HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray vs. everything else free-for-all
05-04-06, 07:53 AM
#251
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Additionally, SE re-releases are a way to refresh a product's viability in the market and lure in some new customers, and are often done to fix problems with early releases.
Mny of the SE's we see now are for titles that were released in the infantcy of the format. Wedding Singer is a great example of an early DVD givena little push with a re-release.
Mny of the SE's we see now are for titles that were released in the infantcy of the format. Wedding Singer is a great example of an early DVD givena little push with a re-release.
05-04-06, 08:42 AM
#252
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Anecdotal I know, but still... out of the 50+ people I know who purchase/rent DVDs only 3 of them watch the features.
Outside these forums it's a different mindest for DVDs/Movies. Generally people aren't picky about video/audio presentation, fullscreen is preferred by many, and they dont really care how a film was made and what the director/cast has to say about the experience. They just want to it down and watch the movies.
Outside these forums it's a different mindest for DVDs/Movies. Generally people aren't picky about video/audio presentation, fullscreen is preferred by many, and they dont really care how a film was made and what the director/cast has to say about the experience. They just want to it down and watch the movies.
05-04-06, 09:00 AM
#253
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There have been SE releases of early DVDs but there have been many more for more recent DVDs (see the upcoming Princess Bride re-release). In many cases the audio and video quality is barely touched (and occasionally further compromised) while the extras are nearly always the selling point.
It used to be that all new releases would come out with an SE and simple option, but that is being phased out. Most of the new releases I see in the shops only come in one flavour, though there are still some which buck the trend. As to retailers stocking 75:1 for single disc over the multi disc equivalent: yeah, right! 
None of which comes close to explaining why extras have become so ubiquitous. If you believe the majority of people don't have any interest in them, then why would studios go to all the expense of creating, authoring, and releasing these additional features?
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
Really? Then why does nearly every major release come in two flavors now, a standard version and two disc "SE"? Retailers stock probably 75:1 on these two flavors. When I talk to acquaintances and bemoan the fact that the SE of a given film is $5-10 more the invariably say "I don't care, I just get it to watch the movie."
None of which comes close to explaining why extras have become so ubiquitous. If you believe the majority of people don't have any interest in them, then why would studios go to all the expense of creating, authoring, and releasing these additional features?
05-04-06, 09:23 AM
#254
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Originally Posted by Burnt Thru
If you believe the majority of people don't have any interest in them, then why would studios go to all the expense of creating, authoring, and releasing these additional features?
I think some people do care, but the majority doesnt. I like to say that I buy them for everything (pq, aq, special features, commentaries)....but seriously, I hardly ever use them.
Out of all my friends and family, 95% do not watch the special features. Me and my brother are probably the only ones and we rarely do.
05-04-06, 09:43 AM
#255
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Jim
I agree that the PS3 will increase installed base, but I am sure that media sales are just as, if not more important that deck sales in the early stages.
05-04-06, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Coral
The PS3 being in many homes doesn't mean much if few people are buying the BR movies. The PS3 is a gaming rig and most people will purchase it for gaming. Stand-alone players are the key because when people purchase those, they're purchasing them to view movies.
The PSP sold pretty well but the UMD format is failing.
It's going to be hard for most people who want a stand-alone HD player to justify spending $1,000+ for Blu-Ray when there's a HD-DVD player for $500.
The PSP sold pretty well but the UMD format is failing.
It's going to be hard for most people who want a stand-alone HD player to justify spending $1,000+ for Blu-Ray when there's a HD-DVD player for $500.
05-04-06, 09:54 AM
#257
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Originally Posted by Jimmy 345
UMD is not failing because people don't watch movies on there game consoles. UMD is failing because it was a bad format.
It was a bad idea and I suspect UMD will be gone within a year or 2.
05-04-06, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy 345
UMD is not failing because people don't watch movies on there game consoles. UMD is failing because it was a bad format. Lower resoltuion, less extras, higher price there was no advantage for this format.
You can always follow the money. It always comes down to price. The problem BR is going to have is even if the movies are equally priced (don't know yet) the player still carries a 100-260% premium over the HD-DVD players. So the price to entry is much higher even if the movies are the same price (and they'll have the same PQ, too):
Originally Posted by Betanews
There is much speculation over why the format never took off, but some say an oversaturation of the market could be to blame. Over 200 movies were released in only the first few months of the PSP's retail life, according to statistics. But a real issue among consumers was pricing, with UMD films priced as high, or higher, than DVD versions.
05-04-06, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
UMD is failing because studios are not making money selling them. Period.
You can always follow the money. It always comes down to price. The problem BR is going to have is even if the movies are equally priced (don't know yet) the player still carries a 100-260% premium over the HD-DVD players. So the price to entry is much higher even if the movies are the same price (and they'll have the same PQ, too):
You can always follow the money. It always comes down to price. The problem BR is going to have is even if the movies are equally priced (don't know yet) the player still carries a 100-260% premium over the HD-DVD players. So the price to entry is much higher even if the movies are the same price (and they'll have the same PQ, too):
05-04-06, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy 345
Consumers usually are willing to pay more to get more. Consumers bought DVD even when VHS was much cheaper. They are not willing to pay more to get less as they did with UMD.
BR is only a marginal improvement (at best) over HD-DVD. The biggest improvment being capacity which is irrelevant for movie playback.
05-04-06, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by awmurray
DVD is a vast improvement over VHS.
BR is only a marginal improvement (at best) over HD-DVD. The biggest improvment being capacity which is irrelevant for movie playback.
BR is only a marginal improvement (at best) over HD-DVD. The biggest improvment being capacity which is irrelevant for movie playback.
I dont see a kiddo buying a Bluray disc at a higher cost than DVD just because he can play it in his PS3 (same goes for HD-DVD and xbox360). Both will lean towards those with HDTVs only.
We are in this for the long haul....I dont think either are going away very soon.
05-04-06, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I agree....as ive said before, only a limited market can utilize the improvements of hd-dvd and Bluray over standard dvd.
I've got an LCD projector (1024x768) that I bought a few years ago that accepted a 480p signal and was HD compatible (upto 1080i input). I've recently moved and I'm putting the theater back together in the new place. I'm sure I'll end up spending a few thousand dollars doing acoustic treatments to the room (I've completed the front wall which has already cost around $700-- DIY screen, acoustic treatments and curtains). I've got around $25-30k worth of A/V equipment in there, too.
Please don't think I'm bragging. Far from it. I only say all that to say this:
Even I'm not tempted to buy a BR player. I see absolutely no reason to spend the extra 100-260% on a format that delivers the same thing (from my perspective). I'm looking forward to getting an HD-DVD player soon.
How can BR hope to sway the masses with a much more expensive product? There's a $500 difference that I'm not even willing to pay. If I saw a difference worth $500, I'd gladly pay it. Hell, I'm going to spend well over that on a freakin' popcorn popper for crying out loud.
Last edited by awmurray; 05-04-06 at 12:11 PM.
05-05-06, 02:25 AM
#264
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Originally Posted by RockStrongo
Because alot of them are already made (like HBO docs and so on) and its not that difficult to include them. There is a slight draw.
I think some people do care, but the majority doesnt. I like to say that I buy them for everything (pq, aq, special features, commentaries)....but seriously, I hardly ever use them.
Out of all my friends and family, 95% do not watch the special features. Me and my brother are probably the only ones and we rarely do.
I think some people do care, but the majority doesnt. I like to say that I buy them for everything (pq, aq, special features, commentaries)....but seriously, I hardly ever use them.
Out of all my friends and family, 95% do not watch the special features. Me and my brother are probably the only ones and we rarely do.
While I don't personally watch many special features anymore, it's clear that the Studios haven't ramped up production and inclusion of these extras without good reason. If you look at the advertising (particularly on TV) of a new DVD it will almost certainly use the special features as the key selling point. That marketing isn't carried out by mistake.
PSP movies never made any sense to me. Music is something I can listen to on the move and don't always care a great deal about the quality, but movies are something I prefer to watch in one place, and in the best quality possible.
05-05-06, 10:56 AM
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Blu-Ray Forum Posts
I was reading the forums on Blu-Ray.com. As you can imagine there are some real Sony/BR zealots over there. For example, thre are posts from about 7 months ago declaring HD-DVD dead and predicting that Universal would be forced to support BR, etc.. Funny stuff.
It appears that some panic has set in since HD-DVD is actually available now. Some couldn't believe that HD-DVD players are selling out... they thought Best Buy was just saying that to drum up interest in it.
Here's a funny post from 04-22-2006 (I'm sure you can find others):
Or, how about this prediction:
It appears that some panic has set in since HD-DVD is actually available now. Some couldn't believe that HD-DVD players are selling out... they thought Best Buy was just saying that to drum up interest in it.
Here's a funny post from 04-22-2006 (I'm sure you can find others):
I've seen fights on certain prominent forums over this but the fact of the matter is this:
HD-DVD and its supporters are relying and praying on two things:
1.) Misinformation
2.) Ignorance
3.) "Average Joe/average consumer" (This is downright laughable for anyone that knows the normal cycle of life in consumer electronics.)
They WANT Best Buy clerks, for example, to pass off misinformation because lying and smokescreens are really the only chance in hell HD-DVD has, when you get down to it.
By glowing margins, WELL INFORMED potential customers and early adopters wouldn't touch HD-DVD with a ten foot pole, and rightly so.
I understand and appreciate sentiments like "I want to watch HD now" and that's all good and fine, but it's purely subjective and emotional. When you go past this sort of thing and start getting down to concrete facts, that's when you'll see HD-DVD supporters start throwing around rhetoric and insults, because the facts are so overwhelmingly not to their advantage or to their liking and they know it.
HD-DVD and its supporters are relying and praying on two things:
1.) Misinformation
2.) Ignorance
3.) "Average Joe/average consumer" (This is downright laughable for anyone that knows the normal cycle of life in consumer electronics.)
They WANT Best Buy clerks, for example, to pass off misinformation because lying and smokescreens are really the only chance in hell HD-DVD has, when you get down to it.
By glowing margins, WELL INFORMED potential customers and early adopters wouldn't touch HD-DVD with a ten foot pole, and rightly so.
I understand and appreciate sentiments like "I want to watch HD now" and that's all good and fine, but it's purely subjective and emotional. When you go past this sort of thing and start getting down to concrete facts, that's when you'll see HD-DVD supporters start throwing around rhetoric and insults, because the facts are so overwhelmingly not to their advantage or to their liking and they know it.
And that's when you see the inevitable "average joe customer is going to see this [HD-DVD] at WalMart and watch the sales!" BS.
What fantasy!
What fantasy!
05-05-06, 11:14 AM
#266
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Have to post this one, it's a freakin' gem:
So, even though there is a sum total of zero BR players, HD-DVD still doesn't have a majority of market share with a measly 10,000 units....
And, $500 is just too high a price point... people will wait for the $1000 and $1800 units to arrive...
Highly unlikely. Even at the measely 10,000 units Toshiba managed to squirt out, they are "far, far away donkey" from grabing a majority of marketshare or mindshare for that matter and will be for quite some time (if ever) considering that $500 for just a player will fail to garner mass consumer adoption as it is just to high of a price point.
And, $500 is just too high a price point... people will wait for the $1000 and $1800 units to arrive...
05-05-06, 12:15 PM
#267
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It will be interesting to see if Sony/Pioneer/et al. sells a "measely" 10,000 blu-ray players at $1000 to $1800 a pop during the first couple of weeks of sales. My guess is they do not.
The blu-ray group keep putting all their hopes on the PS3 and I think they are vastly overestimating the impact the PS3 will have on blu-ray on the whole.
Yeah, a lot of people are going to buy the PS3, we know that already, but how many of those will actually have the desire or the technology to take advantage? Not as many as the zealots seem to think, I'd wager.
The blu-ray group keep putting all their hopes on the PS3 and I think they are vastly overestimating the impact the PS3 will have on blu-ray on the whole.
Yeah, a lot of people are going to buy the PS3, we know that already, but how many of those will actually have the desire or the technology to take advantage? Not as many as the zealots seem to think, I'd wager.
05-05-06, 12:23 PM
#268
Most gamers are buying the PS3 for.....games. How do we know they're going to buy BD movies too? If the majority who own a PS3 choose not to buy BD movies since they may likely treat this as a game machine, which most will, it will make Sony's job a whole lot tougher to win the format war. Won't it be difficult for salespeople to push $1000 and $1800 units when you have a $500 unit beside it?
05-05-06, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Most gamers are buying the PS3 for.....games. How do we know they're going to buy BD movies too?
05-05-06, 12:40 PM
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"Are buying the PS3..."? Quite a trick.
I just scanned some of a thread over at AVS that essentially consisted of HDDVD zealots forming a lynch mob to go after Secrets (and Kris) since he brought out several ACCURATE points about how poor a machine the Tosh A1 is.
Lovely groups on both sides of this thing.
I just scanned some of a thread over at AVS that essentially consisted of HDDVD zealots forming a lynch mob to go after Secrets (and Kris) since he brought out several ACCURATE points about how poor a machine the Tosh A1 is.
Lovely groups on both sides of this thing.
Last edited by Spiky; 05-05-06 at 12:43 PM.
05-05-06, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
"Are buying the PS3..."? Quite a trick.
I just scanned some of a thread over at AVS that essentially consisted of HDDVD zealots forming a lynch mob to go after Secrets (and Kris) since he brought out several ACCURATE points about how poor a machine the Tosh A1 is.
Lovely groups on both sides of this thing.
I just scanned some of a thread over at AVS that essentially consisted of HDDVD zealots forming a lynch mob to go after Secrets (and Kris) since he brought out several ACCURATE points about how poor a machine the Tosh A1 is.
Lovely groups on both sides of this thing.
Non sequitur.
An extremely poorly-written review.
05-05-06, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dharding
based on the performance on SD-DVD, in the conclusion he said he "could not recommend the player for HD material."
05-05-06, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiky
"Are buying the PS3..."? Quite a trick.
I just scanned some of a thread over at AVS that essentially consisted of HDDVD zealots forming a lynch mob to go after Secrets (and Kris) since he brought out several ACCURATE points about how poor a machine the Tosh A1 is.
Lovely groups on both sides of this thing.
I just scanned some of a thread over at AVS that essentially consisted of HDDVD zealots forming a lynch mob to go after Secrets (and Kris) since he brought out several ACCURATE points about how poor a machine the Tosh A1 is.
Lovely groups on both sides of this thing.
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=381
05-05-06, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema
Most gamers are buying the PS3 for.....games. How do we know they're going to buy BD movies too? If the majority who own a PS3 choose not to buy BD movies since they may likely treat this as a game machine, which most will, it will make Sony's job a whole lot tougher to win the format war. Won't it be difficult for salespeople to push $1000 and $1800 units when you have a $500 unit beside it?
1. Most Playstation 3 buyers won't have HDTVs.
A poll conducted in January found over 60% of Xbox 360 owners had a digital television of some kind and another 30% were planning on getting one soon. That number can only be higher for the Playstation 3. Besides I am sure some non-HDTV owners will by Blu-Ray to future proff themselves.
2. Unless the majority of Playstation 3 buyers use it as a Blu-Ray players the format will fail.
Sony will have a million Playstation 3s in American homes by years end. With final devolopers kits hitting in June (two months before Xbox 360s did in 2005) they should be able to make this goal. HD-DVD will probably have around 200,000 units if you count Xbox 360 add ons (before you go on about me making up numbers thats considered to be an optimistic estimate. Most say only 150,000). Do the math only a small fraction of Playstation 3 owners need to use its Blu-Ray ability. Just because they buy the thing for games doesn't mean thats all they will use it for. If a gamer buys a Playstation 3 for games and then has the choice of buying a new movie he wants in DVD or Blu-Ray why won't he pick Blu-Ray.
3. Xbox 360 add on makes Playstation 3s Blu-Ray ability irrelevent.
The Xbox 360 HD-DVD add on will probably provide a slight boast for the format however console add ons have a history of selling low and the add on can't compete with have Blu-Ray natively instaled in every Playstation 3.
Playstation 3 will have a tremendous effect on this war. Even if HD-DVD does outsell Blu-Ray in stand alone players (Which even I will admit is possible) they will never outsell the Playstastion 3. Playstation 3 is Blu-Ray garuntee for success.