is predicated on that it IS an expensive product.

Great post, Polizei. There is NO WAY, EVER that BD is overtaking cable/sat. Never ever EVER. Cable gives way more than feature films. This is a silly "battle" to fight. Not even DVD is as ubiquitous as cable/sat, and I know DVD, and BD, you're no DVD.

Bring the prices down NOW. Their chance at being more than niche slips away more each day that passes.

Relevant parties? Relevant parties, like studios and CE companies, state that "X is the future" whatever they want to pump their current X product. When product Y is ready to go, they will pump product Y as the future.

Just for example, some of the relevant parties, mostly studios, were pimping HD DVD until the day they withdrew support.

The closest a corporate party came to the truth is when Howard Stringer stated the reality of Blu Ray - they still had a long way to go - a few months ago, and he was blasted by pro-Blu Ray people as gutless or spineless or whatever.

Neither DVD, Cable nor Satellite can deliver HD media like Blu-Ray or HD-Dvd for that matter. Anyone with half a brain knows that the quality is improved by the product being provided via software rather than signals being broadcast. If the Blu-Ray group believes that Blu-Ray provides the best HD and can back it up, which they can, then what else can you say? Too many people take this stuff personal.

Although watching movies broadcast on tv is practical, and a shitload of people still do it, there are still many people who like to purchase their movies. If you look back at the evolution of electronics the general public follows along and it does take time. As more and more people buy HD capable sets they will want HD product to go with it. Would we be downsizing the importance of HD media had the pendelum swung the other way?

Blu-ray and HD DVD provide better picture, sure. However, Blu-ray is also $400 while a DVD player is $30. A catalog title movie on DVD is $5-$10, while the Blu-ray is $20-$35. That same $5-$10 DVD can play in that $30 DVD player, your DVD player in the car, your portable DVD player, can be ripped onto your iPod, or loaned out to Grandma or a neighbor. You can't say the same for Blu-ray.

The BDA can put up as many ads as they want on how great Blu-ray is, but if the pricing is not there, and consumers don't buy, it simply won't matter. They need to drop catalog titles to where they will be on par, or $5 more then the SD counterpart. Blu-ray players need to be in the sub $300 range TODAY, and sub $200 in summer. They need to release films people actually care about and want to buy. Was anyone going nuts for GI Jane? No. Cat People? No. They need Gladiator, Titanic, Indiana Jones...movies people will go out and buy a Blu-ray player just to watch. I guess we'll see in the coming months what the BDA decides to do as Sony, Disney and Fox already released a ton of great, recent movies (Spider-Man, Die Hard, POTC) without a huge dent.

I'd love to see the software prices come down, but I don't believe the BDA can profit from kamikaze player pricing anymore than Toshiba did.

The player is a one time purchase - I think people can handle that. Even better if they get a free entry-level player with a new HDTV.

Paying $30 for new titles and $20 for catalog is something the casual movie collector or J6P won't do too much though IMO, especially with the way the economy is right now. I do it because I love movies, but I recognize I am in the minority.

You make some good arguments as to why Blu-ray isn't "practical", but it doesn't mean that BD can't get portable players out on the market. You can rip a BD movie to your iPod (once the disc drive for Blu-ray becomes available), and just because it's not called DVD, doesn't mean you can't borrow your disc to your family or friends.

The convenience of Blu-ray is a step back from DVD, but DVD "convenience" wasn't an overnight thing. If the consumers give Blu-ray a change and have patience, Blu-ray will become convenient as well.

We defininitely have more consumers buying HDTV sets. However, what's the first and most common upgrade the consumer will act upon when they upgrade their television. Their cable TV. And it will be a simple call to the cable company, saying, "Yeah, I'd like to upgrade to your HD service with that promotion. I just got a HDTV."

Compare that convenient upgrade with going out and buying a $300 player, and $15-$25 discs per title. You're looking at a minimum $500 investment if you want a good player and a few titles to occupy your HD craving versus taking advantage of a more-than-likely 6-month promotion which will certainly look better than a $500 bill at the get go.

You and I know HD cable is inferior in almost all aspects--but it's able to be transmitted to each and every home with little interruption. HD Net and Discovery offer the best quality so far which are just about comparible to an HD disc. Add a few others like Mojo and so on, but many channels do not offer true HD quality.

However, the typical consumer won't be that picky. Some will, but most won't. In most cases, the HDTV will be so much better than their older CRT (the colors more vibrant, a higher degree of sharpness, higher contrast and brightness), the consumer will be thinking HD is the reason for their awesome picture, when a lot of it, will be their new television. So, broadcasts from stations like TNT (the king of HD Shit) will look "great" to the unknowning consumer because of the newly-viewed quality from the HDTV.

And as an aside, since Blu-ray is now the only leading HD format, we're going to have competitors marketing more DVD upsampling players as well. Hek, even Toshiba's GM mentioned it in a little-known discussion a while back after just announcing his company's withdraw from HD DVD. So, we might see Toshiba making XA2-like upsamplers which have some high quality chips in them, saying you don't necessarily need HD. This would be absolutely wacked, because the king of upsampling, Oppo, is going to be releasing a Blu-ray product line. Weird.

So, from my perspective, we really need some price points which will get the consumers atttention. All the marketing we see being planned will have an innocuous affect if the HD industry can't back it up with an attractive price point. We can have all the HD Cream Cheese marketing campaigns with singing angels and giddy flapping wings, proclaiming Blu-ray is the only choice, but it will have to be backed up by an attractive price.

A typical consumer knows a BMW and Mercedes are some of the best cars made, but do we have typical consumers running out in herds, buying them? No. Why? Price. Is it no wonder why BMW has released the "1" series and Mercedes have created more "affordable" lines of cars? Consumers will know eventually what's better, but whether they will take the next step and commit to a different format, is going to require some basic competitive pricing structures.

No, it is not. As of this very moment the pricing is exactly where it needs to be. The parties involved with the manufacturing of BR machines need to have enough business left so they could stay committed to it, and they have said so themselves. As the market expands then prices will come down adequately. Suicide pricing as the one Toshiba introduced isn’t favored by the manufacturers for a reason. And the reason is long-term market viability. If you can not afford a BR player now then you shouldn’t buy one, it is too expensive for you, as will be software. The rest of your post has nothing to do with current trends: DVDTIMES.UK has the answer why.

Yes, relevant parties - - those who manufacture and those who promote BR. A number of new machines are coming on the market (from low-end Funai to ultra high-end Goldmund SS) as are a number of studios now part of the Blu-family. Smaller and independent distribs together with major companies are now committed to the format. The end of the war did not push studios away from HDM it brought them together. And no, the future isn’t all gloom and doom as some like to claim it would be using generic terms. Specifically to your “relevant” remark there is nothing else to add other than state that the “pimping” you talk about is just as easily addressable with the “missing in action” Weinstein.

Finally, the only “argument” which the pessimists have been putting up lately is summed up by now coupled with the mandatory pricing. Unfortunately for them now isn’t where the distribs and manufacturers’ plans begin and end. Instant gratification may be the key word for many early adopters but clearly it isn’t what even those who were “committed” to HDDVD see as crucial for the market. If I may add, there is a reason why!!

Ciao,
Pro-B

In addition, that new flat panel is, for many, the first time they will be experiencing progressive scan and anamorphic enhancement (assuming they can get the player set up properly and use the proper connections). So it will be a bigger jump for them.

In the end though, I'm confident that BD will eventually be a mainstream product, even if it doesn't overtake DVD.

So now anyone with anything less than a knob sucking view of BD is a "pessimist." You are very adept at compartmentalizing anyone who does not agree with you. Whatever.

The idea that BD will kill DVD and cable, even at current prices, is not a realistic notion.

In hope you have the balls to stay around and back up this stuff in a few years, but you will probably exile yourself again when it becomes clear that you are wrong.

Mod Note: Don't make us close yet another thread because of this stupid bickering. I think all three of the mods are very close to suspending several of the members who regularly post here. That would not be fun for any of us, or you.

Who said Blu-ray was supposed to kill cable? It is my understanding that this hi-def format is merely the next evolution in video. Evolution, not revolution. Blu-ray may supplant regular DVDs for some people. I am sure the hope of some is that it supplants it for most people.

FEB. 29 | Having knocked down HD DVD, Blu-ray Disc supporters now are positioning their advanced format as the one to beat standard DVD, cable and satellite for high quality video delivery.

Posted by Pro-B. Click the previous page.

No one said it. The quote from Pro B ended with "for high quality video delivery",
which at the present time it certainly does in most, if not all, instances.

So customers should settle for a cheap "upconvert" players and continue adding SD-DVDs to their library ?

:hscratch:

Instant gratification is the key word for every consumer in today's market.

:hump:

New Line Announces The Orphanage for Blu-ray
Posted February 29, 2008 01:49 PM by Josh

New Line Home Entertainment has announced that they will bring the Guillermo Del Toro produced film 'The Orphanage' to Blu-ray on April 22nd, day-and-date with the DVD release. No specs have been announced for the title, but it will be presented in Spanish with English subtitles (similar to how 'Pan's Labyrinth', a film directed by Del Toro, was released). The only extras announced thus far will be behind the scenes featurettes.

The Orphanage, presented by Oscar-Nominee Guillermo del Toro, centers on a Laura (Belén Rueda from The Sea Inside) who purchases her beloved childhood orphanage with dreams of restoring and reopening the long abandoned facility as a place for disabled children. Once there, Laura discovers that the new environment awakens her son's imagination, but the ongoing fantasy games he plays with an invisible friend quickly turn into something more disturbing. Upon seeing her family increasingly threatened by the strange occurrences in the house, Laura looks to a group of parapsychologists for help in unraveling the mystery that has taken over the place.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1063

Definitely looking forward to this movie since Pan's Labyrinth is in my top five movies of all time.

It already beats all three of them in quality. There is no doubt about that being true. I don't think that they mean they are trying to make all three disappear just simply provide a more superior product, which they already do in comparison to those three forms of media delivery. Anyone who wants to argue that dvd, cable or even satellite can provide better HD media then knock yourself out.

Happened to be at Fry's yesterday to pick up a few of the $9.99 HD DVDs on sale (or marked down permanently), and not once, but twice within 5 minutes, I overheard people looking at the prices of the BD titles (same aisle, as the BDs were directly across from the HD DVDs), and 2 different sets of people/family looked at the prices and made note of not just the high prices ranging from $22.99-$29.99, but that the prices were going up by a couple of dollars from the last time they perused the BD offerings, and one lady said "well, they (Blu-ray) won, they can charge whatever they want now." Neither group bought a BD yesterday from Fry's. I picked up "The Untouchables" on HD DVD for $9.99 because who knows when Paramount is going to get around to releasing that title on BD (and was review to have good video quality), and the HD DVDs for Top Gun and Mission Impossible I and II were sold out at the $9.99 price point.

I think the studios will find that their price elasticity of their BD offerings is not so cheery. It'll be like Windows Vista, where Microsoft is now lowering their price on Vista, and their calculations lead them to forecast that at the lower price, their revenue stream is better with lower prices and more buyers than higher prices and less buyers. Since Vista isn't a "must-have" OS upgrade (XP is more than sufficient for the majority of PC users) just as BD isn't a "must-have" video disc upgrade (DVD is good enough for the majority of movie watchers on disc), there is a case to be made drive the prices lower on the MSRP level for BD titles. People are buying the movie, not the format, so why penalize them for supporting a format when they just want to see the film. Just because BD can offer 4x the pixel density over a DVD, it doesn't provide 4x the viewing pleasure, and shouldn't be priced accordingly. Keep BD within $5 of a DVD title's MSRP, and BD title sales will move much faster.

That's actually happening in some cases. Some titles have an MSRP of $34.95 for the 2-disc DVD and $39.95 for the BD. Sometimes it's even closer: I am Legend's MSRP for the BD is just a dollar more than for the 2-disc DVD.

The problem is that retailers discount the DVD heavily while the BD doesn't get discounted much at all, and of course some people will compare the BD price to that of the cheaper single-disc version that's under $20 the first week. I don't see the price structure changing until they can order in much greater quantity and use them as loss leaders.

Not only that, 2 Disc DVD version looks like a better value over the 1 disc Blu-ray. $1 more and it appears you are getting less extras.

Let's keep Fox out of the conversation, they are off their rocker when it comes to pricing on new releases. :) I'm talking about about getting MSRP down to $19.99 on DVD, and $24.99 or less on BD. It makes new releases priced even lower to move units. When the price difference is over $10, it's just a tough sell for BD over DVD.

That's not true at all. The Blu-ray has all of the features as the 2 disc and in some cases also includes exclusive features as well plus hi def video and audio.