And as I said, they're part of the the BDA's board of directors as well, which is also a "pretty strong stance." In other words, their "stance" on formats is pretty equal when looking at membership. Hell, Sony's stance is equal when looking at membership.

No, as you quoted I said it would "almost have to be a Universal release." And I still haven't heard a compelling argument for why any other studio would be so inclined to give away an HD DVD. All the other studios are either BD exclusive or are playing both sides of the field, with little interest in helping only HD DVD to "win."

I dont understand what "free" has to do with anything? Im not saying Peter Jackson OR Universal is doing this for free. They both have interest in this. I dont discount that.

Im just saying that Jackson's relationship with Xbox could have been the factor driving HIS film being released with the addon drive.

For all we know, HE made the connection and got Universal to do this. None of us knows! You dont either! That was my point.

Yes, its a guess, but Premiere magazine named him the most powerful person in Hollywood, so I think my guess is a pretty safe one. :rolleyes:

Really, do you have proof that it would have been a universal release? Please, link us. You like to throw out things as facts, but they are really just your opinion.

Uh, no...that doesnt make sense....I dont know of a relationship between Raimi and PS2...if there is one, please enlighten me....There IS one between Jackson and Xbox as displayed yesterday.

Now your just proving my point. In my original reply to your post, I offered another way that this promotion could have come to fruition without it being totally a Universal versus BD argument (which is basically what you were saying).

Um, if MS paid them.

None of us know how much if anything Universal and Peter Jackson are getting for doing this.

Its very likely that this relationship was the easiest and most logical, but thats not to say that had it not happened, MS could not have gotten WB or Paramount to do the same.

For you to say so is pure speculation.

Jeez... let me think

Marketing Exposure and Free Publicity

Maybe Universal wants to go after another target market (video gamers) and get them to buy...well.... more Universal products.

I preordered it from EB just now, pretty cheap shipping

The only studio that's Microsoft-averse is Sony, for obvious reasons. Microsoft, through its Xbox Live Marketplace, offered free downloads of movie trailers by Buena Vista, Warner Brothers, Paramount, and Lions Gate.

That's right. At least as I can remember, there's been no Microsoft downloads of any Universal movies.

Free, or at a significant discount, it's the same idea at a different degree. In either case, Universal is the most inclined out of all studios to do such a discount, just like Sony Pictures was with the PSP.

And that doesn't discount anything I said about Universal being the one most inclined to participate in the promotion.

While it's true that it's unknown what really occurred, your scenerio seems much less likely to be true. How would Jackson force Universal to participate?

A ranking in an entertainment magazine doesn't prove that he has the capability to strongarm Universal into doing anything.

Of course they're opinions, that's obvious.

What doesn't make sense is suggesting a studio would participate in anything unless it was in their best interest. Universal perticipated because it's in their best interest for HD DVD to suceed over any other HD format. No other studio can say the same.

Between Jackson and Microsoft, in relation to Halo. But there's just as equally a connection between Universal and Microsoft in relation to the Halo movie, plus the connection Microsoft and Universal share in both backing HD DVD heavily. Of those, the connection concerning HD DVD would seem to be the strongest in concerns to this promotion.


I don't see how providing a hypothetical alternative is proof that the hypothetical was just as likely to occur. In fact, my hypothetical pointed out that promotion of King Kong in their presentation is much more likely because it's the movie they're giving away rather than any behind-the-scenes collusion with Peter Jackson.

Thank you.

It depends on what you mean by "the same." If MS is paying wholesale for these releases, or even if it's getting just a volume discount, I'd say the likelyhood of other studios doing the same would be equal. However, considering that this is an entirely free promo on Microsoft's part, I don't think it's a stretch to assume that they wanted special discounts for the title. Universal's the studio that's most inclined to do that, and WB and Paramount are exponentially less so given their stance on supporting both formats for profit instead of supporting only one format to help it "win."

Then why aren't studios chomping at the bit to give their movie away with the PS3? Why aren't more studios giving away an HD DVD with the 360 drive? And do you honestly think King Kong needs more exposure and plublicity?

Anybody that buys the 360 HD DVD drive is doing it for the express purpose of watching movies, because that's all it's good for. It's not going to grab just "gamers," because they aren't going to buy a $200 accessory they don't need to play games.

That would make sense if most people were really aware of studios in relation to the movies they watch. I doubt giving King Kong away is going to induce most consumers to buy a title from Universal that they otherwise wouldn't have. People will buy the movies they want if they're available.

This isn't a Microsoft issue though, it's a HD DVD issue. No matter how chummy Fox and Microsoft are, the odds against a free Fox HD DVD having been included are astronomical.

No... Universal HD-DVD wants more exposure and publicity. Like I said... they are going after a new target market- Video Gamers.

Honestly... we don't know if more studios tried to have their DVDs bundled with the 360.

As far as the PS3 is concerned.... why would Sony even let any other studio, but themselves... bundle films with the PS3.

It still remains to be seen, whether or not Sony will bundle a film.

Are you sure about that?

...because at this time the general pubic probably knows shit when it comes to HD/BR and they'll probably know less about studio support.

By including Kong... it automatically informs the general public.

HD-DVD exists.
Universal Studios Supports HD-DVD
Buy Universal HD-DVDS to play on your new XBox-360 HD-DVD drive.

nuff said.

True. Very true. 99% of the people have no idea about the technical differences between HD DVD and BR, and they know even less about studio support.


Yes, no, no. More like:
HD DVD exists.
King Kong is an HD DVD.
You can use the XBox360 HD DVD drive to play King Kong and other HD movies.

Ok...im not getting dragged into this anymore.

When replying to your suggestion that Universal is the only studio inclined to do this, I was just offering another potential angle. I was not saying that it was DEFINATELY how it happened.

There are many, many factors that could be overlooked. I was pointing that out. No one on this board is an insider and knows for sure. You included.

Im being flexible and saying that I dont know how this happened. I dont think ANYONE can just flat out say that it was because Universal wants hd-dvd to win and thats why they were chosen.

WB wants hd-dvd to be successful too otherwise they would not be releasing titles. I would not have found it odd that MS gave Batman Begins, Superman Returns or MI3 in this deal.

Ok...so are you saying that Peter Jackson is NOT one of the most powerful people in Hollywood (if not the most)? :rolleyes:

He has influence. Thats the safest assumption in this thread. Speilberg does the same thing.

I dont know why you are arguing it.

But they're not going after a "new" market. Anyone who buys the HD DVD drive is interested in movies, so it's not like they're reaching this untapped resource of gamers who aren't interested in HD movies, because that demographic isn't going to buy this accessory.

If they had tried though, what stopped them from succeeding like Universal?

Why not? If it was free or at a substantial discount, the promotional movie would help sell their system. The free disc helps sell the system or accessory much more than it helps whatever studio the free disc comes from.

True, but what are the odds that a free disc would come from the following studios: Sony, Fox, Disney, Warner, Paramount, Universal? If you took out Sony, which would be the next most likely studio to agree to a promotional release of one of their films with the PS3?

The problem is that the alternative angle you provided seems so much less likely, and you haven't even provided what I feel is sound reasoning for it being likely at all

Who said they were chosen? I was just saying that of all

There's a difference between thinking something will be successful and wanting it to be successful. When Warner switched from HD DVD exclusivity to also announcing support for BD, it wasn't because Warner wanted both formats to succeed. Rather it saw BD as being valid competition and had good potential to succeed. Right now, WB is decidedly not picking sides, and it has much less vested interest in HD DVD succeeding than Universal does. If HD DVD fails, WB already has releases in BD and has many more planned. Universal, on the other hand, will have to start back on square one, and at a clear disadvantage to all the other studios that supported both.

Do you think it was even remotely as likely though?

No, because he's not in Hollywood, he's in New Zealand. ;)

Seriously though, the "most powerful people" lists overinflate the power one person has on the industry. Because as "powerful" as Jackson is, he can't greenlight a picture at Universal. He can't dictate when and how his films are released, although he can make suggestions. His "power" is mostly by inference. He can't force any studio to make a movie that he wants, although most studios would be interested in working with him based on his current successes. Likewise, he can't stop a studio from making a film. If MGM can't get Jackson to helm their planned films of The Hobbit, they'll be dissapointed, but they'll likely still make the films.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how much power you think Jackson has in the industry and how much influence he has with certain studios, and I still can't see him being the most likely reason why Universal chose to include one of their HD DVD titles with the 360 drive. I can see him influencing which title was chosen, but not the overall decision of including one.

Speilberg does what exactly? What's this "same thing" you think Jackson and Speilberg can and do enact? Getting their films released as promotions for a video-game accessory?

To you it sounds less likely, but my speculation can hold just as much water as yours. Your opinion is just that, yours.

Im saying that you could be right and/or I could be right or we both could be wrong.

I dont see why this is even pertinent. WB is in the hd-dvd game and wants it to suceed. I dont know why you are bringing BD into this at all. Xbox's release of the 360 addon has nothing to do with BD.

They very likely could have made a deal with one of the other studios to purchase a title at a discount to include with the xbox. But, Im sure many factors led to Kong being that title instead (Jackson's relationship with Xbox being one of them and/or Universal's ties to hd-dvd).

Yes.

Ok, I guess your not understanding this so ill approach it another way. So, when New Line enters the game, do you think they can just release Lord of the Rings without Jackson's approval? I dont think so. He has alot of influence with them.

Same thing with Speilberg and his films with Universal and Paramount (I have no idea about the Dreamworks titles and his deal with those). Everyone knows we probably wont see his movies on hd-dvd or bd anytime soon. Why? Because he probably wont allow it until he wants them released. He has that kind of power. So does Jackson now.

As far as this deal, it wouldnt surprise me if when MS was signing Jackson to his deal (for Halo), that they floated the idea of including Kong (or one of his movies) with the 360 addon. He says, hmm, that sounds like a good idea, lets get Universal involved for Kong.

My hypothetical is just as valid as yours. Is it true? Who the hell knows.

That's an incredibly wishy-washy statement. It adds pretty much nothing to the discussion. Either you think my opinion is most likely incorrect or you stop arguing with me. While I acknoledge that your theory could potentially be correct, I don't think it's probably correct.

There you go again assuming the WB wants HD DVD to succeed. I haven't seen them do anything other than release films on the format that would promoted the format. Even if they do want it to suceed, there's nothing to indicate that they favor it over BD, or would sacrifice sales of their discs to include it in a free promotion.

Beause studios who support both are much less likely to take sides, like including a free HD DVD in with the 360 drive.

Are you suggesting you don't think BD will be affected at all by the release of an HD DVD drive for the 360?

It's possible, but not as likely.

So you're agreeing that these other factors potentially made King Kong a much more attractive deal to MS, leading to it being the release over other releases from other studios. Or in other words, the factors, including Universal's ties to HD DVD, made King Kong a much more likely candidate than other titles from other studios.



Yes.[/QUOTE]

I think this belongs in the "duh!" category. Is it even an argument that WB wants HD DVD to succeed??? Of course they want it to succeed. They wouldn't pour millions into producing HD DVDs if they didn't want it to succeed. By succeed, I don't mean dominate over BD; rather I mean do very well as to increase the market size. The better HD DVD format does, the more HD DVDs WB can sell (and the same applies to BD). It's all about making more money.


Do we know that Universal is giving those HD DVDs for free? Then your point has a little more merit. In all likelihood, they're still profiting from the discounted sale of the movie to MS. And if it were WB doing the promo, the same would apply. I don't think this is taking sides. This is doing business.

Yes, I think they can. Jackson has no veto on the release.

He has influence, but not control, and that influence will only go so far, both in what it can affect, and in how Jackson would use it.

For example, The extended cuts of the LOTR films have been released on DVD twice. In one instance, the film was split over two discs. In the other, the film was split over two sides of the same disc. Now PJ probably has a preference on which type of splitting he prefers, but New Line chose to ignore that preference for one of the release, and Jackson probably didn't make any noise about it.

So Jackson has influence, and New Line will allow Jackson to have some say in a future HD release of LOTR out of interest in continuing to work with PJ, but if push came to shove, New Line could do whatever the hell they wanted with LOTR.

No he doesn't. He can't stop Universal or Paramount releasing films of his that they own whenever they feel like it. His power is influential, not absolute. Now, studios would be stupid to alienate Speilberg over a home video release, but influence over one's titles only goes so far.

That's possible, but then you point out the critical part at the end: Universal would have to be involved. So even if it started with Jackson, it ended with Universal and not Jackson, since he can't create such a deal for Kong by himself. In this case, Universal had the veto, not Jackson.

It's equally valid in that yes, it's also a hypothetical. But whether it's as likely is up for debate, and where I disagree.

Hey man...all im doing is adding that your opinion is not the only scenario. I do think your scenario is possible (just not as much as you).

This is a discussion board though and just because someone has a differing or alternative opinion doesnt mean you should get bent out of shape.

NEWSFLASH!! WB DOESNT WANT HD-DVD TO SUCCEED! :rolleyes:

I dont know why you think its taking sides!?! Dont even focus on BD, we are talking about HD-DVD...For all we know, WB could be trying to get Sony to include Batman Begins BD (or another title) in with the PS3. That just means that they want their PRODUCT to succeed.

WB probably wouldnt care if BD and HD-DVD survive together for life as long as their titles sell and make them money.

Sure it might. But, you make it sound like the sale of an hd-dvd addon means one less BD sale. Your focusing way too much on BD for a hd-dvd addon drive.

This doesnt have to be a war. People can buy both. I very likely will.

Yes, im saying that is possible. Im saying that the relationship with Jackson/Xbox could have been the driving force also (imo, thats just as valid). Or both are right.

I just think its shortsighted to say that its completely due to Universal's ties to hd-dvd. We just dont know.