If WB ever goes Blu what makes you think they wouldnt just start releasing "Combo Blu-Ray" discs?

I don't think they even can (well, allowed to)

I think (and pray) it's not in the Blu-Ray spec.

BTW, BD sales have done just fine without combos. Why would they add them after they potentially get more market share?

I think neutral... But who knows anymore.

I voted "HD DVD Exclusivity", but "neutral" is a close second, and "Blu-Ray Exclusivity" is a far third.

Contrary to the OP's opinion, I think Warner going HD exclusive will end the war far quicker than if they were to go BD exclusive.

Assuming Warner picks a side, the focus is going to eventually go to each studio's respective back-catalog.

Universal and Paramount have very extensive catalogs.
Sony, Disney, Fox, and Lion's Gate have a fair amount of great titles, but in comparison to Uni and Para... well... there is no comparison.
MGM has a large catalog, but a significant amount of those titles belong to Warner (Wizard of Oz, etc.)
Warner, like Uni and Para, has an extensive catalog.

So...
If Warner goes BD exclusive, consumers will have to decide which format has more longevity when they get bored of day-and-date titles.
If Warner goes HD exclusive, consumers will know that HD DVD will have more to offer when they get bored of day-and-date titles.

now i see why you did what you did over my X360 rants... at this point of HD war, if you're not format neutral, you're missing a lot in the HDM world.

Sorry dude, even HD-DVD wins, the HD-DVD campers not gonna see Sony titles on HD-DVDs soon (agreed by many dvdtalkers). I'm leaning toward BD, because i like Disney, even if Disney go neutral, i'll continue to collect the new releases on BD since i started my collection that way... I jumped on the hd-dvd boat b/c i know that even if BD wins, it's gonna take a while for the hd-dvd exculsives to be released on BDs.

All this talk makes me wanna say "haha, i told you so," i don't believe the two HDM formats gonna last another year, it will be interesting in a few months indeed... Also, i can't wait to hear the so so BD exclusive going neutral :rolleyes:

It's a tough call. I believe WB will stay Neutral. However, if they decide to go their own way....preferably blu, it may be the close end of the format war. Paramount really killed it when they switched. Makes me wish I picked up shooter when I had the chance.

Combo discs are $5 more, no? Not only that, you have to be more careful not to scratch a side when taking out the disc. Well, i don't have the problem taking care of the disc, but if i have to lend it to a friend or a family member, sigh, i don't know... And the idea of combo disc is to "share" among the non-hd folks, which doesn't apply to me (or a lot of hd folks out there).

Warner Bros. has been pricing new release combos the same as the BD version. They apparently realized that the higher price was killing sales. Universal is still using combos and seems to price them at $39.99, but that's a pretty typical list price for new releases from many studios.
People said much the same thing — that the format war was about to end — a year ago, yet here we are with both formats going strong. You might be right, but I'm guessing that a year from now there will still be two formats. I agree with you that it seems unlikely that any BD only studio will go neutral anytime soon.

Believe it or not, check your local Best Buys for Shooter. I've seen a couple of Shooter BDs at my local Best Buy sitting there for months. I don't even consider picking them up for reselling since it isn't worth my time.

If you have one locally, I'd check Fry's out, they might have Shooter in Blu-ray lying around.

fitprod

No. Warner Brothers USED to charge $5 more for their HD DVD combos. They don't anymore. Now it's the same price as a Blu-Ray. Besides, Warner's is just one studio. You can't make sweeping judgments based on one studio's pricing policy. It's like me claiming Blu-Rays cost more simply because Fox charges $40 (MSRP) for catalog titles when all HD DVD studios charge $30. Or because Sony charge $50 for Spiderman 3. Taking one company's pricing and applying to the whole format is not accurate or fair.

Unfortunately, back-catalog titles do not drive sales nearly as much as new releases, especially in the HD market.

One problem with this theory. Day and date sales drive the overall sales. Back catalogs mean little. Warners does have a great catalog of titles, but it won't really matter. What will matter is who has the next big hit. People never get tired of day and date releases, becasue there's a constant flow of them.

This is exactly my perspective as well. Yes, there have been some problems. Almost all of them have been corrected with firmware. There still will be problems from time to time. It's inevitable.

But it's not like it's happening even 10% of the time. It's really minor and generally overblown, largely by those with an agenda to push in the format war. And my point about other discs having problems is that even things such as the latest Pirates movie have had issues playing. It's happening on both sides, and it seems combos get way more of the focus. Update your firmware and most of your problems will be gone. It's the rare disc that is real manufactured wrong. And it can happen on either side of the format war.

I concur. Between Fry's and Best Buy I still see many of the Paramount BD's in stock.

So by your reasoning, since I have had never had an issue with BD-Java playback or BD+, it's not a big deal? I bet it was a big deal to those who couldn't watch their Fox titles for weeks until Samsung and LG made updates.

The key difference there is combo issues arise from largely from manufacturing issues, while the vast majority of BD issues are from software incompatibility. It's much easier to plan for and fix a software issue than deal with a poorly manufactured disc.

Combos get more of the focus precisely because they are the single worst thing about HDM software right now on either format, and they deserve that focus. If combos were exclusive to Blu-Ray, I would be just as vocal about them.

There are people out there the latest firmware who have problems with combos. It is not just firmware. I went through three firmware updates on my A20 waiting for a fix to play the Matrix combos, and it never worked so I got rid of them.

You can try and insinuate I "have an agenda", but that just does your preferred format a disservice by deflecting attention from an issue that will only get worse as sales volumes increase.

Why do you think it's "rare" that a disc is "manufactured wrong"? People asked for yield rates on combos in the AVS Insiders thread and were never answered. I *suspect* the yields are pushed more on combos since they are more expensive to make than HD-30. Hence more bum discs making it into the consumer's hand.

Lets say a run of 100K combos produces 3K combos that have moderate to severe playback issues. Spread that over thousands of B&M sites and multiple online retailers, and it won't seem like a big issue. But what happens if a relative percentage like that holds if a disc sells a million copies? 30K bad combos is going to be a black eye on every release.

Why is it that the 300 combo seemed to get the most publicity at the time for being faulty? Most likely because it's one of the highest (if not the highest) selling combo to date. Increase the volume, increase the number of faulty combos.

I would think the HD DVD crowd would want these issues to go away completely rather than just deflect attention from them.

I've never had problems with a single combo either, and I only update firmware infrequently at best - every 2-3 revisions when I happen to think about it.

It sounded like most of the combo problems were resolved after the Children of Men problems (which I never had a problem with myself).

I personally am fond of combos. I'd prefer single-sided combos if they ever make them, but 2-sided are ok as well.

I didn't mean to insinuate you have agenda and I'm sorry you read it that way. What I meant by that comment is that fanboys blow something out of proportion, and it gets repeated as fact when it's not true. That has led to this perception of combos among many, when in fact its not based

Do I think problems with Blu-Ray Java or Blu-ray Plus are a big deal? No, I do not. The problems are temporary and get fixed. But problems like those do show the problems with both formats.

I realize that not all combo problems are firmware fixable. But most of them are. You mentioned Children of Men, which had a problem fixed by firmware. You mentioned the Matrix movies, which I also had a problem loading (the sequels, not the original). It has since been fixed by firmware. I'm not sure of all the problems you specifically had, but it seems a decent portion of them have been fixed. If there are really a significant number of problems left unfixed, I'm not aware of them.

And I think to some extent, I think you have to expect bugs with new formats. I've read reports of problems playing Pirates 3 and a new glitch on Resident Evil 3. I'm sure they'll be fixed as well in time. It's just the way these things are. It just seems combos are especially hated and whatever problems may come up get overly publicized and remembered, where as other problems are quickly forgotten.

I say this not because I prefer HD DVD (I don't), but because I just like to see a fair representation of what's going on. In my eyes, the way combos are represented is not truthful.

They still do, just look at Harry Potter, the newest one (a combo) cost $5 more than the other 4 (non-combos). I'm not sure why you are comparing the price to a Blu-Ray to say that they don't cost more. When we say we don't like combos because they cost more, we mean because they cost more than a non-combo title from the same studio.

New releases typically cost at least $5 more than catalog titles regardless of their combo status.

The newer one isn't $5 more because it's a combo, the older ones are $5 less because they're catalog releases. HP:OP is still less than the older WB combos like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

Guys, i didn't know WB charge the same price for the combo discs as the BD counterpart... to me, that sounds like value added for hd-dvd! Hell, that makes me want to buy WB's combo hd-dvd version even more (forget about disc scratching, anything for more at the same price is good). However, isn't that a bit "unfair" for the BD counterpart then? After all, the BD got no dvd version on the disc and it's "inferior" to the HD-DVD. So, in some sense, WB is promoting HD-DVD with the combo disc pricing scheme, no?

Again, i have no idea that WB charge the same price for combo discs...

Personally, i got nothing against combo discs... maybe the scratched part (you can never be too careful, but as long as the dvd side is scratched, i don't really care). If they are the same price, then yeah, bring on. If not, hell, i don't want it... no sir, not even if i have to pay $1 more.

WB used to charge $5 more for an HD-DVD Combo than that same title on Blu-ray. However, that changed with the latest Harry Potter movie (presumably permanently, or at least until they drop support for one or both formats.) That movie costs the same on both HDM formats.

It also appears that the price of both HDM flavors is a buck higher than the older "new release" Blu-ray version price.