According to the bits DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD can sound as much as three time as good as DVD-A nad SA-CD. My only question for Sony is how the hell they are going to fit two hour movies on 25 gigs with MPEG-2 1080p and 5.1 LPCM. Why not just use a damn advanced codec.

Nope. All speculation.

Looks like both formats will have their things to workout this first generation. Granted once the 50GB discs are easy to replicate (I read in one article they currently have a 75% failure rate) 5.1 LPCM and the HD formats will not be an issue, but down the road if you have a first generation player and they switch to DD and DTS HD instead of LPCM you will be out of luck for advanced sound and stuck with basically better bit rate DVD sound.

There are prices to pay on both sides for being an early adopter. As much as I like the surround sound SACD delivers I have been impressed enough with DD+ to at least be satisfied with it as an alternative with HD DVD and it sucks that Blu-ray isn't offering a mid range codec like that for people that don't need the high end option of HD sound.

75%? That doesn't bode very well. I hope 50GB BDs don't become the next DVD-18. I can just see it now, with dedicated "Universal BD-50 defective disc" threads popping up all over the place.

True, but since most first generation players will be purchased by early adopters, and since most early adopters upgrade as soon as better players are available, I don't think this will be too much of an issue for most of us.

An American company is trying to solve this issue. If so we may get discs made for blu-ray in the US which would be a good thing.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/4/prweb377427.htm
This is true and I will be one to upgrade in a year or two.

i before e except after c ...

Duly noted! Subject line changed.

When DVD launched all the first releases were single layer only. The first dual layer releases came out in fall and the it didn't become commen until fall 1998. History is repeting itself with dual layer Blu-Ray. They are having trouble at first but eventually BD-50 will become the standard.

I am very familiar with the history of DVD, and the introduction of dual layer discs (and some of the initial discs were dual layer, BTW, just not RSDL). What I was referring to was the similarity between the initial problems BD-50 seems to be experiencing and the problems that were experienced when DVD-18 was introduced. Because of the way BDs need to be manufactured, there are far more physical similarities between DVD-18 and BD-50 than between DVD-9 and BD-50.

Yes, the problems with DVD-9 have, for the most part, been eliminated. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for DVD-18. Although the massively high failure rates have been dramatically reduced, they have not been eliminated, as evidenced by the monumental QC problems Universal is having with their DVD-18 discs. My fear is that BD-50 will suffer the same, or similar fate. Perhaps the company darkside mentioned will help overcome the problems, but there is still reason to be... concerned at this point.

I certainly don't want to have every BD-50 purchase I make be a crap shoot, not knowing whether or not I got a good disc until I try to play it.

I agree, but it still is a worry if they and HD DVD try to push triple layers or dual sided dual layered discs. DVD-18 even today is still a very iffy format that most of us dread. I have no doubt they will get the BD-50 thing worked out soon though and I hope the American company can be the one to do it. For HD DVD I hope they just go with 2 discs if they need more than 30GBs and avoid dual sided discs or triple layered discs.

Well DVD-18s problem was that people just hate flippers. I agree. No disc art and having to scwint my eyes to see which side is right they suck. DVD-18s are rare because two DVD-9s are just more consumer friendly nothing to do with BD-50s which problematic purely due to manufactoring issues not consumer issues. BD-50s will probably be ready a good year before Toshiba can make triple layer HD-DVD so I am not worried about them.

Universal's DVD-18s -- as mentioned elsewhere in this thread -- are notoriously unplayable. Yes, there are manufacturing issues with DVD-18s. Maybe not from every replicator everywhere, but there are inarguably problems.

What bits?

I think that's his nickname for The Digital Bits.

I'm more interested in actual bits.

DVD-Audio: 24bit, 96KHz standard. Both 24/192 and 24/48 are also used.
Dolby TrueHD: 24bit, 96KHz.

Neither are ever compressed. There are other combinations in the specs, but they are not used much.

That is not the problem people have with DVD-18s.

Perhaps that is why Universal is only supporting HD-DVD (for now)!

Absolutly nothing to do with it. They are only supporting HD-DVD because they have close ties with both Toshiba and Microsoft so releasing on Blu-Ray would anger two of its closest friends.

You do understand the concept of humor, don't you?

Lizard's joke must have gone over your head.

Anyway, what close ties do MS, Tosh, and Universal have (aside from HD-DVD)? I didn't know the three were generally considered bedfellows.

Universal had a big consumer idea with Toshiba to advertise various electronics products with King Kong footage.

I don't buy it. That gets into a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" question: Did Universal sign on with Toshiba and HD-DVD because they knew several years ago that they were going to have King Kong to promote, or did they decide to do a promotion with Toshiba using Kong because they were already on-board with HD-DVD. I favor the latter scenario.

I suppose the promotion you mention could be a reason Universal was the only HD-DVD supporting studio that didn't also sign on with BD. But it seems a slender thread to use to tie Toshiba and Universal together.

[Back on topic] One of the things I liked about the reports of the A1 users was that DD+ over analog was said to be very good. I thought some said that it was "lossless" but Spiky says here that it is still compressed. But it is still supposed to be better than the other option of full bitrate DTS over digital ports. Have I got that right?

But with BD there there is no equivalent option to outputting DD+ over analog except "LPCM", which takes a huge amount of disc space? Ok, what is LPCM and how is it sent from player to receiver?

Leaving aside HDMI, which my receiver doesn't have and I can't use, what are my options going to be for audio from BD? If they are only equivalent to, or slightly better than, current DVD sound, then that would suggest that HD-DVD is a better sound option for those of us with current generation receivers. Or did I miss something in the discussion above?

I'm using the analog slots with my HD-A1 and it sounds amazing.

Ditto....ill change to HDMI for audio in the future when I upgrade my av receiver...for now, it sounds awesome on my hk av 430.