Just wondering with all the HTPC folks, if you are recording AND saving shows/movies/etc in any HD format? I have started to record a few movies, shows and music stuff from my HD cable box, and transfering them to my Mac Mini. With some of the movies being virtually the same as the HD DVDs that are coming out, plus many more movies being shown on HD Cable, than is available on any new format, I was wondering if there are other "archivers" on DVDTalk.

I bought the ATI HDTV wonder for that purpose, but ended up only archiving some Winter Olympics stuff. I only have 500GB's of hard drive space in my HTPC and HD eats it up real quick.

For those that are doing it, which Cable Boxes do you have?

Motorola DCT6200

Recording the raw .ts as given to me by Comcast. Using a firewire cable it's incredibly easy to record anything and nothing is re-encoded.

You should really have a look at the a.b.hdtv newsgroup just about every show/movie aired in hd is there. It'll be years before hd-dvd/blu-ray catches up with all the films that have been posted or archived already.

Since I don't have a way of downloading and looking at newsgroups, that's pretty impossible for me... Plus, TWC seems to have a vendetta against my capturing TS streams.

Yes you do

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Custo...etID=0&CatID=9

I record OTA HDTV using a MCE PC. I have two HD-tuners and it is pure sweetness. I have about 2 TB of hard drive space in my HTPC (and a few externals I can add), so I can keep stuff in full-HD for a while. And when I want to archive onto DVD, I use VideoRedo (nix commercials) and HDTV2MPEG to get myself Nero-burnable files.

I got tired of waiting for TiVo to get off their asses (with the Series3) and I could not be happier with my current setup. I cannot believe I survived as long as I did without a HTPC.

Well it depends on your downstream. Luckily comcast is slowly raising the bar to compete with verizon and rcn here. Depending on the movies they can be a hefty download but the quality is worth it. As for newsgroup access get a private account with easynews or newshosting and have access to your heart's desire. All the kid's are doing it. And yes Tivo is really taking their sweet old time on series 3.

I recorded a bunch of stuff this past week. It's amazing how much better some stuff looks than the DVD's. Pulp Fiction, Sin City, Raiders, plus a bunch others are night and day better than the DVD counterparts...

I have doing this for about 2 years now. Most of the stuff is American Idol.

Recording the stuff onto Re-writeable DVD so my wife can watch it when she gets home.

I never bothered....don't really know how. I have a Comcast Dual DVR HD box, but never bothered with anything. What do I need to record things? My PC is not really close, so that might be an issue.

Indeed you could get a box to record it there or run a long firewire cable. Or wait for tivo series3.

[obligatory legal comment] Archiving HD movies for your personal collection is a violation of the copyright laws. Although less clear, archiving television programs is also a violation of the copyright laws. Ok, I'll leave now. [/obligatory legal comment]

There is not an FAQ with this ID.

I am interested in what this one had to say. Any other info/links?

Those BetaMaxTalkForum guys need to be alerted of this ASAP.

kthxbye.

lol.

I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls. You do what you want, I'm not going to stop you. I just figured that some people might be interested in the legal implications of their activities. If you don't care that you're violating the copyright laws, then fine. I'm not trying to preach or change anyone's mind - I just thought I would mention it.

edited to add: while I appreciate your reference to Sony v. Universal, the joke fails because that case was about time-shifting, not archiving

Ditto.

I've recorded many things but I don't use a cable box, I have a motorola CableCard, and after a few initial hiccups, it works great. From my aquos tv i have it linked via firewire to my pc. easy stuff. and great quality.

Link?

Because, I don't think that is the case. Taping television shows has been legal since the Sony ruling in the 70's.

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/B/...etamaxcase.htm

Now, downloading, sharing, etc...That is illegal.

Sony has never stood for the proposition that archiving copyrighted material is legal. Indeed, the Court singled out time shifting as distinct from archiving as a fair use. Recording a show for later viewing is, of course, legal. Transferring a tv show or movie from your DVR to your computer or a DVD to add to your collection is NOT fair use. My post was responding to the OP's first post, where he specificially described archiving movies shown in HD. The reason the OP gave (the quality is as good as new HD-DVDs, so why buy them?) is percisely why such copying is not fair use.

There is much misinformation being passed on this topic. As a serious archiver of HD recorded material, I can assure you that the issue of recording this material for archiving purposes is NOT settled in law.

First, the Betamax ruling was indeed only about time-shifting. But the discussions by the justices that lead to the Betamax ruling have been public for many years.

One of the arguments made by Disney was that Sony advocated "librarying" what we now call archiving, and that was infringment of copyright along with timeshifting. When the justices circulated opinions on the issue there was a split. Some felt that librarying/archiving was infringment, while other felt just as strongly that librarying was fair use. A negotiated agreement that lead to the 5-4 support for Sony dropped any mention of librarying from the final decision since no agreement could be reached on this matter. The court could have been explicit about librarying being infringing...instead the court just concluded that time-shifting was non-infringing. The term librarying appears in only one passing reference to a footnote...a footnote that does not exist in the final draft of the decision.

The recent Grockster ruling adds to the confusion. One justice felt archiving was infringing, yet the decision clearly states that some archiving maybe non-infringing.

So...to say that archiving HD material recorded by DVHS ( My method) or my computer is infringing, is absolutely a personal opinion on the law but certainly not settled law.

Three more points, the former FCC chairman Powell publically stated that Tv programs recorded on a TIVO device should allow for platform shifting and that he should be able to share recorded programs with family and friends.
Also the FCC has stated that using a HDDVR to transfer material off to another device ( one copy) for personal use must be allowed by DVR manufacturers. Finally, the folks at my cable company are fuly aware of my archiving and have told me personally that in their opinion, I have the full legal right to do so.

The only reason the question of archiving is not "settled law" is the fact that we will likely never see a test case. Devices that allow users to archive copyrighted materials are the same devices that are protected under Sony for their time-shifting capabilities.



When Sony was decided, the market for pre-recorded movies was nascient at best. Sure, taping a movie and keeping a permanent copy in your library might have been fair use when the only way to view the movie was on tv or your VHS or betamax tape. But look at the market today - there is a HUGE market for pre-recorded movies. I'm sure you're aware that the effect on potential derivative markets is a key factor in any fair use analysis. Here we don't have to consider a potential market, because we have an actual, thriving market.


I agree that format-shifting may be fair use. Indeed, I think it should be. But you are talking about two completely different things. Copying a program from your DVR to your ipod is fine. Copying a program to a DVD-R to loan to your neighbor who forgot to record "24" is fine. But keeping an archival copy of a copyrighted work indefinitely for the purpose of making it a part of your collection is not fair use. To say that it is legal to make and keep a copy of a movie shown in HD instead of buying the HD-DVD is simply absurd. This argument is about as persuasive as saying that, since you rented a movie from Blockbuster, you should be able to make a copy for your collection (of course, this hypothetical ignores the DMCA for purposes of simplification). In the end, there is really no difference between copying a DVD that you do not own and archiving HD material broadcast on television. I don't dispute that this is a controversial area of law. This is precisely why I have attempted to limit the scope of my statements. I will conclude with the following, with which I don't think anyone can reasonably disagree. Making archival copies of HD movies for the purposes of librarying is not fair use. Indeed, it is no different than copying a DVD you don't own. You have a right to record it for later viewing. You can even save it on your DVR to watch it a second time or to show it to a friend. But you cannot burn it to a DVD and put it on your shelf as part of your collection.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I reject the notion that recording HD off of the air is the same as copying a DVD from blockbuster. The DVD contains, in most cases, a variety of content that goes above and beyond the broadcast program. Plus viewing the DVD without a party purchasing or leasing it is illegal. Watching a TV show OTA is free with no legal responsibilites for the viewer. Using a DVD burner to "extend the rental" of a blockbuster DVD is illegal (e.g. watch it two weeks from now and then erase it) but time shifting broadcast is clearly protected. Thus the law treats the original material differently.

Believe it or not the justices in the Grockster case were asked to revisit the Betamax case and address the issue of archiving...they refused to do it in this particular case but said that they were open to looking at this in the future.

Again...archiving is not settled law. Perhaps it will be in the future..for now it is up in the air. All the FCC has to do it shut off the firewire outputs on the DVR's and it is a done deal. Flag everything...that will solve it.

Time will tell...for now I will enjoy my copy of the Masters

They are VERY different. Copying a DVD requires breaking the CSS, which is explicitly a violation of the DMCA. Archiving HD may be illegal (I'll let others worry about that), but it's clearly a different case from DVD copying, which is explicitly forbidden by law.

BTW...for those interested...you're able to burn your HD material onto DVD-R/+R and play it back in the Toshiba.