Each format has well over 300 titles and that number will continue to rise after Q4 and through 2008. I don't think it's a risk to pick either side at this point. I orignally thought the only sole winner would have been Blu-ray, since all but 1 studio supported them. After Paramount's switch, I believe we'll be seeing both of these for quite some time. As prices drop on hardware and more titles are released, each side will have built up a large customer base and there won't be any reason to drop 1 of them.

The longer people wait to jump in, the slower HD adoption happens, which could affect studios' intentions of digging into their vaults to re-release on HD. If you have the money, and have a HDTV, I see no reason not to make the switch. Either format player will play ALL of your dvds, so no need to replace them. However, eventually, when you do make the switch, all of these dvds that are being bought now will end up getting re-bought later, so why not just get the HD version now?

I watched Transformers last night and it looked and sounded amazing. If you really love films, then I think it makes sense that you would want to see them in the highest quality available, which HD DVD/Blu-ray both offer.

I used to be really worried about the format war between the HD camps, but now since I think both will be around, the war needs to shift towards dvd. We need more people to realize the benefits of HD and start moving towards HD. DVD was revolutionary, but it's limited. It can't offer what HD DVD/Blu-ray does, high quality sound and picture.

*crickets*

I was waiting to see if anyone would mention that, seeing all this 1.0 & 1.1 stuff being thrown around as the end all. Guess HD-DVD is not a finalized spec either, huh? Maybe Gizmo and chanster should recommend no one buy HD-DVD at all since the MOVIE itself will not play, not just some little PIP window.

And tell us why Transformers did not have a lossless track? Never seem to see that brought up either. Hint: lack of disc space.

Since it's implied that we prize extras over movie content and should not buy players because of it, what about the Harry Potter 5 BD that will have the extras in HD when the HD-DVD won't? How about the Shoot 'Em Up BD will have PIP while the HD-DVD won't, faked or not. Wouldn't you want to have the best presentation of extras? Even if they have IME, they should be able to offer the other stuff up in HD as well, no? If HD-DVD 30gb of space is limiting the inclusion of extras/lossless audio and God knows what else, shouldn't that be a factor? Apparently not.

As expected, this thread would turn into a bashfest. So where is this one post "new member" that started this thread anyway?

This thread quickly went to hell in a handbasket.

What'd you really expect?

How did you get that interpretation from my post? I specifically wrote "some people" and "many people" because there are very few absolutes. No where did I even mention DVDTalk, AVS, or HTF.

Most of the reviews I've read on Transformers still gave it the highest rating for audio. I don't think we'd see a TL disc unless they are confident it would play on all generation machines. Since Toshiba prides itself on the fact that every generation of their player can play all features on HD DVD discs, why should we doubt that wouldn't be the case for TL discs?

I think the point some are making with profile talk is this:

HD DVD and Blu-ray both can deliver 1080p picture.

HD DVD and Blu-ray both can deliver lossless sound.

Only HD DVD can deliver true interactive/web enabled features as of now. There's not 3 different sets of specs for HD DVD. For BD, you've got 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0. When we get to 2.0 features, are we going to see a long list on the back of the case stating

IME - 1.1 spec (will not work on 1.0 players)
Web Enabled BD-Live feature - 2.0 spec (will not work on 1.0 & 1.1 players)
and so on...?

A warp speed trip to hell.

I don't understand this. Why would one blu-ray machine not be able to play extras that another one could? What kind of "extras" are we talking about here? 3-D holograms or something?

Web content and PiP are the primary things I think the current machines won't be able to play.

Of course. But the reviews I've read about it have been fairly poor. Unlike the PS3 which gets great reviews for Blu-ray, I do not see many people recommending the Xbox add-on for HD-DVD.

if the 51GB testing concludes that they are not playable on current HD DVD players, but they are approved for production anyway and studios decide to actually use them (a highly unlikely scenario), then you will have a valid counterpoint to the profile situation with blu-ray. until then, it is simply not comparable. no one has stated that 51GB HD DVDs are definitely coming at a certain date (or ever) or that players made before that date will not be compatible. to suggest otherwise on either of those points is pure speculation.

the blu-ray spec situation, on the other hand, requires no speculation. profile 1.1 features on BDs will not play on profile 1.0 players. the BDA is very clear on that.

my recommendation to the OP: get both formats.

very well said!

I made the switch the hd-dvd in August and I'm blown away by what I've seen so far just finished watching Alexander and it looked amazing!!

I've started ordering Blu-ray movies and plan on getting a Blu-ray player also around xmas time

There is valid counterpoint. You just seem to ignore the fact that it is much more serious to solve.

The dilemma is whether you put the much touted extras via profile 1.1 on BR and have one player which will be upgraded to support it, AND consider the upcoming 1.1 players.

OR...

Begin trimming what could and couldn't fit on the disc due to space limitations (HDDVD).

The Paramount statement is quite revealing indeed. And that is I assume Matome was pointing.

Pro-B

I've read waaaaaaay too many posts about HD-DVD discs that can't be properly played on their machines. That would drive me nuts, I mean, how many times does that happen with normal (new) DVD's ? Indeed. The start-up times for all hardware before you can watch your films on disc sounds horrible as well.
And boy does it blow that neither Blu Ray or HD DVD machines can play standard DVD's from all regions. So at the moment (Blu ray players being way too expensive) neither of the new formats sound exactly tempting.

I think you may assume too much. Matome was pointing out two separate issues in his post and I responded to the first one brought up (note the quoted text): the incompatibility comparison of 51GB HD DVD to BD profile 1.1.

the issue of space on current HD DVDs has been debated ad nauseum, so it's probably not worth re-hashing, but i will say two things:

-- paramount never made any official statement, as you have suggested. a reviewer claims someone from paramount said something to that effect at a media event, which is, at best, hearsay.

-- even if DD+ audio was chosen because of space limitations, the HD DVD had enough space to provide a fantastic, extremely well-reviewed presentation of the film and interactive extras that are still not possible on any Blu-ray player.

don't get me wrong. i recognize and appreciate the technical advantages that blu-ray has in disc capacity and max bitrate. i simply don't see the practical applications of those advantages as being nearly as important as they are often made out to be. the difference between 1.5MBs DD+ audio and lossless audio is practically indiscernable to most people's ears, so i'm not really concerned about the possibility of a tradeoff there. the potential improvement in picture quality from video encoded at a higher bitrate is negligible at best. those issues pale in comparison to the confusion and frustration of the blu-ray profiles for those of us who want the full interactive experience that hi-def media has to offer. and i say that as someone who is extremely eager to jump into blu-ray.

If you're waiting for a player to hit the $50 mark, you'll be waiting a couple of years. If your budget is that tight, HD DVD is really the only option, considering BD costs ~2x as much.

<hr>

These two statements directly contradict each other.

I personally don't see there being a problem with 1.0 and 1.1 players. The people who bought $1000 BD players at launch probably will not mind buying a $400 BD player once 1.1 is out in the wild in a player they like. Plus, we've know about this problem for a while so it's not like it just popped out of nowhere.

That both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are putting players on the market while they're still working out the specs is keeping me away from HD as much as the format war.

It's frankly ridiculous that Blu-Ray players are being pumped out while they're still working on the specs. 1.0/1.1/2.0? What happens when they get up to 3.0? And if the PS3 is the only player out there that will be compatible with all specs, why are they even letting standalone players on the market? Do they expect people to buy a new player every year if they didn't buy a gameing deck?

And I'm also alarmed about the prospect of triple layer HD-DVDs not being playable on current players. This shouldn't even be an option.

Well I just encountered playback problems with Disc 2 of Mission Impossible III on my brand new HD-A30 player. Even with all of these updates it doesn't seem to solve these problems. Why does this shit have to be so difficult?

Profile 1.1 had a deadline coming up in 11 days.
When is TL coming out? You have a date for that? This is simply a tactic Pro-Blu people use to try and soften to blow up their upcoming 1.1 mess. TL is not being used by any studio and and no movies are planned for it. From what some insiders have said on AVS, the TL is working fine on all 3 players and only a simple firmware update will be needed.

We know RIGHT NOW all stand alones can NOT play 1.1 features. PERIOD. Most players have no network connection and the others can't handle the required specs. Its not like they can just put an extra video processor inside of it.

Double Post.

I am sorry BUS but they don't!

As of this very moment PS3 is a 1.0 player. There is sufficient information pointing to the fact that PS3 will be 1.1 compatible via firmware upgrade. This exclusion alone refutes the "obsolete" theory GizmoDVD announced.

Furthermore, when someone notes that a generation of machines will be obsolete I take it as unable to play 1.1 encoded discs. Yet, it has been noted over and over again that aside from the 1.1 encoded bit of supplemental material the main feature and the rest of the non-1.1 extras will be accessible by 1.0 players just fine.

Pro-B

Could you point me to the source of this announcement? I would like to see what insider has announced that only a firmware upgrade will be needed, and the three players in question.

Pro-B

Notice how we always say "stand alone" players? Meaning everything that is NOT a PS3 system as that is hardly a stand alone system. Ive mentioned it before as has many others.

1.0 that cannot be upgraded to 1.1 makes it obsolete. Feel free to continue you're reasoning why, but regardless of what you say there will always be features that $1,000 Samsung Player last year can not play. That new Sharp player launched last week won't play 1.1 features.

As long as there is one feature that the the current stand alones can't play, it is now OBSOLETE. It has been passed by the newer 1.1 systems. Get you use it. Stop trying to rephrase and spin. This is a fact. As of TODAY, HD DVD and Blu-ray can both play all features. As of next month, Blu-ray will not. Period. I'm done arguing with you as its fairly clear where you stand and will not budge. I on the other hand, with many others, are format neutral. You are not. I am done. This is like 8 year olds bickering over who's father is stronger then the others.

Obviously you believe that your opinion is the one and only one that matters. Yet, it has been pointed out to you numerous times that you are fabricating facts to serve your own agenda. Here's tonymontana313's response to your "obsolete" theory, which as expected you ended up with another self-contradictory statement:

Post #101: General HDDVD News and Discussions Thread Part 2

Your reply, post #103, same thread:

Speculation? Well, that is just strange, very strange in fact. Because in another thread you went the opposite direction and assured everyone that these discs will in fact work just fine on ALL HDDVD players. If one would not know any better one would sure take your assurance as a fact.

Post # 261 from the Paramount/ Dreamworks go HDDVD exclusive thread:

These are some quite evolutionary statements, bringing a whole new meaning to the term "spinning".

Ciao,
Pro-B

Perhaps the reason for his contradictory posts on the subject of TL50 HD DVDs is that we've heard at one time from a Toshiba insider that they may not work in current players, but he wasn't sure. Later, when the DVD Forum approved the specs of the discs, Toshiba made statements to the effect that they would work in all players currently out and coming out. I, for one, will believe it when I see it.


Meanwhile, I sincerely hope the OP has decided which way to go, because I'd say the last two pages have had nothing to do with what he asked for.