My guess is the shaky knees of WB conceded to Sony but only if Sony helped them out with manufacturing, and will subsidize WB's costs for a year or so. So WB will have hardly any start-up costs. Why MIcrosoft didn't show up at that meeting is rather interesting.

It seems to me that WB is making the most money on HDM, and they were looking at exclusivity as a way to throw their weight around and get a "winner" declared so average people would finally buy into one of the formats, thus making them even more money. It didn't matter to them which one it was.

I tend to believe that Warner looked at both the business in general and the incentives before making their decision. If it is true that another studio's participation was figuring into their decision, it was probably only because the sales figures weren't strong enough to convince them to go it alone.

Also, it very annoying to see you constantly referencing some rumored dollar amounts as if they were confirmed facts. They aren't. And if they were incentives instead of cash payments (which is far more likely), then they would have a possible range in value, depending on market conditions.

The bottom line is, anybody (in this forum, at least) who was paying attention should have realized that Warner was planning on making a decision in mid-January. While that decision was most-likely influenced by sales figures, anybody who bought a player and a bunch of media for the past couple of weeks and opened them was taking a HUGE risk, either format. I advised all of my friends who were tempted into Hi Def recently by the tremendous sales to purchase and then not open. I also encouraged them to go Blu, but that's another story.

Anyway, I picked a side last December am just glad that the war seems to be winding down. I would have been happy (although not quite as happy) had HD won out. They're both good formats, but I believe the existance of both was hurting Hi Def in general. Had HD won, I would have kept my PS3 and my 40+ Blu-rays and bought an HD player and opened my Matrix trilogy (my sole "red" purchase so far).

I would not have wasted my time nor my mental well-being bitching about it here.

I suppose they did the same with the other studios and may still be. I'm sure this is a selling point they would try to get Universal and Paramount to join. They need to ramp up BD production lines though. Seems like there is a backlog when it comes to manufacturing certain discs.

It's been mentioned that HDi is easier to program than Java. I wonder if we will ever see HDi used for BD interactivity. Would the BDA allow that if it meant they would get Microsoft's support?

Right. I mean, it's very possible too that Warner was swayed by the business advantages of going Blu-ray only, and if a check or some other incentives were being dangled in front of 'em to do what they were going to do anyway...why not take it?

I agree that whatever compensation they're receiving is probably not in the form of some kind of cash outlay. I'd bank on subsidized authoring or replication.

Warner made statements they followed up on.

1. Looking at standalones sales. Check. In December Blu-Ray standlones outsold HDDVD standalones with the 99$ players included. See quote:

2. Looking at software sales. Check. Blu-Ray software outsold HDDVD software not only during the holidays but throughout the entire year.

3. Looking at both sides. Check. Warner analyzed current market developments and went as far deep into the holiday season as possible. They gave both sides a chance to prove what needed to be proved.

4. Looking at the bigger picture. Check. International trends were also analyzed.

Summation: Yes, WB looked into all of the above and saw a trend. They did not, as you suggest, take a check (source?) and make a poor decision. All things considered they are also doing it in a manner everyone on this forum criticized Paramount for not following: providing an extensive time frame for people to see upcoming changes and as much as they could adjust buying habits accordingly.

Ciao,
Pro-B

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

It took 28 pages of thread to get to the "S" word. That's gotta be a dvdtalk record.

I'm not sure why you need to use the term "shaky knees". Warner has always known that one format would be better for them (and late adopters) than two. They have always publically said that they were willing to let the market decide. Was that true? Maybe not. Maybe they just felt that choosing a side would not be a decisive enough blow against the other until now.

As to your question about Microsoft, I can only guess. Maybe they didn't think Warner going red was a decisive enough win for the cost involved. Remember, Microsoft would have probably had to spend money to push Warner a certain way. The Blu-ray camp doesn't neccesarily need to spend money. Maybe they just offer discounts on manufacturing or forgo royalty payments.

Any way, regardless of the size of the "payments" made, the deal wouldn't have happened if all parties involved didn't think that it made long term-sense for each of them.

Well, Sony had better be able to accommodate all these discs. I think all of us want a ramped up release schedule from all studios, so production capacity had better be where they say it is.

Now we get bolding. Awesome.

The analyst at Pali Research that predicted this is looking like a genius now.

Seriously, do you work there? Are you in the decision making process? How can you possibly state all of that so definitively and expect people not to call you on it???

Wow, I'm surprised BD standalones outsold HD DVD in December. I think that shows the power of their movie offerings. Spiderman and Pirates likely helped there.

Really, WB could defend their choice very easily. Although the attach rates were in HD DVDs favor, WB could tell anyone that they chose the more popular format and that it was the right decision. Which is true. BD outsold HD DVD in software every single week in 2007. And there are more BD capable players available.

I think attach rates are very important, but if I'm WB and I was worried about what my perception would be due to this decision, I can bring up those facts and figures all day long and convince people I'm not the bad guy. I'm the smart guy.

Warner Brothers has been as confused as they say consumers are/were in their press release. It was simply a matter of telling WB they would be spending less of their money for Blu-ray. WB was simply looking for someone to take them by the hand, in addition to sticking a pacifier in their mouth and a blanket in their lap, and telling them it was going to be "Ok". This would have happened the same way if MS enticed WB.

The Blu-ray camp doesn't neccesarily need to spend money. Maybe they just offer discounts on manufacturing or forgo royalty payments.

Well, but this is losing money potentially gained by providing discounts. Either way you look at it, there was money spent or money allowed to go down the hole, in order for WB to concede. It was a given "cost" which Sony execs knew would have to be absorbed.

This is why I wonder about Blu-ray titles and their pricing in the future. :)

Excellent summation Pro-B!

I can't believe you are starting up with this shit again.

No doubt. I would expect to see the HD DVD sections cut out quickly. For people that stick with HD DVD, online may be the only place to find movies in a few months.

That's what I wonder about. David Vaughn (AVS Insider) said his sources told him that some Fox titles had been bumped by Sony in the past in favor of other titles. I can't imagine they would want that to happen to their new exclusive member. With the WB decision, I'm sure expansion plans are a high priority now.

And here I thought you were actually realizing who won this war.

I noticed that as well. The same people are going "Way to go Pro-B!! "Yeah!!!" "You're the Man!!!". Ugh.

Let's see you start a self-promoting "retirement" thread.

Don't forum rules state you are banned from posting in this forum anymore? The mods allowed you to post as a "courtesy" because you were retiring.

Why don't you honor your word and leave. I know why and it aint pretty

Oh FFS, why didn't he stay "retired"!

As if we didn't see that from you on many forums.

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/ne...rmat-war.phtml

5 January 2008 17:28 GMT - The format war is over, we can all get on with our lives, buy a Blu-ray player and all be happy about it.

Well that's what looks likely to happen following the announcement from Warner Bros. that it would be ditching HD DVD support in favour of an exclusive agreement with Blu-ray.

HD DVD might have the better interactivity, might have had the cheaper player offering, but it seems that wasn't enough when it came to wooing the movie studios.

And so Toshiba, who've been singing the praises of HD DVD for over four years are left holding on to just handful of studio's still supporting the format. But for how long?

The HD DVD format might have big players like Universal, in from the beginning, Paramount and DreamWorks who recently switched, and New Line, but even these alliances now look shakey as well.

In an exclusive interview with Pocket-lint last month, Rachel Banin, product manager of the home video business group at Sony said "We understand that it was only for a set period of time. I think that if the progress of the Blu-ray format continues, Paramount will have to come back."

New Line is owned by Time Warner, who incidentally owns Warner Bros, and therefore likely to switch as well, leaving just Universal and DreamWorks out in the cold supporting the format.

Compare this against movie studios 20th Century Fox, MGM, Lionsgate, Disney, now Warner Bros and of course Sony Pictures plus hardware makers such as Dell, HP, Hitachi, LG, Samsung, and Apple and you can see why HD DVD looks set to fail.

We would love to say it's a shame, that poor Toshiba has been beaten by Sony in what has to be its first format war victory; UMD, MiniDisc, Beatmax, ATRAC anyone? But in reality consumers should be pleased that finally one format has been victorious and that Home Cinema fans can now concentrate on buying a Blu-ray player and getting on with investing in movies.

Of course if Blu-ray has won the victory and the battle, there are further consequences to consider.

What of Microsoft's Xbox 360 HD DVD drive? What of Toshiba's line of HD DVD players. Without movies to play what will become of the players and what will Toshiba do to bring High-def content to those who want it? Opt for Blu-ray? It would be an amazing move and show that the company has plenty of heart, but lets face it, its unlikely to happen.

As for Microsoft, the idea of including a HD DVD player in their console will most likely have been shelved overnight, if they even existed of course.

We will have to wait and see, but one thing for certain, we won't get a response at CES this week. The HD DVD group has cancelled its keynote speech at CES.

We will keep you posted.

Pro-B left this particular forum on his own volition because of the incessant bashing by a few in this very last thread page.