Toshiba HD-A2 model sells 90,000 over weekend
#26
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Another article:
How HD DVD Got its Groove Back
How HD DVD Got its Groove Back
ANALYSIS: Sources close to retailers indicate that Toshiba sold over 90,000 $99 HD DVD players over the weekend, and that figure only represents a portion of the retailers that participated in the frenzy.
According to Video Business, the 90,000 count includes Toshiba HD-A2 players sold at Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and Circuit City along with a few other brick and mortar outlets. But it apparently doesn't include online retailers who also participated in the price drop, such as Amazon.com.
BetaNews' own estimates placed sales at around 40,000 to 70,000 within Wal-Mart alone based on information compiled about stocks at the discount retailer's various locations around the country.
Wal-Mart's move spurred a retailer war over prices of the players, even bringing down the cost of other models as a result when HD-A2 stocks depleted. It's fairly likely that total sales of all HD DVD players eclipsed the 100,000 mark during just the past week.
Sales of the Toshiba HD-A3, the successor to the HD-A2, appeared to be equally brisk, with many retailers selling out of their stocks quickly after the older model became hard to find. At many locations, the newer player was selling for $199 - $100 off its original retail price.
Furthermore, sales of the HD-A2 alone over the past few days are nearly equivalent to total sales of the top Blu-ray player, Sony's BDP-S300, which has shipped 100,000 units since its introduction over the summer.
BetaNews has a request in with Toshiba for full sales numbers, but the company thus far has not provided specific figures.
It All Comes Down to Price
Over the weekend, BetaNews talked to several new-to-HD disc consumers and there was almost a universal reaction that price was the primary factor behind the purchases. Buying an HD DVD player, however, did not necessarily mean the door was shut to Blu-ray.
"I was waiting on the price to come down on the hardware to where i thought the return on investment was there, because I know lots of money will be spent on software once I had a player," Mike Taylor of Park City, Utah told BetaNews.
The story was the same from David Balfoort of Syracuse and David Lazerson of Cape Coral, Florida. While Lazerson remains open to Blu-ray if the price drops below $250, Balfoort says he'd only consider the opposite format if it "wins the war."
Another interesting finding of the interviews was that no one felt worried about their purchase, despite the future of high-definition discs remaining up in the air. "I'm not nervous at all about the purchase," Lazerson said, pointing to the upconversion feature of the player, which he noted alone makes it worth the $98 purchase price.
Balfoort, who already had a extensive home theater, said that an HD movie player was the last piece of the puzzle. "I generally purchase a DVD player every 12-18 months so there was no nervousness involved," he told BetaNews.
Blu-ray's Dilemma
Through these interviews, it seems clear that Sony's recent offerings of a small price cut this holiday may not be enough to counter what could be increasing momentum for HD DVD. With so many new players now in consumers' hands, it can only be expected that disc sales will increase as well.
Multiple studies show that the PlayStation 3 alone will not be enough to keep the Blu-ray format afloat. Six out of ten users aren't even aware that the device can play Blu-ray movies, and out of the remaining four, only two had actually used the player in the past month to play a disc, according to NPD Group.
In addition, a rising number of HD DVD owners will make it hard for Sony to make the case to both retailers and studios to support its format exclusively. Consumer demand will keep HD DVD on the radar of the studios who currently support it, and will give the format leverage to lure new studios in.
It is not out of the question that this past weekend's moves by Wal-Mart have in the very least extended the format war much longer than many Blu-ray supporters would have imagined, and very well could have provided the needed momentum toward a successful conclusion for those in HD DVD's camp.
"Wal-Mart doesn't have these sales for no reason, there's always a business aspect," an employee told BetaNews on Friday while customers waited in line to snap up a $99 HD DVD player. "You can fully expect that this will be the price next year; they are always ahead of the curve on that."
From Friday's action, it looks like the nation's leading retailer wants to play kingmaker. And from the results we're seeing today, it just may have.
According to Video Business, the 90,000 count includes Toshiba HD-A2 players sold at Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and Circuit City along with a few other brick and mortar outlets. But it apparently doesn't include online retailers who also participated in the price drop, such as Amazon.com.
BetaNews' own estimates placed sales at around 40,000 to 70,000 within Wal-Mart alone based on information compiled about stocks at the discount retailer's various locations around the country.
Wal-Mart's move spurred a retailer war over prices of the players, even bringing down the cost of other models as a result when HD-A2 stocks depleted. It's fairly likely that total sales of all HD DVD players eclipsed the 100,000 mark during just the past week.
Sales of the Toshiba HD-A3, the successor to the HD-A2, appeared to be equally brisk, with many retailers selling out of their stocks quickly after the older model became hard to find. At many locations, the newer player was selling for $199 - $100 off its original retail price.
Furthermore, sales of the HD-A2 alone over the past few days are nearly equivalent to total sales of the top Blu-ray player, Sony's BDP-S300, which has shipped 100,000 units since its introduction over the summer.
BetaNews has a request in with Toshiba for full sales numbers, but the company thus far has not provided specific figures.
It All Comes Down to Price
Over the weekend, BetaNews talked to several new-to-HD disc consumers and there was almost a universal reaction that price was the primary factor behind the purchases. Buying an HD DVD player, however, did not necessarily mean the door was shut to Blu-ray.
"I was waiting on the price to come down on the hardware to where i thought the return on investment was there, because I know lots of money will be spent on software once I had a player," Mike Taylor of Park City, Utah told BetaNews.
The story was the same from David Balfoort of Syracuse and David Lazerson of Cape Coral, Florida. While Lazerson remains open to Blu-ray if the price drops below $250, Balfoort says he'd only consider the opposite format if it "wins the war."
Another interesting finding of the interviews was that no one felt worried about their purchase, despite the future of high-definition discs remaining up in the air. "I'm not nervous at all about the purchase," Lazerson said, pointing to the upconversion feature of the player, which he noted alone makes it worth the $98 purchase price.
Balfoort, who already had a extensive home theater, said that an HD movie player was the last piece of the puzzle. "I generally purchase a DVD player every 12-18 months so there was no nervousness involved," he told BetaNews.
Blu-ray's Dilemma
Through these interviews, it seems clear that Sony's recent offerings of a small price cut this holiday may not be enough to counter what could be increasing momentum for HD DVD. With so many new players now in consumers' hands, it can only be expected that disc sales will increase as well.
Multiple studies show that the PlayStation 3 alone will not be enough to keep the Blu-ray format afloat. Six out of ten users aren't even aware that the device can play Blu-ray movies, and out of the remaining four, only two had actually used the player in the past month to play a disc, according to NPD Group.
In addition, a rising number of HD DVD owners will make it hard for Sony to make the case to both retailers and studios to support its format exclusively. Consumer demand will keep HD DVD on the radar of the studios who currently support it, and will give the format leverage to lure new studios in.
It is not out of the question that this past weekend's moves by Wal-Mart have in the very least extended the format war much longer than many Blu-ray supporters would have imagined, and very well could have provided the needed momentum toward a successful conclusion for those in HD DVD's camp.
"Wal-Mart doesn't have these sales for no reason, there's always a business aspect," an employee told BetaNews on Friday while customers waited in line to snap up a $99 HD DVD player. "You can fully expect that this will be the price next year; they are always ahead of the curve on that."
From Friday's action, it looks like the nation's leading retailer wants to play kingmaker. And from the results we're seeing today, it just may have.
#27
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People have been saying it for years and here we go - price is king. If Toshiba and the HD DVD folks keep these sales going through the holidays the bump BD had after last Christmas will be completely reversed this Christmas.
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Originally Posted by brianluvdvd
I never visit that site. What in the world went on that they had to shut down 5 forums??? Jeez.
#29
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I love Bill Hunt's editorial over at the bits. Basically, Toshiba is stupid for almost assuredly selling players below cost, they will never make any money, etc. Of course, no mention of the PS3 ever selling below cost ....
#30
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Originally Posted by silentbob007
Of course, no mention of the PS3 ever selling below cost ....
#31
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Great results for a 1-2 day sale. Price has always been a key factor in adoption of any technology.
Believe it or not, there were BR owners at AVS that actually argued that one of BR's advantages is that the players are more expensive, so they're perceived as being better quality.
Mkay. Stick with that mindset. It will guarantee that BR loses the format war. Low priced players of BOTH formats are in everyone's best interest.
As far as AVS shutting down the HD forums (supposedly temporarily), it's long overdue, and quite frankly the management/moderators there had to resort to that only because of their inaction and lack of a comprehensive moderation policy. The fanboy/trolling/gamer-infestation atmosphere has been building there for months and months, and pleas for management to do something about it fell on deaf ears. If they had taken a firmer hand with warnings, suspensions, and bans earlier on, it would not have degenerated to the state it has. In a nutshell, they made their bed, now sleep in it.
Believe it or not, there were BR owners at AVS that actually argued that one of BR's advantages is that the players are more expensive, so they're perceived as being better quality.
Mkay. Stick with that mindset. It will guarantee that BR loses the format war. Low priced players of BOTH formats are in everyone's best interest.
As far as AVS shutting down the HD forums (supposedly temporarily), it's long overdue, and quite frankly the management/moderators there had to resort to that only because of their inaction and lack of a comprehensive moderation policy. The fanboy/trolling/gamer-infestation atmosphere has been building there for months and months, and pleas for management to do something about it fell on deaf ears. If they had taken a firmer hand with warnings, suspensions, and bans earlier on, it would not have degenerated to the state it has. In a nutshell, they made their bed, now sleep in it.
#32
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This is great news to me. I just bought the A2 last week -- my first foray into the HD Universe -- only because it was so affordable and a low-risk purchase. Since then, however, I've been buying discs like there's no tomorrow, all of which are duplicates of movies I already own! Long live HD DVD!
#34
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From user reports, it's clear that the A2's that sold in huge numbers last week were, in fact, old stock. People found manufacturing dates ranging well over a year old, and some boxes were stickered and packaged for promotions that had taken place in individual store chains ("HDMI cable included!").
Now, we all know that warehousing old stock is just another way for a company to bleed to death, so for Toshiba to make this deal with Walmart, and to work with other retailers to reduce the price, was a smart move, even if it "lost" money.
I say "lost" because the money was already spent when the machines were made, and for whatever reason Toshiba made far more than they could sell at the ~$250 they were going for last spring. So it was a matter of how much of that investment could they recoup.
So, turning lemons into lemonade, they came up with a strategy that could spell success for the format as a whole, even if they didn't recoup what they spent to make 125 thousand A2s.
If it works, the loss they take on these machines is trivial. There is huge money to be made in the future. If it doesn't, it's still trivial compared to the loss they will take if the whole HD-DVD format fails.
Brilliant move.
Now, we all know that warehousing old stock is just another way for a company to bleed to death, so for Toshiba to make this deal with Walmart, and to work with other retailers to reduce the price, was a smart move, even if it "lost" money.
I say "lost" because the money was already spent when the machines were made, and for whatever reason Toshiba made far more than they could sell at the ~$250 they were going for last spring. So it was a matter of how much of that investment could they recoup.
So, turning lemons into lemonade, they came up with a strategy that could spell success for the format as a whole, even if they didn't recoup what they spent to make 125 thousand A2s.
If it works, the loss they take on these machines is trivial. There is huge money to be made in the future. If it doesn't, it's still trivial compared to the loss they will take if the whole HD-DVD format fails.
Brilliant move.
#35
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According to Bill Hunt, Toshiba has already spend $500 million in incentives promotions... Wonder how much this A2 sale "costed" them.
#38
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Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
According to Bill Hunt, Toshiba has already spend $500 million in incentives promotions... Wonder how much this A2 sale "costed" them.
Considering all the "incentives" he gets from Sony, I'm surprised that anyone still considers him to be credible on anything...
#39
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD
According to Bill Hunt, Toshiba has already spend $500 million in incentives promotions... Wonder how much this A2 sale "costed" them.
#40
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by silentbob007
I love Bill Hunt's editorial over at the bits. Basically, Toshiba is stupid for almost assuredly selling players below cost, they will never make any money, etc. Of course, no mention of the PS3 ever selling below cost ....
Hey, I love the Blu-ray format too...but Mr. Hunt is ready to propose to it.
Last edited by Shannon Nutt; 11-07-07 at 12:13 PM.
#41
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Originally Posted by ResIpsa
AVS is comedy gold after every big development in the HD "war." Pure nerd on nerd carnage .
#42
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Originally Posted by jpdude
Unfortunately, I'm sure the greety bastards at Sony will see that this never happens
#43
90,000? Good numbers for a "secret" sale. I hope HD-DVD is around to stay. Then I can invest in buying HD-DVD's and not worry over upgrading to a new model of the player anytime soon.
#44
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That's incredible for HD DVD. Especially considering this basically took place over the course of three days.
As for AVS, well, the HDM forums over there have been worthless for a long time now. I still browse their display forums though, it's a repository of priceless knowledge.
I actually have to hand it to you guys, everyone has acted very civilly in the face of this sale.
As for AVS, well, the HDM forums over there have been worthless for a long time now. I still browse their display forums though, it's a repository of priceless knowledge.
I actually have to hand it to you guys, everyone has acted very civilly in the face of this sale.
#46
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I agree. I think that by and large, the HDM community here is down for movies, and less for a format. I think we saw a big portion of our population that was BD-exclusive before the sale go neautral because of it. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if ANY BD model cpable of playing the main feature was available for $150 tomorrow, I would be a dual-format supporter in practice and not just philosophy. The sale made it very cheap for a BD owner to be dual format.
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Originally Posted by jpdude
Unfortunately, I'm sure the greety bastards at Sony will see that this never happens
I only own Blu-ray, but I am happy that Toshiba is still fighting the good fight. This format war has brought HD prices down at an incredible speed!
#48
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I can tell you with 100% certainty that if ANY BD model cpable of playing the main feature was available for $150 tomorrow, I would be a dual-format supporter in practice and not just philosophy.
Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
This format war has brought HD prices down at an incredible speed!
#49
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As if they weren't backed up enough as it is with the 5 free hd dvd rebate. I can't imagine what the wait is going to be like when they get over 100k submissions in the next 2 weeks.