What does this mean? Kinda like they did when they would put "Ps2 compatible" on some dvds. Yeah, that went over real well. :rolleyes:

Kinda like they told people about the UMD format??

Here are the reasons...

1) They dont have it configured correctly (this is VERY common)
2) They just plain dont see a huge difference in the pq/aq to spend $5-10 more on a BD disc (this will be huge for J6P)
3) The PS3 doesnt perform as well as the standalone players (whether its HD-DVD or BD)
4) The player does not perform well as an upscaling sd DVD player.

Alot of people like things separate (gaming system for gaming, movies on a different player). This is a big deal to alot of people. Why do you think we are so pissed that we have to have HD-DVD AND BD?? We want one player to watch movies on.

Of course, you included this in your question, but another is that they simply dont have an HDTV.

Exactly...and there is no guarantee that the PS3 will be a stellar DVD/BD player. Im almost sure that the standalone BD players will perform better and be easier to use than the PS3 as a player.

Even if the 360 was a great dvd player, I would still use my A1 because it is a good hd-dvd player AND upscaling sd player.

My sentiments EXACTLY.

I have an A1 and will probably get a sammy BD player (but ill wait for the reviews and prices to come down a bit).

The problem with the idea that the PS3 is going to be the game winner for Sony/BR is that is assumes you have already chosen Blu-Ray.

For example, if you've already chosen Blu-Ray (as some have) then you realize that you don't want to pay $1000-$2000 for a player. Solution? Compromise on playback quality and get a PS3 until BR players fall dramatically. These people don't even consider HD-DVD.

But if you are impartial about the whole thing (vast majority of the population) you look to see what the 100-260% premium of a BR deck gets you.... same PQ... similar audio... not much. Solution? Buy an HD-DVD player and save $500-1200.

Most people are not sitting around waiting to watch their movies on a PS3. They want HD content and HD-DVD delivers it in spades.

Most market anylasts expect the Playstation 3 to sell for $500 and have less extras then the premium Xbox 360. The Blu-Ray ability makes the Playstation 3 more expensive the make the 360 was. Beleive me I want it to be as cheap as possible but I don't know is Sony can take the losses that a $400 price tag would give.

I'll add a fifth reason.

Let's say mom and dad own a nice HDTV for the living room. They buy junior a nice brand new PS3 for playing games. However mom and dad want to watch their own TV shows in HD each night when they get home from a hard day at work. So the PS3 is relagated to little junior's bedroom with the 20" SDTV and is never even connected to the family HDTV. The point is that just because people own an HDTV does not mean that the PS3 will be connected to that TV after it's purchased. If it's bought for family gaming or for dad to play that could change but I'm sure many PS3s will be bought to be played in the kid's room where there is no HDTV.

This is my first post in the whole BR/HDDVD debate, but Jimmy makes some great points that people are just dismissing. Lots of people used their PS2's as DVD players back in the day (before cheaper DVD players), and I see no difference with the PS3. If they deliver a PS3 with BR within the realm of XBOX360 pricing (yet a bit cheaper than standalone BR players), I see tons of people buying it for games AND BR playback. And his comments on "PS3 Compatible" on the back BR discs, being right on.

The only thing HD DVD has done (which is HUGE) is beat them to the market. PLENTY of us HDTV folks are waiting this out to see how each does before investing. (Plus I'm into recording HD content myself off the air)

Oops, someone could have at least warned me before I bought my XBox...

I thought the issue was only during the early days of the console when it effect the HD format war? It seems unlikely Sony will be able to supply enough devices to satisfy the initial demand. Of course over time the percentage of the population owning HD TVs will only increase...

Most people probably don't have an inkling this war is even going on, let alone being about to buy a player from either format.

Something else to consider is the average age of gamers these days, and the level of disposable income at their disposal. Posts about consoles being bought for little Timmy and then put away in his room suggest to me that some people are more aware of movie developments than ones in the computer world. Maybe the PS3 will turn out to be a dodgy player, but then again maybe it won't. Considering all the cruddy Chinese DVD players being bought does anyone think it matters how good the performance of this device turns out to be, just as long as it knocks spots off DVD. Times: they are a'changing. Or maybe not.

The Playstation 3s preformance is irrelevent to my question. Even if the Playstation 3s preformance is below any stand alone player (Which is very likely but not certain) it will still provide better quality then even the best DVD player. For example the Playstation 2 was my first DVD player. While the quality sucks compared to what I use today the Playstation 2 was several steps above even the best VCR. If a person has an HDTV and has it connected right they will be blown away by the quality improvement and more likely then not will never want to touch a DVD again. Playstation 2 had a pretty good effect on the DVD market. The rate of growth for the format spiked after the Playstation 2 was released and many people used it as a DVD player for a time despite cheaper stand alone models offering better preformance. Now imagine the Playstation 3 which is actually cheaper then any stand-alone model. Playstation 3 will have a phenominal effect on this war

I don't see much in that review that wasn't brought up by myself and others especially the HDMI issues. If anything the review of the DVD playback is pretty glowing especially through Component. His criticism of the player being slow is true and a complete non issue to people that can wait an extra minute to watch a movie. The control issues may exist, but I have never had any trouble navigating menus with my universal remote. Most of the small quirks he seems hung up on are minor and many may be fixed with a firmware update.

The fact is the player is amazing at playing back HD DVD and as long as Toshiba got that right its a great piece of 1st gen hardware.

an interesting little thing I overheard at Best Buy(summarized) -

BB salesman: its called an HD-DVD player. it has pq up to 6 times better than current DVD.

customer 1: yeah, but its 500.00. thats alot of money for a DVD player. I just bought one last month for 70.00.

BB: well, this is for high def. it has better quality than regular dvd. it will also play all your current dvds too.

customer 1: I still don't see why I should upgrade. the picture doesn't really look that much better. plus they cost more. why should I pay over 20.00 for one when I can buy the dvd for 10.00.

customer 2: yeah, its just a way to rip off the public. they make you think you need all this new stuff and scare you that if you don't upgrade you'll be left in the dark.

BB: again, these offer audio/visual improvements over standard dvd. the films look better than they ever have before. you don't need to buy one. they will continue making dvds for awhile to come. these are just offered for those who want the best picture possible.

customer 1: yeah, I hate that first they get rid of vhs and bring out dvd. there was nothing wrong with vhs other than the fact that they can rip you off more with dvd. now this.

customer 2: yeah, everything is so damn expensive now. I wanted to get a new tv but now I'm being forced to buy one of these new tvs that cost 3000.00 just so I can watch tv. plus my kid wants that new xbox and that costs over 500.00 for it and a game.

customer 1: yeah, I'll pass. I just know that as soon as I buy this new stuff something else will come out and then I'll have to buy more stuff that I really don't need or can't afford.



I so wanted to cut into the conversation and throw in the wrench about Blu-Ray and the PS3 just for a laugh but I had to go. that would have made for a fun few extra minutes. :)

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

It's an enormous stretch to suppose that the PS2 caused the huge success of the DVD format...

Nah it didn't cause DVDs success. Just gave it a little boast. Still I don't think the DVD format would have tooken over as fast without the Playstation 2 and Xbox. They helped sneak DVD into a lot of homes and I am sure the Playstation 3 will do the same thing to an even greater extent.

These formats are headed for niche status and no console is going to change that anytime soon.

I think Sony's in for a rude awakening when they realize how few people are interested in HD, and how much time/resources they've gambled on the format.

I still contend that the overwhelming majority of people who purchase the PS3 will purchase it for games and not care about HD movies. We have to remember, these people just payed big bucks for a gaming console and have to fork over a lot of money for the games. They can't afford to also support a new movie format - especially if they already own the movie on regular DVD. That money would be better spent on games that will offer a much bigger improvement over the PS2 (as opposed to the smaller difference between BR and DVD).

Of course it'll be a while before BR will offer a wide selection of titles, so that's going to limit sales as well.

I don't think so... at least not languish in niche status like LD did.

If it doesn't take off quickly (I think it will especially once one format dies), it will become the defacto standard because eventually prices will fall to the point that only HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players are made. There will be no need for a DVD player because the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player will be backwards compatible.

The disc prices are too low for this not to catch on in the next year or two. Once hardware is very affordable HD discs from one of the two will overtake DVD.

Let's dissect this pablum:

I think this is true. Sony is aiming at the same market as PS2 owners. I strongly feel that 50% of PS3s sold will not be hooked up to analog non HD sets. I think those XBOX numbers are a bit inflated as well.

There is a growing buzz that Sony ain't going to make Christmas in the numbers you mention. I can't site sources, and I'm not citing it as fact. BUT looking at it logically, it seems like it will be difficult for Sony to churn out that many units before Christmas, and keep in mind the number made will be split among the three major markets. PS3 is not going to be a "walk in and get one" item for a long long time. PLUS the latest rumors going around are that Nintendo is going to dangle their system for the bubble with the purchase of four games and a controller. BAD BAD news for Sony and MS should this rumor come to pass.

This is a blatent projection. I have never heard anyone say this thing was a PS3 killer. Most are sort of meh about the add-on except 360 owners who see a potential low cost entry into HD.

I have said again and again, what it comes down to is media sales. Every HD player sold will also sell movies. The same cannot be said for PS3.

I want a PS3, and it will be my player for BR films. But the success of PS3 is so far from etched in stone it isn't even funny. This launch is not the slam dunk many think it will be. Developers are coming out now and saying that PS3 is not noticably better than 360. Of course that will change as the devs learn the hardware, but we all said that about Saturn too. 360 could be very much cheaper than PS3 come Christmas, and stir Nintendo in the mix and it can get very interesting.

Sony may just be overestimating how much people will spend for a video game console. Sure those first untis will be no problem, but look how 360 is starting to sit at such premium prices. The lack of software is also hurting 360 and I don't think that the PS3 will be all that much more innovative than the 360 has been. It will be interesting.

100000% PURE UNBACKABLE SPECULATION!!!!!

Show me some links to back this, your opinion wrapped as fact (your MO).

No one really knows the details of the PS3 launch price.

YOU are hoping it is $500, but there's plenty of buzz saying it will be more. It is all speculation.

This is why no one respects you. You consistently present your biased opinions as fact.

WRONG!!! This is a common revisionist history item that is popping up a lot. DVD players had dropped to well below $300 when PS2 launched, so it wasn't a budget alternative to the DVD format like the PS3 is to BR. It was an excellent bonus feature of owning the system, though.

I paid $160 for my first DVD player long before PS2 came out.

So if Sony bundles Spider-man Blu-Ray with the first 1 million PS3s sold, then it would be the best selling HD title ever by a huge margin. Does that equal Blu-Ray success?

You mean the developer who is making their title for both platforms? And who said their "screenshots" would so no difference? Hmm... same game, same engine, on two different platforms. I wonder why it would look very similar? :rolleyes:

Sony can just mail out a million free discs by that reasoning and win the format war.

I will be glad when E3 gets here so can have some true facts about the PS3.

Didn't Sony throw in Spiderman with the purchase of a PSP?

It may have been considered a big seller then, but the UMD format is certainly a failure.

Not really because it wouldn't be a "sale" of media. But in terms of media saturation, it would certainly help numbers.

I expect studios to be interested to see the ratio of titles purchased:consoles purchased. Like every for every HD-Deck sold 15 titles were sold or for every BD deck sold there were 18 titles sold, something to that effect. If one comes out hugely lopsided in this ratio, it will send studios the message that owners of format "A" spend plenty of cake on media for it, and thus will allocate more resxources to said format.

IMO, the lower price of HD could give them an edge in this category, but it is tough to say.

I know its easy to poke fun at UMD, but most people forget a few facts which make HD-DVD look like shit in comparison.

1) When UMD movies were initially released, two Sony titles hit the 100K unit milestone in one month. To put that in perspective, the first DVD title to reach 100K was Air Force One and it took 9 months to reach it.

2) Paramount pulled back some releases because they were only reportedly selling 50K units per title.

When HD-DVD can move 100K units per month, then an only then can you start calling it a success. The fact that they haven't moved 50K units of any title, or as Paramount would regard - the failure point, doesn't exactly make HD-DVD an outstanding performer. In fact, it looks like a dog compared to the "failed" format of UMD.

That is pretty poor reasoning when there aren't 100K players on the market. If studios start pulling support for HD DVD a year from now like they did a year into the UMD format then I will agree its a failure and the format war is over. However, the HD DVDs are selling well for the number of players available so its too early to expect HD DVD to sell 100K titles.