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Will old TV shows eventually make it to HD?

Old 11-09-07, 08:33 PM
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Will old TV shows eventually make it to HD?

Not really being up on all of the technical stuff, is this even possible? Even though I've yet to actually switch over to HD and probably won't for at least another year, I've seriously curbed my purchasing on movies for regular DVD, except for older or indie-type stuff, just to minimize the amount of upgrading I'll have (or just be tempted) to do.

But how safe am I in buying TV on DVD? Will we ever see Seinfeld in HD? What about much older shows, like The Twilight Zone? I've been wanting to buy the complete TZ set for a while, but is there any chance of an HD release for something like that?
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Old 11-09-07, 09:21 PM
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It depends on whether it was shot on film, and if the elements are available. Seinfeld was mastered in HD for the DVD releases, and it will come eventually. Anything shot on SD video (such as many 70s-80s sitcoms and shows like The State and SNL up until a few years ago) are limited by the source and cannot be in HD.

An interesting case is South Park, which has been and still is made in SD, but since it's done on computers they can go back and re-render it for HD. They've done that for one episode on an HD DVD that was available this year.

I just hope they retain the correct aspect ratio on these shows.
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Old 11-10-07, 05:18 PM
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Seinfeld won't be on HD any time soon. Believe me.
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Old 11-10-07, 05:22 PM
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Can't any show be changed in to HD?
Its just the picture will max out at a SD picture.
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Old 11-10-07, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainRon
Seinfeld won't be on HD any time soon. Believe me.
Why should we believe you?
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Old 11-10-07, 05:31 PM
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I'd love to have shows like Sanford and Son on Blu-Ray, even if just to have fewer discs and save space. I think being able to grab entire series of SD shows in one reasonable box is very cool.
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Old 11-10-07, 11:34 PM
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Drexl is right in that it depends. However, quite a lot of shows are shot on film, and have been for a long time. The exceptions are daily/live shows, multi-camera sitcoms from the mid-70s through early 90s, game shows, documentary/reality shows, and possibly some really low-budget shows, although those were typically shot on even 16mm over video.

British shows through the 60s-70s were shot on video in the studio, with outside/location shots on film.

However, just as important as how the show was shot is how it was finished; whether the editing and/or FX were done on film or on video. With shows like Cheers, the shows were original edited on video, so remastering in HD required going back to the original film elements and re-editing the show in HD. Other shows had FX that were rendered/composited on video. In these cases, the FX will have to be recreated in HD, if it's even possible. Even if it's possible to remaster the show in HD, studios are going to have to take into consideration the cost of doing so compared to the projected revenue the new HD version will create. Some lower-profile shows may be shown to come up lacking enough of an audience to warrant remastering.

So, a lot of shows have the potential to end up in HD, but not all, and there's no real way to tell which ones will and when they will.

In regards to the original Twilight Zone, the majority of those episodes were shot and edited on film, although a few season 2 episodes were shot on SD video.

Here's a previous thread that covers some of the same ground:
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=494441
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Old 11-11-07, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Salty
Why should we believe you?
Yes, i would like to know as well... i'm holding off on the complete collection for the HD release (already got most of the seasons on the regular dvd release).
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Old 11-12-07, 06:02 AM
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Star Trek the Original Series is coming to HD-DVD/DVD combo next week, but only in new remastered/redone special effects form.
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Old 11-12-07, 06:50 AM
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Unless one HD format wins and actually replaces standard DVD's I'd have to say no. Can't see them putting out "Mr. Ed" on HD... not sure what you'd gain by doing that... sure, the old Star Trek, or even the Twilight Zone, as sci-fish titles would likely be the only ones that would drive the market for such conversion...
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Old 11-12-07, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CaptainRon
Seinfeld won't be on HD any time soon. Believe me.
Sorry, I would only believe you if your user name was Snake Plissken.

Seinfeld has a very good chance of coming to HD. But I think only the most popular shows really have a chance.
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Old 11-12-07, 03:11 PM
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Ok I'll bite, even if it does it won't be for a really really really long time. However, I will say that i THINK Sopranos will be be in a complete series HD around the same time that the complete series comes out on SD.


Doesn't anyone appreciate the fact that the way a show was filmed originally allows it to keep some of it's character?
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Old 11-12-07, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainRon
Doesn't anyone appreciate the fact that the way a show was filmed originally allows it to keep some of it's character?
The Seinfeld remastering was done at 4x3, so the composition hasn't been altered.
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Old 11-12-07, 03:23 PM
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I mean the idea of some dust and dirt. Not the Aspect.
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Old 11-12-07, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainRon
I mean the idea of some dust and dirt. Not the Aspect.
That's due to neglect of the original source material, not artistic purity. Should we not remaster pre-CD music to keep all those original pops and hisses?
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Old 11-12-07, 04:06 PM
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Here is a question.

Even though some shows cannot have any "higher defintion" than their original source in Standerd Def. Wouldn't it be possible for in HD format to give these shows a higher quality because of the disc space? I'm talking in regards to less digital noise, cleaner transfer. I know you cannot create a HD transfer from a non HD source, but wouldn't HD format give it the space for it to look better?
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Old 11-12-07, 04:06 PM
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To quote Nick Cage in The Rock "These sound better..."
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Old 11-12-07, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ScissorPuppy
Here is a question.

Even though some shows cannot have any "higher defintion" than their original source in Standerd Def. Wouldn't it be possible for in HD format to give these shows a higher quality because of the disc space? I'm talking in regards to less digital noise, cleaner transfer. I know you cannot create a HD transfer from a non HD source, but wouldn't HD format give it the space for it to look better?
The resolution is 180P. It is fixed. Just like NTSC was 480.

There could theoretically be less compression, but we have seen that is is the quality of the compression codec used coupled with the skill of the person managing the compression that results in a good looking transfer.
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Old 11-12-07, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
The resolution is 1080P. It is fixed. Just like NTSC was 480.
Actually, no. There are a few porn titles that use 720p, and of course extras are often 480i. There isn't any mandate that requires the content to be 1080p, even though it's the defacto standard.

There could theoretically be less compression, but we have seen that is is the quality of the compression codec used coupled with the skill of the person managing the compression that results in a good looking transfer.
That's true. I doubt the difference would be significant enough to make it worth getting if you already have the seasons on DVD. They could use fewer discs, but I don't think we'll see that. The music industry never used the space of DVD-Audio or SACD to put multiple albums at CD-quality on one disc.
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Old 11-12-07, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Drexl
Actually, no. There are a few porn titles that use 720p, and of course extras are often 480i. There isn't any mandate that requires the content to be 1080p, even though it's the defacto standard.



That's true. I doubt the difference would be significant enough to make it worth getting if you already have the seasons on DVD. They could use fewer discs, but I don't think we'll see that. The music industry never used the space of DVD-Audio or SACD to put multiple albums at CD-quality on one disc.
I meant that the TOP is 1080P.

I agree completely with the second point.
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Old 11-12-07, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
The resolution is 180P. It is fixed. Just like NTSC was 480.

There could theoretically be less compression, but we have seen that is is the quality of the compression codec used coupled with the skill of the person managing the compression that results in a good looking transfer.
I am aware of the original resolution being what it is and unchangable. I was thinking along the lines of what superbit claimed to be. I just figured with alot more space, a better almost "master" transfer could be given to older shows.
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Old 11-12-07, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ScissorPuppy
Even though some shows cannot have any "higher defintion" than their original source in Standerd Def. Wouldn't it be possible for in HD [disc] format to give these shows a higher quality because of the disc space?
If you put SD content on an HD disc, you wouldn't even need to increase the space the video uses, since you could just use one of the next-gen video codecs (VC-1, AVC) to gain better compression. Also, while NTSC DVD is only 480i, an HD disc could encode the show in 480p, which might cause a slight benefit.

Another advantage would be in the audio front, where the extra space of the discs could afford slightly newer codecs (DD+), larger bitrates(DTS HD), and possibly even lossless or uncompressed audio (TrueHD, DTS HD MA, PCM).

However, while it's possible, I don't think it's too likely, since any show that would be released in SD on an HD disc would get a SD DVD release anyway, and why would the studio produce two (or more) releases with the exact same content when the SD DVD could service everyone?
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Old 11-12-07, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by CaptainRon
To quote Nick Cage in The Rock "These sound better..."
He sure as hell wasn't talking about the pops and hisses when he said that.

Your point was that the scratches and dirt on film are an integral part of the viewing experience, which is wrong. Ask anyone who works in film, and the scratches and dirt are most of the time completely unwanted, but accepted as part of the price you pay for working in the medium, just like the pops and hisses on an LP are the price you pay for listening to a purely analogue medium. Even when remastering an album for a vinyl release there has always been an attempt to remove any unwanted noise. People appreciate film and vinyl despite their flaws, not because of it.

In any case, I'm not sure I see what this has to do with HD transfers, since there's nothing the precludes scratches and dirt from appearing on an HD transfer, if desired, while plenty of SD DVDs have transfers that are cleaned of wear and dirt.
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Old 11-12-07, 10:26 PM
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Another question, Isn't NSTC 525 lines of resoultion? Why wasn't dvd created with 525 lines of resolution? Or is the 480i/p and the NSTC 525 something different?
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Old 11-12-07, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ScissorPuppy
Another question, Isn't NSTC 525 lines of resoultion? Why wasn't dvd created with 525 lines of resolution? Or is the 480i/p and the NSTC 525 something different?
You're referring to scan lines. (Lines of resolution are the number of vertical lines that can be resolved on an analog display.) Although there are 525 scan lines in NTSC, some of them are used for other information like closed captioning. Only 480-483 are for visible picture information.
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