All he says is, when BD50 is released later this year low yields or not. This is not news to anyone. Several people posted weeks ago that BD50 was supposed to be released later in the year (some speculated it as the reason for Sony pushing back their player) and we all know they have problems with low yields.

Right. I would not expect that dual layer will be the de facto standard for Blu-ray as dual layer is to HD DVD any time in the immediate future.

In technical theory I agree with you. But consider the following:

a) there is a mindset currently at work, both in the minds of content producers and the consuming public, that 2-disc sets are inherently "better" than 1-disc sets (whether that mindset is logical matters not, it is still very pervasive)

b) based on current evidence, the claim that at least a 3.5 hour film can be comfortably compressed onto a 30GB HD DVD and still provide a nearly transparent presentation appears to be valid

c) more recent DVD packaging designs make it possible to store two discs in half the space formerly required for one disc

Given those points, would you not agree that the 50 > 30 argument, for the vast majority of films, has very little real bearing on the outcome of the format war? At best, Sony, et al, can tout the fact that BD can release some special edition on one disc, where an HD DVD version would require two (one for the film, and another for the special features). My hunch is that the general reaction to that pronouncement would be "big deal."

OK why am i being brought into this?

And how can i NOT take offense to that statement???

I agree.

The funny thing is when BD50 discs are finally available (whenever that may be), you just know the studios will still have special edition releases where the movie is on the first disc and the extras are on the second disc anyways. The movie disc probably wont even take advantage of the extra space either.

Not only do I still see many single layer releases today, but I often see 6GB of space being used on DVD-9's. Just because the space is available, doesn't mean the studio's will utilize it.

Another thing to consider is simultaneous releases for both formats (assuming VC-1 and BD-50s are finally used for Blu-Ray). Does anyone actually see a studio doing a seperate compression for each format (one for 30GB HD-DVD disc and the other for BD-50 discs)? I can see them using the lowest common dominator (30GB discs), and plopping that transfer on a BD-50.
The space advantage for possible better picture quality and sound just went out the window.

All of the Sony Blu-ray discs have uncompressed PCM 5.1, and the Samsung player is capable of outputting it over HDMI or 6-channel analog. However, those "uncompressed" tracks have been downsampled to 16-bit resolution from the 24-bit master. In other words, they're a 100% faithful replica of an inferior copy.

You can blame me for that, and I'm sorry. The point I was trying to make is that you are very much pro-HD-DVD (and I am not saying there's anything wrong with that), and you wear it like a badge of honor. Your comments are often lightning rod-like in drawing attention from the BD supporters (whom I generally have no problem with either).

If you made comments similar to Gruberts and just flipped it around, criticizing BD instead of HD, they'd be calling for your ass.

The difference, to me, is that you don't pretend to be impartial when clearly you are not.

Again, I'd love to dig up some of the pro-BD posts I made back in the day. It'd be a hoot for all of those who hate me for my HD stance. However, there's nothing about any of my opinions (and feel FREE to prove me wrong) that is irrational or cheerleading for HD where facts dispute my position. It was only after reality set in that I started to realize the full potential of HD. That and Sony's attitude throughout this has made me sick.

With the initial specs announced a couple years ago, I too was more in favor of BD.

But, after seeing HD-DVD and now feeling that capacity will not be as big of a factor than I previously thought, I am more on the HD-DVD side right now.

ESPECIALLY, since BD is being currenty released with little or no special features (not to mention subpar quality).

This time next year, things could totally change though. We just dont know right now. We can only go by what is happening in the market right now. Relying on promises either way wont get us very far.

Very interesting....BD is not selling out where HD-DVD is....

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/news/...ind_HD_DVD/124

Looks like Lionsgate has more evidence to possibly release on HD-DVD. I hope they do!!

Even more importantly...
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6340369.html
Keep in mind this was June 2. Be interesting to see how things have changed in a month...and with BD having launched.

More HD DVD moves to retail
But in-store efforts still have spotty results

By Susanne Ault and Jennifer Netherby 6/2/2006

JUNE 2 | After a drought, additional Toshiba HD DVD players are flowing to retail.

Because of thin hardware supplies, store merchandising of both hardware and software remains spotty.

However, Toshiba is beginning to ship new players to an increasingly larger pool of retailers on a weekly basis, said company VP of marketing Jodi Sally.

Currently in 3,000 storefronts, Toshiba HD DVD models will be sold in more than 5,000 outlets by year end.

Last week, Thompson started shipping HD DVD players to retail. Similar to Toshiba’s base units, the RCA HDV5000 is priced at $499.

Toshiba has been steering its HD DVD quantities to those stores with hefty consumer electronics departments.

Illinois’ Abt Electronics received 60 units Wednesday of Toshiba’s $499 HD-A1 HD DVD model. The store had been wiped out of the player for much of the past month.

Many electronics chains, including Best Buy and Amazon.com, have been coming up short on HD DVD player supply (VB, 5-22).

Though Toshiba’s Sally said the manufacturer has been shipping out new players each week since their April debut.

“The problem [Toshiba] is having is a better problem than having too much in the market and it not being able to sell,” Abt owner John Abt said. “But from a consumer standpoint, this might not be the best thing.”

Web boards have been flooded with messages detailing problems finding HD DVD hardware and software. One online poster was surprised to finally find HD DVD titles within a Wal-Mart store’s PlayStation Portable film section.

A Los Angeles Best Buy remained out of stock on Toshiba players last week, leaving it unable to correctly show off HD DVD titles in-store. Some software was being sold near the altered HD DVD display area, while other titles were bunched near standard-definition DVD players at the store.

“No one has figured out the best way to do this,” Best Buy spokesman Brian Lucas said. “It’s hard when there aren’t that many titles and the players are in tight supply. You don’t want to confuse consumers needlessly. If you give everything too much play and there aren’t the players, that’s confusing.”

Value Electronics, which sells HD DVD players online and at its Scarsdale, N.Y., store, remains sold out on players despite receiving five “generous” shipments since April, said president Robert Zohn.

Since that bow, Value has sold 2,000 HD DVD players.

“It’s difficult for us,” Zohn said. “We’ve never been in a stock position [with the Toshiba products] where people can call and get [a player] on the same day.”

On a positive note, most of Value’s HD DVD customers are choosing to buy every software title available.

Online retailers are proving some of the hotter spots for HD DVD items. Amazon.com is one of the few major retailers offering a significant promotion of the format. Customers who buy three HD DVD titles in one order, an HD DVD player or an HDTV are eligible to receive 10% off all additional HD DVD title purchases for an entire year.

A similar deal also applies to upcoming Blu-ray hardware and software.

“Amazon has a large early adopter customer base that is quick to adopt new technologies, and this promotion lowers the barrier to entry into new high-definition formats,” said Frank Sadowski, VP of consumer electronics merchandising. Sadowski declined to specify the number of consumers buying into the HD DVD deal, but added, “We are very pleased with the response of our customers, who are clearly interested in building their HD DVD libraries.”

Amazon.com was out of Toshiba HD-A1 models as of Thursday. But the site’s third-party sellers did have quantities available.

Retailers also feel that HD DVD merchandising is crimped by studios switching street dates and/or providing short notice of official title bows.

“Any marketing plans are being done right now by the seat of our pants,” said Terrel Porter-Smith, national video advertising senior manager at Tower. “Until studios get it a little more together and there’s more product out there, we can’t do too much. You can’t ask the stores to put that much effort into it.”

From that article:

What do you say when you're Sony Home Entertainment's worldwide president and you really have nothing positive at all? Here's what...

This was interesting:

Yea, that's encouraging. Sold 2 out of 12... but have backorders for over 2,000 HD DVD players. Wow. And I'll bet at least one of those 2 Blu-ray players is returned, too.

I also wonder if those 2 sold were sold to people who ALSO purchased the A1. I would think some out there would be buying both.

Value Electronics has actually ONLY sold 700 players so far. The rest are pre-orders for units he doesnt have. Again, more BS from HD-DVD's side.

Hmm, 700 HD-DVD sold and 2000 pre-orders versus 2 BD sales...and your point is??

I guess the VP from Tweeter is lying too since he said they arent selling out like the HD-DVD players. Right??

That Video Business site is soooooo biased to HD-DVD.

Where in my reply did i say a word about blu-ray sales? Also, its 2000 TOTAL (700 sold, 1300 pre-order).

...and why are these numbers bullshit?

So... are you trying to spin this as a positive for BR?

Wow. You guys are literally mind blowing. All i did was point out that the article is WRONG. Value Electronics is one of the top (ive seen posts on AVS by the owner saying he is the #1 seller of HD-DVD players) sellers of HD-DVD players in the entire US. Hes only sold 700 units so far. The article is trying to portray that there are way more units in the hands of consumers then there actually is. Thats all i did.

awmurray -

Did i mention BR once? Give it a break guys.

Your quote was that it was more BS from the HD-DVD side. You started this train of replies with that accusation.

As far as the 2000 sold. Who cares? Do pre-orders equal sales? Thats debatable, but definately not an intentional lie.

Its clear that HD-DVD is selling better right now. I guess your just pissed.

I couldnt care less, to be honest. I am seriously tired of argueing with hd-dvd owners, and i just wanted to point out that the article was stating false information which is propoganda for its cause, aka, bs.

Why would he be? Because Sony is going to sweep down from the heavens in November. And then BD will maybe kinda sorta possibly sell.

Well, im not as positive about that as you are....Personally, I think PS3 COULD change this format war in a heartbeat....but, I also think it could be a big failure (at least for BD).

Logically, the PS3 release could go either way....its just gonna depend on those who buy the PS3...will they adopt BD? will they buy enough PS3s and BD media to make a difference?

Still way too many unanswered questions.

Oh...I'm not totally positive either.

I'm not sure where I read it (on this or another board) but a majority of the people said they weren't picking up the PS3 and were instead getting the 360 or the new Nintendo.

Regardless, I still don't think PS3 is going to help (or hurt) BD. I think it's just there. An additional feature. But not very much more.

I could see this ending up with BD being a gaming/storage option and HD DVD being the movie option.

But I could also see Sony staying on track as they are and "buying" the format war.

Found my favorite quote from a Blu-ray suppoter ever: