As everyone probably knows both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in the spec include standards for high definition audio. These two new formats include DobyTrueHD and DTS-HD. Both are suppose to offer even better quality then DVD-A and SA-CD (up to three times as good according to the bits). This is to amazing. If you have ever heard a DVD-A or SA-CD disc you know that the sound is several levels above anything on DVD movies. However there is a problem. Currently there are no recievers capable of reading these discs and even if there were all current HD-DVD players can't output this. Does anyone know exactly when the first HD sound recievers will come out and at what price?

The current HD-DVD players are currently capable of decoding Dolby Digital Plus internally themselves, so you don't need decoding in the receiver. All you need is a receiver with an HDMI or 5.1 analog inputs.

The players will also decode Dolby TrueHD, but only up to 2 channels.

There are no surround receivers with any of these decoders built in because the HDMI 1.3 specification has not been finalized yet and you can't transmit the raw bitstreams of any of these formats without it. HDMI 1.3 is expected to be finalized later this year. Maybe.

The first Blu-Ray players will have neither HDMI 1.3 nor any internal decoders for these audio formats. They will not be compatible with any of these audio formats at all.

Yes but it only outputs doby plus as standard DTS if your reciever doesn't have any doby-plus capability. It only outputs Doby TrueHD has 2 channel LPCM not as Doby TrueHD if you don't have reciever capable of it. Therefore its important to upgrade your sound reciever to get the most out of these new formats.

Both Pioener and Sony say there Blu-Ray players will be able to read DTS-HD and Doby TrueHD. Not sure about Samsung but it will definutly read Dolby plus.

Upgrade to what? No current receiver will decode either. And you would also need HDMI 1.3 to get the signal to the receiver in the first place. Again, maybe later (end of?) this year and that will be a reality.

As JoshZ said, you are pretty much stuck with multichannel outputs if you want the new audio formats. But that is really not all that terrible.

I know no current reciever can decode them but according to the bits recievers capable of decoding them will be out before years end. I am wonder exactly when and what price they will sell for. Sonys releases will use LPCM 5.1. I am guessing that will sound better then dolby plus but inferior to TrueHD. I am also curious at what audio the first Blu-Ray players can output. Pioneer apparently confirmed DTS-HD but said nothing about TrueHD. Only Sony confirmed both both TrueHD and DTS-HD for its player. Samsung at the very least will output dolby plus and LPCM.

Will the Bluray players have the ability to decode the new Audio formats? I know the Tosiba A-1 can decode DD+, but I'm not sure about Bluray.

No, it actually can decode the Dolby Plus as well and output in over the 5.1 analog output. What you are getting to your receiver is the full DD+ sound. If you use the optical or coax connection the bandwith is too limited for this stream so the player reencodes to full stream DTS, but you are losing some of the DD+ sound this way.

Upgrading to a new receiver will only be important to get the new DTS-HD and DolbyTrueHD sound, but this will require a brand new player as well. The same will be true of Blu-ray since they are not shipping with HDMI 1.3 outputs either.

If DTS-HD and TrueHD are a must for you I would recommend waiting for the HDMI 1.3 receivers to hit the market and a second generation player that has HDMI 1.3 as well. I asked about a time table for this recently and all I've heard from retailers is maybe by the end of the year.

I'm really beginning to question whether either of the HD sound formats is going to matter to me anyway. If would be a huge cost increase to buy a new receiver and better speakers, not to mention adding more speakers to my already limited living room space. DD+ works well with my current set up and may be the format I stick with. DTS-HD and True HD are really going to shine for the people with high end home entertainment set ups. People with my budget probably won't be able to afford to get the real benefit from it.

Not the first ones, no. Initial Blu-Ray players will not have internal decoders for any of the new audio formats. On a few select titles (such as The Fifth Element), Sony plans to include uncompressed LPCM soundtracks, which will sound good but take up many multiple times the amount of disc space. Considering that the first Blu-Ray discs will be single layer and compressed with MPEG2, full LPCM audio will probably eat into the picture quality.

The HD-A1 will output full Dolby Digital Plus through either the HDMI or 5.1 analog outputs. It converts the signal to multi-channel PCM, which is uncompressed and has no loss in quality.

Note that since it's the player converting the audio to PCM, this doesn't affect the amount of disc space needed.

Being able to "read" the audio doesn't mean it will decode or output them. The players will read the DD+ or Dolby TrueHD signal and extract the "Dolby Core" (standard DD 5.1) from it. Likewise with DTS-HD.

What a silly statement. So the player can read the audio, but it won't do anything with it? Come on! True, it won't decoded the audio, but it still can send the bitstream to the receiver over HDMI for the receiver to decode.

And HDMI v1.3 is supposed to be finalized this summer.

Blu-ray players are not shipping with HDMI 1.3 so how will they send the HD bitstream? Everything I have read says the first generation of Blu-rays are only going to be able to read and extract the 5.1 core. Giving you basically the same sound as standard DVDs. Only discs with the uncompressed LPCM will give you any advanced sound which gives HD DVD the advantage for the first generation in this area.

Yes, it will extract the core at the higher bitrate, and send that stream across HDMI. You still have the advantage of a higher bitrate than standard DVD.

You're spinning desperately here. I explained in my post that the Blu-Ray players will read the tracks but only extract the DD or DTS "Core" signal, which you choice to snip out of your response. Now that some else has reiterated it, you're trying to pretend that the "Core" signal is just as good as real TrueHD or DTS-HD, which of course it isn't.

HD-DVD players will also extract the "DTS Core" signal from DTS-HD, and will actually decode Dolby TrueHD in full lossless quality, albeit only in 2 channels at current.

Both formats have their kinks to be worked out.

The Core it exacts will be at a higher bit rate than used on DVD. That is an advantage of these new formats. I never said it would be as good at TrueHD or DTS-HD, but it will be better than DD5.1 or DTS which currently exists on DVD.

It will not be superior to DD+ though and that is the one minor advantage for HD DVD. I don't think its much more important than 1080p at this point, but it is worth noting.

I just read on another forum that the Panny BD player is supposed to have HDMI 1.3
and this retailer is listing it as a "tentative" feature as well.

http://www.avland.co.uk/panasonic/dmpbd10/dmp-bd10.htm

Okay, I'll admit I haven't been keeping up very well, and I'm not a big technophile. But this sound thing does concern me a bit.
From the DVDtalk.com review of the Toshiba HD-A1 player:
"HD-DVD offers three brand new audio formats for improved clarity and fidelity in movie soundtracks: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD."
From the Serenity HDDVD review:
"The audio is encoded in Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 format"

But there's currently no player that outputs Dolby True or DTSHD, and no available receivers that can process them?
My reciever can do these: "Dolby Digital EX and Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS, DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete, DTS Neo:6, and DTS 96/24 processing". It does have the 6 multichannel input things though.

Ideally to get the full benefit of these new disks, we'd need to:
* wait for a player that can output/process all of them (Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, and DTS-HD)
* buy a receiver that can process them?
and neither of those things have been released yet?

I understand the concerns, BUT it is good to know that these discs are set up for the future. Not all the hardware is here yet, but it looks like (at least as of now) we will not have to buy another version of the discs.

Its personal choice as to wait for the hardware or go with the trimmed down versions that are more readily available.

Thats a big problem many have. They aquadate Blu-Ray with Sony. Sony is just one of many Blu-Ray supporting studios. Just because Sony uses MPEG-2 doesn't mean the Blu-Ray format will.

5.1 LPCM audio will probably sound superior to Dolby plus that will mean Sonys Blu-Rays will sound superior to most HD-DVDs at the moment.

This is based on?

Just a prediction.

I love SACD, but from what I am reading DDplus will support 7.1 sound through the HDMI and a 3Mbps data rate. Plus DDplus is on every disc. There is no guarantee that every Blu-ray release will have LPCM.

Wow, this is becoming more and mroe confusing....I don't even have a HDMI input on my receiver, no need for it.

So, if you use the OPTICAL output, will it sound less than impressive with HD-DVD? I know I can do 6 channel analog, but that is annoying.

Do you have a non-speculatory link? I've read everything from finished this summer to it'll be the end of this year. And everything from needing new hardware to there is potential it will be firmware upgrade.

All this information is speculation from outsiders. HDMI themselves have said very little that I could find. If you have any link to something the HDMI group announced, I'd love to read it.

DD+ is still compressed. It can't compete with SACD. That's just silly. Uncompressed PCM should certainly sound better than DD+. (as always, assuming the guy who mixed everything did a good job) And Dolby TrueHD is not better than DVD-Audio/SACD, either. Except for the additional channel capability. Same 24/96 potential.