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Black Hawk Down: A test for BD?
This should be an interesting test subject IMHO for BD.
The movie itself is 144 min (or 152, depending on which version they use). It will be in MPEG2. It will most likely be single layered. How many audio options will be included? Also, there's a shitload of extras from that 3 disc DVD set. Will those all be ported over? Will there be enough room for all of it on one BD disc or will this be a bare-bones "Superbit" BHD? It seems like a lot and I will be very interested to see if BD pulls it off. |
my fingers are crossed that it sounds and looks great. Seeing how and what they will include as extras will indeed be interesting to note. In typical Sony form, I bet you anything it will be the 144 min. version.
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I think they should have delayed this and delivered it on a DL disc. The 3 disc set content has to be on the Blu-Ray disc or it's not not as cool as it could be. I'll wait on BHD if it doesn't have everything the expanded set has.
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According to the specs at the link below, neither BHD nor Memento Blu-rays are going to contain all the extras of the SD versions.
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releas...t-blu-ray.html |
Originally Posted by Rusty James
According to the specs at the link below, neither BHD nor Memento Blu-rays are going to contain all the extras of the SD versions.
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releas...t-blu-ray.html |
BHD was rumored to be the first DL title with lossless audio.
Good luck. |
Originally Posted by Rusty James
According to the specs at the link below, neither BHD nor Memento Blu-rays are going to contain all the extras of the SD versions.
http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releas...t-blu-ray.html "Ok so I buy a new HD version of a film, but I don't get evrything the DVD has?!" I realise that this is so Sony can rerelease again sometime, but still this sends the wrong message! :thmbsdwn: |
Originally Posted by Kant
"Ok so I buy a new HD version of a film, but I don't get evrything the DVD has?!"
I realise that this is so Sony can rerelease again sometime, but still this sends the wrong message! :thmbsdwn: I don't think they can actually make it all fit onto their 25GB discs using MPEG 2 compression. And I believe the rumors/reports that they can't make DL 50GB discs with any sort of reliability. Just like Microsoft said in the report explaining why MS chose HD DVD. One of the reasons was that MS believed BR wouldn't be able to make good on all the promises of extra capacity due to manufacturing issues. While I don't believe everything I read or hear, everything they've said for months about BR sure looks to be true. EDIT: Oh, and I have to wonder, since Sony loves to tout the fact that they have huge CE backing from giants like Pioneer, Panasonic, et al., why they can't get their damn technology to work. With all that CE firepower, you'd think they could get DL discs to work. Or at least SL discs. And players. |
Originally Posted by awmurray
EDIT: Oh, and I have to wonder, since Sony loves to tout the fact that they have huge CE backing from giants like Pioneer, Panasonic, et al., why they can't get their damn technology to work. With all that CE firepower, you'd think they could get DL discs to work. Or at least SL discs. And players.
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I would say that backing from Pioneer and Panasonic is worthless in this topic, at least this summer. They are waiting for the technology to be made at this point. And Sony is the one working on it, with Samsung. Maybe next year the other companies will start having an impact once they start tweaking.
This would apply to HDDVD, as well. |
Well they did use the original release art for BHD if that's any indication... I would expect a higher priced edition later on with the extras from the 3disc dvd. (hopefully not too much later) I'd love for the releases to be loaded right outta the chute, but that doesn't look like it's going to be the case. :(
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The news so far isn't encouraging. BHD is one of the few BD releases I am eager to see and now it sounds like it is going to be sub-standard. Sony seems to be doing their best to screw things up.
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Originally Posted by awmurray
Just like Microsoft said in the report explaining why MS chose HD DVD. One of the reasons was that MS believed BR wouldn't be able to make good on all the promises of extra capacity due to manufacturing issues. While I don't believe everything I read or hear, everything they've said for months about BR sure looks to be true.
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
Listening to Microsoft about Blu-ray is going to be about as accurate as listening to Ann Coulter for a fair view of liberals. Microsoft wants to BURY Sony. I'm not saying that the rumors circulating aren't true (I honestly haven't read enough to say they are or aren't), but Microsoft wouldn't say something good about BD to save Bill Gates' life.
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I'm not turning this into a BD vs. HD debate, I'm only saying anything Microsoft says should be taken with a grain of salt (or at least verified with a more neutral third party) because they are so determined to destroy Sony.
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Originally Posted by Suprmallet
I'm not turning this into a BD vs. HD debate, I'm only saying anything Microsoft says should be taken with a grain of salt (or at least verified with a more neutral third party) because they are so determined to destroy Sony.
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Even before this format war, the words "Trust" and "Microsoft" were never intertwined in my mind, unless you throw in "Anti" before the "trust". :)
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Yea, I don't believe what MS says w/o question. However, MS said they chose HD-DVD because BR would have manufacturing problems. That was months ago. It seems like BR is being delayed due to the very reasons MS alluded to. There are rumors of yield problems with the discs, just like predicted, etc..
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Look at where those rumours are mainly coming from. ;)
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Look at where those rumours are mainly coming from. ;)
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Many of the rumours are coming from MS posters on an internet message board. Strange that these rumours should support Microsoft's stated position. ;)
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Many of the rumours are coming from MS posters on an internet message board. Strange that these rumours should support Microsoft's stated position. ;)
I'm not talking about rumors. I'm talking about multiple product delays, high cost and low disc yields. I've heard of those things from other sources besides MS. |
Originally Posted by awmurray
The point is BR seems to be having the exact problems that were predicted months ago in the 'why MS chose HD-DVD' article.
I'm not talking about rumors. I'm talking about multiple product delays, high cost and low disc yields. I've heard of those things from other sources besides MS. Burnt is just pissed because most of them have been bad about BD. I wouldn't say there's an anti-BD stance from the MS guys. Obviously they work for a company that is supporting a product and as such, all of their information seems to be (mostly) about HD DVD and where it stands as of now. You should try reading the postings from the MS insiders before bashing them. Everyone else there seems to respect them. |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
At this point, I'd trust Microsoft over Sony ANY day. Look at what we're dealing with?
Where is Vista, again? |
Originally Posted by Spiky
Sorry, but that is just silly. Maybe if you qualified that to be only refering to HDDVD vs BD.
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Originally Posted by awmurray
The point is BR seems to be having the exact problems that were predicted months ago in the 'why MS chose HD-DVD' article.
I'm not talking about rumors. I'm talking about multiple product delays, high cost and low disc yields. I've heard of those things from other sources besides MS. |
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
As to the high costs that isn't something I've really seen anywhere except rumours. Rumours mostly posted by the MS employees on AVS.
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
There have been very similar delays for both formats, with HD DVD probably suffering more in that respect (Nov 2005 to Apr 2006). As to the high costs that isn't something I've really seen anywhere except rumours. Rumours mostly posted by the MS employees on AVS. Low yields were always expected early in a new format's life, much as with DVD, so I'm not sure why that should surprise anyone.
Truth is truth. Don't dismiss it as being falst just because of where they work. Again, read their posts. They're not being unfair. To dismiss them is kidding yourself (collective "you"). |
Originally Posted by digitalfreaknyc
Doesn't matter who said it or who they work for.
Truth is truth. Don't dismiss it as being falst just because of where they work. Again, read their posts. They're not being unfair. To dismiss them is kidding yourself (collective "you").
Originally Posted by awmurray
They were talking about higher cost of manufacturing the hardware as well. Those "rumors" have obviously come true.
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
In what respect? BTW equating price with cost would be a mistake.
You buy one or two, then tell us which is the best. I'll pick it up after it comes in below $500. |
Originally Posted by awmurray
Well, the bottom line is it costs ME 100-260% more to buy a BR player for the same PQ. That's a no sale. Do I really care what it costs manufacturers? No. I assume that it is more difficult to manufacture a BR player (at least some of them can't even play CDs) like I've read for over a year (due to lower tolerances, etc.). An HD-DVD player is closer to a DVD player and therefore it costs less to make one (so I've read). The MSRP is apparently bearing that out. Or maybe BR decks are $1000+ for fun...
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Ah, so you were equating cost with price.
Like I said, you go buy a couple of different units (whenever they finally get released) and report back here to let us know which one is best. |
You're mixing engineering/design with production.
Indeed, BD is more of an engineering challenge to design than HD DVD. I think everyone agrees with that. Now, once we leave engineering/design behind, is BD hardware more of a production challenge to build? |
Judging by his last post I think awmurray has decided to stop talking rationally and take up a fundamentalist position: throwing everything he can think of into the mix in a vain attempt to get something to stick. What on earth he thinks durabis II on the discs has to do with the cost of manufacturing a BD player I don't know! There's still nothing to suggest BD players are much more expensive to manufacture than HD DVD players. In fact since the BD players will be SoC solutions from the off there's every chance the PC based Tosh player will be more expensive to make!
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Originally Posted by Grubert
Indeed, BD is more of an engineering challenge to design than HD DVD. I think everyone agrees with that.
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
Judging by his last post I think awmurray has decided to stop talking rationally and take up a fundamentalist position: throwing everything he can think of into the mix in a vain attempt to get something to stick.
Here are the important parts. Note that this was 9/27/05. All of this appears to be coming to pass now. That's why I don't think all of this is MS FUD or "rumors": Maintaining low production costs is a critical factor, which has been a key HD DVD talking point in light of current revelations about factory upgrade costs for Blu-ray. "For a long time, we actually thought that the Blu-ray Group had the upper hand in costs," Ribas said, mainly because of the involvement in Blu-ray of most of the major Japanese CE manufacturers - Sony, Matsushita (Panasonic), Pioneer, and Sharp - as well as Philips. Here is where recent events played a critical role: In a development that was brought to light only this morning , two of the world's leading China-based DVD player production facilities announced their support for HD DVD over Blu-ray. In press statements, these companies cited the relative openness of the DVD Forum compared to the Blu-ray Disc Association. "Now that we see China embracing HD DVD," said Ribas, "we actually see that on the cost side, HD DVD will have an advantage, because the Chinese have been the ones who have lowered the prices, via the competition, for HD DVD players." As much as 75 percent of DVD players sold in America today come from China, he added. Maintaining low disc replication costs affects the consumer price for media, said Ribas, which would play into any price/performance evaluation. A disc production factory can make minor upgrades to its equipment, he stated, with the result being equipment that can produce both conventional DVD as well as HD DVD. Citing figures circulating this week throughout the industry, Ribas said it would cost as much as $1.7 million per production line to install Blu-ray disc production equipment, and as much as $2.0 million for each new mastering system installed. That's a significant expense, he explained, for a business which only turns over a 10 percent margin. The surprise entry in Microsoft's and Intel's list of failures is disc storage capacity . On paper, Blu-ray appears to have the advantage. But the two companies looked beneath the paper: Capacity, said Ribas, "used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it. We thought, they'll get 50 GByte BD-ROM discs working, but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots. It's only in the lab that they are building these discs." With regard to demonstrated capacity, he told us, HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte. |
Back to the topic at hand -
Black Hawk Down has been dropped from the Sony release schedule, so it won't come until September at the earliest. |
Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
What on earth he thinks durabis II on the discs has to do with the cost of manufacturing a BD player I don't know!
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Originally Posted by Josh Z
Well, for one thing, the player has to be engineered to be able to read through the Durabis II coating.
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Originally Posted by awmurray
Did you even read the article?
Here are the important parts. Note that this was 9/27/05. All of this appears to be coming to pass now. That's why I don't think all of this is MS FUD or "rumors": Capacity has for a long time now been known to be 25Gb ROM at launch with 50Gb ROM to follow soon afterwards. It's clear these 50Gb discs are already being manufactured for R/RE (and are on sale), so the only issue is with improving yields/costs to the point they become viable for ROM usage as well. The MS spin claiming they're not happening anywhere outside the lab is nonsense. The 2nd of Microsoft's 3 points has been pretty well disproved. "Maintaining low disc replication costs affects the consumer price for media", said Ribas Take a look at the prices of the early BD discs and compare them with the prices of HD DVDs and you'll see that the slight increase in cost to manufacture hasn't been passed on to consumers. This was always a dodgy argument, though. |
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