Blockbuster backs Blu-Ray
06-26-07 | 03:12 AM
#276
DVD Talk Gold Edition
Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Did you just claim something was generally true because you read a message board!?
dvds were more expensive to the consumer compared with the vhs alternative all through their format battle - at least over here. i agree with the idea of convenience being a significant factor (mp3 is another example) but that may be a moot point. the highdef formats don't offer a retrograde step in convenience, while the players are backwards compatible with dvd. if the prices of hardware continue to fall, as the costs and deemed value falls, then highdef players are highly likely to replace dvd players in electronics stores. that would ensure an increasing number of nextgen hardware ends up in people's homes. combined with the growing pace of hdtv adoption. it's possible that many of these people won't combine their two purchases and by a highdef disc instead of the dvd. then again it seems likely that a large number will experiment over time. it's early days to be as pessimistic as some on this forum seem to be.
06-26-07 | 07:21 AM
#277
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
The FCC's mandate to go digital. Feb. 17, 2009 will change that. In fact, a lot of the arguments posted here, including the one above, as well as your previous statement that no average person will plunk more than 200$ for a player is just bogus.
Hi-Def hardware sales have been growing gradually. I will wait for the latest sales report in about 9-10 days to see what the new stats are.
Pro-B
Hi-Def hardware sales have been growing gradually. I will wait for the latest sales report in about 9-10 days to see what the new stats are.
Pro-B
Dude, you are swimming with the big sharks here. Make sure what you're posting is accurate before you say it. If you think you're turning over new rocks here, you probably aren't. I see others have dissected this statement.
You are really damaging your cred here.
06-26-07 | 07:22 AM
#278
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Originally Posted by darkside
Wow, this is officially the biggest load of bullshit I have ever read on this forum. I was much more optimistic about the HD formats when I only supported HD DVD. Going to the side of Blu-ray has done nothing to bolster my confidence in these formats climbing out of a niche.
06-26-07 | 07:26 AM
#279
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Originally Posted by Spiky
Seems we don't like pessimists or optimists. (who could, really) You want a realist's theory? First, everything Breakfast With Girls said was perfect.
Next, I've changed my mind. I used to say this war would be won by content and price after 2-3 years of existence. (which point neither disc has reached) But now I am going to change that to one thing that will decide the war:
Cost.
Whenever studios and mfgrs break through and get mfgring costs for players and discs low enough to compete with DVD (on cost levels, not consumer prices), they will start phasing it out. Players will still play DVDs for consumers' sake, but eventually they (companies) will want to put out only the HD discs for movies. My theory means that by then they will have finally figured out how to use 30-50GB of space intelligently and actually have good video and audio and extras, all on one release! (why they simply couldn't port what they have learned in 10 years of DVD is beyond me, I blame marketing)
Sony shows all the signs of beating this one into the ground for a long, long time. This is the main reason I have changed my reasoning. They are going to treat BD like they did CD, not SACD. They will not give up, they will continue to use it for as many products as possible til we are sick of Blu. They want to replace the ubiquitous "DVD" with "Bluray". If Tosh wants to compete, that is what they are up against.
This is, of course, IMO.
Next, I've changed my mind. I used to say this war would be won by content and price after 2-3 years of existence. (which point neither disc has reached) But now I am going to change that to one thing that will decide the war:
Cost.
Whenever studios and mfgrs break through and get mfgring costs for players and discs low enough to compete with DVD (on cost levels, not consumer prices), they will start phasing it out. Players will still play DVDs for consumers' sake, but eventually they (companies) will want to put out only the HD discs for movies. My theory means that by then they will have finally figured out how to use 30-50GB of space intelligently and actually have good video and audio and extras, all on one release! (why they simply couldn't port what they have learned in 10 years of DVD is beyond me, I blame marketing)
Sony shows all the signs of beating this one into the ground for a long, long time. This is the main reason I have changed my reasoning. They are going to treat BD like they did CD, not SACD. They will not give up, they will continue to use it for as many products as possible til we are sick of Blu. They want to replace the ubiquitous "DVD" with "Bluray". If Tosh wants to compete, that is what they are up against.
This is, of course, IMO.
06-26-07 | 07:31 AM
#280
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Originally Posted by QuePaso
This scenario, IMHO, is just very far fetched. Everything that you list is very unlikely to happen and would pretty much need to come out of left field. You need a string of things to reverse, quickly, that dont seem plausible. Also, the end result is not guarenteed. Disney could say "we dont need hd-dvd" and stick to blu-ray and HD Downloads off of internet. There is no law written that they have to support hd-dvd, ever. You have to realize that HD-DVD is cracked for life, any content anyone puts out on it, it will be pirated hours later. They tried to fix it by releasing new HD-DVD keys, and it was cracked 2 weeks before the discs even hit the shelves.
Also, i dont see why walmart, would back hd-dvd with a million players and support it exclusively when hd-dvd is selling worse in hardware and software. Also, walmart is a big sony supporter with the PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP from a long time till now, a long history of working together. Sony and Walmart just set up a exclusive deal where Sony TVs would be sold in stores during the holiday season with Sony techs in the store to help customers with questions. Walmarts biggest OEM company in japan, Funai, has stated their Blu-ray player will be out this year. Funai makes all the OEM DVD players, cheap LCD tv's, etc for Walmart. Funai has done over 1 BILLION dollars in business with walmart in 2006. Not sure where you got the idea of them going hd-dvd exclusive, but most signs point the opposite way.
I just want someone to show me a realistic scenario where hd-dvd can not only overcome its hardware and software deficit, but take over the lead and stop the huge amount of blu-ray exclusive summer blockbusters that are heading to blu-ray this holiday season. This is not a flame in anyway, im asking for a logical answer and please dont call me a fanboy because if the tables were turned, i would paint my cat red and support hd-dvd indefinitely. I just want this format war over.
Also, i dont see why walmart, would back hd-dvd with a million players and support it exclusively when hd-dvd is selling worse in hardware and software. Also, walmart is a big sony supporter with the PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP from a long time till now, a long history of working together. Sony and Walmart just set up a exclusive deal where Sony TVs would be sold in stores during the holiday season with Sony techs in the store to help customers with questions. Walmarts biggest OEM company in japan, Funai, has stated their Blu-ray player will be out this year. Funai makes all the OEM DVD players, cheap LCD tv's, etc for Walmart. Funai has done over 1 BILLION dollars in business with walmart in 2006. Not sure where you got the idea of them going hd-dvd exclusive, but most signs point the opposite way.
I just want someone to show me a realistic scenario where hd-dvd can not only overcome its hardware and software deficit, but take over the lead and stop the huge amount of blu-ray exclusive summer blockbusters that are heading to blu-ray this holiday season. This is not a flame in anyway, im asking for a logical answer and please dont call me a fanboy because if the tables were turned, i would paint my cat red and support hd-dvd indefinitely. I just want this format war over.
This is EXACTLY the "realistic scenario where hd-dvd can not only overcome its hardware and software deficit, but take over the lead and stop the huge amount of blu-ray exclusive summer blockbusters that are heading to blu-ray this holiday season."
Will it happen? Dunno. Could it? Yup. Long timers will remember the chest thumping here about how BD would never ever catch HD DVD. A market this small can turn quickly, especially if Wally gets involved.
Of course, this is all contingent on that rumor being true.
I am right now leaning 80% FUD on that rumor.
Last edited by Qui Gon Jim; 06-26-07 at 07:38 AM.
06-26-07 | 08:44 AM
#281
Needs to contact a mod about multiple accounts
For what it's worth, my local Wal-Mart has a huge Blu-ray movies display right as you enter the Electronics section while the HD-DVDs are basically hidden in the back. Personally, I don't care if one format or another wins though.
06-26-07 | 08:48 AM
#282
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Originally Posted by Howiefan
For what it's worth, my local Wal-Mart has a huge Blu-ray movies display right as you enter the Electronics section while the HD-DVDs are basically hidden in the back. Personally, I don't care if one format or another wins though.
And I've seen huge hd-dvd displays in Florida and Tennessee with nary a blu-ray in sight the past month. Maybe it's a regional testing by Wal-Mart.
06-26-07 | 09:11 AM
#283
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The Wal-Mart across the street has HD DVDs and Blu-ray side by side, although Blu-ray makes up about 75% of the high-def titles. They've stocked more BD discs for a while, but they've shifted much further in that direction. It was around 2/3rds Blu-ray a few months ago.
06-26-07 | 10:18 AM
#284
DVD Talk Legend
My local Wal-Mart started stocking them and it was 50/50, but its about 90% Blu-ray now and Target seems to also be putting more effort into stocking Blu-ray new releases.
06-26-07 | 01:20 PM
#286
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From: Blu-ray.com
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
It is posts like this that just make me shake my head.
Dude, you are swimming with the big sharks here. Make sure what you're posting is accurate before you say it. If you think you're turning over new rocks here, you probably aren't. I see others have dissected this statement.
You are really damaging your cred here.
Dude, you are swimming with the big sharks here. Make sure what you're posting is accurate before you say it. If you think you're turning over new rocks here, you probably aren't. I see others have dissected this statement.
You are really damaging your cred here.
You could shake your head all you want. I have no issues with it!
And you warning me to post accurate info, when I asked you to specifically back up your earlier statements with data yet you chose to cave in…it is quite ironic to say the least, don’t you think!
I was not aware that you considered yourself a ‘big shark”, will keep that in mind next time I decide to post my thoughts!
Thank you.
Pro-B
06-26-07 | 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
You could shake your head all you want. I have no issues with it!
And you warning me to post accurate info, when I asked you to specifically back up your earlier statements with data yet you chose to cave in…it is quite ironic to say the least, don’t you think!
I was not aware that you considered yourself a ‘big shark”, will keep that in mind next time I decide to post my thoughts!
Thank you.
Pro-B
And you warning me to post accurate info, when I asked you to specifically back up your earlier statements with data yet you chose to cave in…it is quite ironic to say the least, don’t you think!
I was not aware that you considered yourself a ‘big shark”, will keep that in mind next time I decide to post my thoughts!
Thank you.
Pro-B
The mods here have done a great job clamping down on the bickering, and I think the membership appreciates it and helps keep it up.
The post above is just so much like one of the "backed into a corner" responses from so many of these guys. "I was wrong, so let me redirect onto something else completely." It is so old.
I didn't chose to "cave in." People tried to illustrate things to you over and over, and you just kept trying to spin. Why would I bother? In fact, I am wondering why I am even replying.
If it makes you feel better to have a go at me, feel free. Fact remains that you are regurgitating stuff that has been beaten deader than the deadest horse, and, in my opinion, you are encouraging others to do the same.
06-26-07 | 02:48 PM
#288
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From: Blu-ray.com
Your post:
My reply:
Your following post avoiding the previous post and addressing a new post I've made, one of many since my initial post you criticized and did not bother to address:
No further explanations needed.
Pro-B
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Give me a break. You've been called on your bias, and now you're backpedalling, and trying to twist it like those of us who called you on it, including other reviewers/moderators are the ones with bias. Just in the passage above, you say I am unbiased, but I like BD.
News flash: there are several of us that have been here in this forum since day one. We've seen the fights. We've seen trolls on both sides. The regulars here are for the most part unbiased. Some of us have a preference, but none of us regular commentors have said the other side is doomed. I like HD DVD (for now) and guys like BurntThru seem to prefer BD. That's cool. In a year he may love HD DVD while I will be buying BD exclusively.
I don't want to act like I'm calling you a "noob," but as this forum has evolved, we have sort of gotten to a balance where we can discuss things without bagging the other format. Most of us know where the others stand, and for the most part, we're cool with it.
That said, I think, especially in light of the posting on the front page of this site, reviewers have to show themselves to be way more unbiased that you are acting here. As I said, Josh, Adam and SuperMallet do a great job separating themselves and their personal biases to deliver honest reviews.
You should go the extra mile to stay out of frays like this; it damages your reviewing credibility.
News flash: there are several of us that have been here in this forum since day one. We've seen the fights. We've seen trolls on both sides. The regulars here are for the most part unbiased. Some of us have a preference, but none of us regular commentors have said the other side is doomed. I like HD DVD (for now) and guys like BurntThru seem to prefer BD. That's cool. In a year he may love HD DVD while I will be buying BD exclusively.
I don't want to act like I'm calling you a "noob," but as this forum has evolved, we have sort of gotten to a balance where we can discuss things without bagging the other format. Most of us know where the others stand, and for the most part, we're cool with it.
That said, I think, especially in light of the posting on the front page of this site, reviewers have to show themselves to be way more unbiased that you are acting here. As I said, Josh, Adam and SuperMallet do a great job separating themselves and their personal biases to deliver honest reviews.
You should go the extra mile to stay out of frays like this; it damages your reviewing credibility.
My reply:
Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist
As mind-boggling as it may appear you are either unable to deconstruct what I attempted to point to you or simply choose to act silly for a reason. Furthermore, you seem to resort to a number of lies and fabricate statements I have not made together with made up “facts”. Thus, I am going to ask that you either back your words or simply move away:
1.In post # 139 I asked that you provide your post with a link to a study/article confirming the “widely reported fact”: higher attach HD rate. As none of my previous words were meant to address such a topic I also specifically requested that you clarify if you meant hardware, HDDVD, current favorable pricing, or else! You failed to support your claim!!
2.I made it very clear that at the moment I like BR’s titles better, not technology. To spell it once more for you this means film(s) availbality. You imply that I “doomed” one of the sides. Prove it! With a specific post quoting my words!
3.You state that I am biased! False again! I am neutral when it comes to either of the two formats! I commented on the recent developments on the market 1) the Blockbuster announcement and 2) the Toshiba statement regarding disappointing US sales. As the BB agreement appears to be a long term deal with importrant repercussions already covered by the media overseas I concluded that BR is here to stay. Prove and show the rest of the readers where exactly, in what post, I “bagged” HD.
4.I commented on the news reported by Reuters that Toshiba’s sales have been disappointing. In post # 129 you state that they are not! Here’s the link to the article where the current sales estimate for the calendar 2007 are reported by Toshiba as “down 44%”. I consider this disappointing.
http://news.com.com/Toshiba+drops+sa...3-6190361.html
5.I commented on the fact that with the Blockbuster deal and the recent sales data highlighted in the article below where BR sales are described as “three times greater than that of HDDVD” I concluded that, again, BR is here to stay.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7399
6.Finally, this article suggests that BR holds a 5-1 advantage in installed hardware and also that currently Playstation 3 owners are driving the BR movie sales (note: the article stresses that from the 55$ million spent up to date on Hi-Def films the majority, total of approx. 35$ million belongs to BR).
http://gear.ign.com/articles/798/798463p1.html
…so contrary to what you state in post # 113 insisting that BD owners spent less on films than HD owners, the numbers above show differently. So much for your bogus attach-rate!
Finally, whether you want to believe it or not I care more about titles than the eventual format winner.
Pro-B
1.In post # 139 I asked that you provide your post with a link to a study/article confirming the “widely reported fact”: higher attach HD rate. As none of my previous words were meant to address such a topic I also specifically requested that you clarify if you meant hardware, HDDVD, current favorable pricing, or else! You failed to support your claim!!
2.I made it very clear that at the moment I like BR’s titles better, not technology. To spell it once more for you this means film(s) availbality. You imply that I “doomed” one of the sides. Prove it! With a specific post quoting my words!
3.You state that I am biased! False again! I am neutral when it comes to either of the two formats! I commented on the recent developments on the market 1) the Blockbuster announcement and 2) the Toshiba statement regarding disappointing US sales. As the BB agreement appears to be a long term deal with importrant repercussions already covered by the media overseas I concluded that BR is here to stay. Prove and show the rest of the readers where exactly, in what post, I “bagged” HD.
4.I commented on the news reported by Reuters that Toshiba’s sales have been disappointing. In post # 129 you state that they are not! Here’s the link to the article where the current sales estimate for the calendar 2007 are reported by Toshiba as “down 44%”. I consider this disappointing.
http://news.com.com/Toshiba+drops+sa...3-6190361.html
5.I commented on the fact that with the Blockbuster deal and the recent sales data highlighted in the article below where BR sales are described as “three times greater than that of HDDVD” I concluded that, again, BR is here to stay.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7399
6.Finally, this article suggests that BR holds a 5-1 advantage in installed hardware and also that currently Playstation 3 owners are driving the BR movie sales (note: the article stresses that from the 55$ million spent up to date on Hi-Def films the majority, total of approx. 35$ million belongs to BR).
http://gear.ign.com/articles/798/798463p1.html
…so contrary to what you state in post # 113 insisting that BD owners spent less on films than HD owners, the numbers above show differently. So much for your bogus attach-rate!
Finally, whether you want to believe it or not I care more about titles than the eventual format winner.
Pro-B
Your following post avoiding the previous post and addressing a new post I've made, one of many since my initial post you criticized and did not bother to address:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
It is posts like this that just make me shake my head.
Dude, you are swimming with the big sharks here. Make sure what you're posting is accurate before you say it. If you think you're turning over new rocks here, you probably aren't. I see others have dissected this statement.
You are really damaging your cred here.
Dude, you are swimming with the big sharks here. Make sure what you're posting is accurate before you say it. If you think you're turning over new rocks here, you probably aren't. I see others have dissected this statement.
You are really damaging your cred here.
Pro-B
06-26-07 | 02:53 PM
#289
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Based on this thread I have to say that Pro-B has been more than keeping his part in the 'discussion' department. Whether I agree with his stance is irrelevant because he is backing up most of his arguments and is very civil about his responses. I have seen more uncivil responses with threats(implied) toward his posts than the other way.
I have read practically every post in this thread (and from someone who is/was considering hddvd and hoping due to its pricepoint that it will not go the way of beta) and think it would be a disservice to this forum to lose someone who actually puts together well thought out posts.
I have read practically every post in this thread (and from someone who is/was considering hddvd and hoping due to its pricepoint that it will not go the way of beta) and think it would be a disservice to this forum to lose someone who actually puts together well thought out posts.
06-26-07 | 03:39 PM
#290
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Originally Posted by maxpower
Based on this thread I have to say that Pro-B has been more than keeping his part in the 'discussion' department. Whether I agree with his stance is irrelevant because he is backing up most of his arguments and is very civil about his responses. I have seen more uncivil responses with threats(implied) toward his posts than the other way.
I have read practically every post in this thread (and from someone who is/was considering hddvd and hoping due to its pricepoint that it will not go the way of beta) and think it would be a disservice to this forum to lose someone who actually puts together well thought out posts.
I have read practically every post in this thread (and from someone who is/was considering hddvd and hoping due to its pricepoint that it will not go the way of beta) and think it would be a disservice to this forum to lose someone who actually puts together well thought out posts.
06-27-07 | 10:48 AM
#292
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Pro-B, just keep in mind that even though Blockbuster's revenues might dwarf those of Netflix, they're losing money hand over fist. They haven't posted a positive earnings quarter in the past 2 years. They're just bleeding money. Netflix on the other hand has been profitable for the past two years.
I'm not saying one company is better than the other. Personally I haven't used either service and haven't stopped into any sort of rental store in the past 4 years. Then again I don't consider myself J6P either.
I'm not saying one company is better than the other. Personally I haven't used either service and haven't stopped into any sort of rental store in the past 4 years. Then again I don't consider myself J6P either.
06-27-07 | 02:10 PM
#293
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by QuePaso
You have to realize that HD-DVD is cracked for life, any content anyone puts out on it, it will be pirated hours later. They tried to fix it by releasing new HD-DVD keys, and it was cracked 2 weeks before the discs even hit the shelves.
06-27-07 | 02:51 PM
#294
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Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
What? Blu-Ray copy protection has been cracked as well. If you think Blu-Ray+ is going to fix that, you're mistaken. Copy protection never works.
06-27-07 | 03:37 PM
#295
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Originally Posted by QuePaso
Blu-ray has BD+ and ROM-Mark. ROM-Mark has been in effect since day 1 and still till now, no one can press a fake blu-ray disc due to it. Anyone in china can convert their DVD line into a hd-dvd line and start pressing fake hd-dvd discs till the cows come home. You have to think in a more global level.
Sure, as long as you don't count re-authored discs. The torrent sites are filthy with rips of BD movies which can EASILY be turned into brand new BD discs complete with menus and -- depending on the pirate's dedication/initiative -- special features. What's more, said BD rips can likewise be turned into HD DVDs and even burned onto a standard dual-layered DVD-/+R, which can be played on any HD DVD player.
06-27-07 | 03:47 PM
#296
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Originally Posted by applesandrice
Sure, as long as you don't count re-authored discs. The torrent sites are filthy with rips of BD movies which can EASILY be turned into brand new BD discs complete with menus and -- depending on the pirate's dedication/initiative -- special features. What's more, said BD rips can likewise be turned into HD DVDs and even burned onto a standard dual-layered DVD-/+R, which can be played on any HD DVD player.
a) a non-laptop HD-DVD burner doesnt exist yet
b) there is nothing bigger then single layer 15 gig discs available for sale
c) the blu-ray bandwidth is much higher then hd-dvd, and most encodes would not play in the player. The same is not said about hd-dvd. There are people who have ported every single hd-dvd exclusive onto BD-R blanks and they play perfect. There is a pic of Matrix 1 running on a PS3 around on the net as well. POTC 1 or 2 can NEVER fit onto a hd-dvd due to size/bandwidth. You'd have to make it look worse to do it. Which totally defeats the purpose of owning a HD Format in the first place. If PQ isnt #1, stick to DVD.
06-27-07 | 04:19 PM
#298
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by QuePaso
I dont think the studios are worried about a guy burning discs with a burner at home.
ROM-Mark doesn't do anything to stop online distribution, and BD+ isn't going to help either (one of the reasons Microsoft lobbied against adopting it on HD DVD was that it opened up security holes they had otherwise plugged).
06-27-07 | 07:59 PM
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Josh Z is completely correct. The number one mode of piracy at this time, according to the studios, is online. BD and HD discs have been online for months.
