Ok, I have an older Mits 55" TV. It only has component inputs, so I know that I'm a bit screwed when it comes to HD-DVD. I have a 26" LCD with HDMI/DVI and more inputs....but that seems pointless, since it's my PC monitor/spare TV.

Is there any benefit getting a HD-DVD player and only have a TV that does 480p/1080i?

Duh. Of course. As long as it can accept HDMI.

Didn't many studios say already that initially they aren't going to block HD via component inputs? I thought for sure that was announced w/ the HD-DVD players.

Isn't HD-DVD/BR supposed to look BEST when it's in 1080P. I'm just curious how better it will look when compared to my DVD player now. I might get a PS3 since I have almost $400 in credit at GameRush, but it would just be a backup system really, sicne I like my 360.

1080i blows away anything i can see on DVD.

I can't even imagine 1080p.

Having seen a demo (which i think was 1080i), I'm salivating over an HD format.

What is it about 1080p that makes it so much better than 1080i?
I know that one is progressive and the other interlaced, but i never realized there was a signifigant difference between them.

You seem to be a little confused. 1080i is HD. Both HD-DVD and BR will initially not support 1080p, just 480p/720p/1080i. Both formats should work, intiially, over component cables.

I think what you're worried about is the ICT flag, which will disallow HD over anything but DVI/HMDI. Both HD-DVD and BR will not be using the ICT flag on their initial discs. They might at some time in the future, but not on the first discs coming out.

So, HD-DVD and BR should work, in glorious 1080i HD, on your 1080i set using component cables. At least until the movie companies screw you over at some point in the future.

Yeah, that is what I'm worried about....I only have component inputs and I would love to upgrade, but it's still a bit pricey right now. I'll stick to my DVD and hopefully someone will win the war.

Actually the initial Blu-Ray players will support 1080p. But you are right about Toshiba's HD-DVDp, the players will require a firmware upgrade to get to 1080p. At least last I heard, Toshiba claimed all the players would need is a firmware upgrade.

All the discs are 1080p from day one, of course.

OP: have you seen any HDTV on your set? I have a 720p LCD and OTA HDTV is simply stunning at 720p. The difference (improvement) over DVD at 480p is very impressive. I'm going to get a next-gen player when they lower the prices some. Even using 720p, I'll happily take the leap for now.

Have you seen the difference between progressive and interlaced DVD? 480p looks MUCH better than 480i. And that is with the player extrapolating the missing lines. 1080p will likely look vastly better than 1080i (though I have never seen the former in person).

I think that was speculation based on the fact that there's a "1080p" option on the display, but I don't believe Toshiba has said anything one way or the other about it. (Could be wrong, of course.)

Not all of them.

Directed towards the original question...

Are they screwed?

Unfortunately, yes they are. Maybe not right now. But, in the next year or two they definately will be.

Not all hope is lost though. I am sure "flag free" players will be provided some day; Just as "region free" players are now.

I have 720P and I am even screwed. Just not as bad as I was fortunate enough to get an HDMI connection. I purchased in late 2004.

So these discs should all be 1080p compatable - it's just a question of whether your tv and player are?

And if I were to get a new HDTV sometime next yr (or now) I wouldn't have to worry about compatibility issues with this stuff - right?

Ironically, I think its the fact that there is competition that the ICT was diabled. If either BR or HD-DVD win, then they can turn that ICT back on without worrying that someone could take aware buyers because of the "lack" of that "feature".

HDTVs to properly handle the 1080p from Blu Ray players are a rarity even now because of the constant changes to the HDMI format and cost cutting by TV manufacturers. Almost all of the current 1080p TVs will only upconvert the 1080i signal from Blu Ray.

Honestly 1080i looks pretty nice so missing out on 1080p for a few years is not a concern as an HDTV upgrade for me is years away. That is one of the reasons Toshibas launch players not supporting 1080p is a complete non issue. There are no TVs to hook them up to so why bother right now. By the time a 1080p HDTV that supports it is affordable a player upgrade will probably be pretty cheap as well.

However, I will say that I am sure a properly displayed 1080p signal will look better and eventually it will be something we all want when the cost balances out with the difference in picture quality. I'm currently enjoying how much better my regular DVDs look upconverted to 1080i with my Denon so I'm definitely getting excited about true HD DVD.

The Samsung does. Link

The Panasonic does. Link

The Sony does. Link

The Pioneer does. Link

I don't think I'm missing any of the initial players and these all do play 1080p from day one.

The upcoming HDMI "upgrades" are supposed to be upgradable by firmware. I don't think there is a reason to (yet) speculate that today's (few) 1080p displays won't be able to display native 1080p.

Looking at this mathematically...

1080i = 1920 x 1080 / 2 = 1,036,800 pixels

1080p = 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels

But isnt the big difference in the way it draws the picture. 1080i draws the odd lines, then the evens. While 1080p draws them in all in a row (interlaced versus progressive). But you're still seeing the same number of pixels. 1080p doesnt have twice the info of 1080i.

D

I'm getting all confused (maybe I don't know what I'm talking about)...

Right, so you are getting half the pixels at any given time, no? If you have every line on every frame (versus every other line on every frame), you'll have twice amount of information, right? Same picture size, but you still have half the pixels devoid of information on the interlaced picture.

Now more confusing, the wiki entry for progressive scan says:

Where does 0.6 come from?

In a mostly static image, you would more than likely not be able to perceive any difference at all between 1080i and 1080p, so just counting the number of pixels with each refresh isn't always representative of what you're actually seeing. Quick motion (like a football player darting across the field) is where the difference between the 'i' and the 'p' really come into play.

Likening 1080i to 540p is not accurate. Same bandwidth but a very different image.

Ok, so I shouldn't bother then with HD-DVD with my TV, correct?

My question is this: Once we move to 1080p it will be a nice improvement. But are we close to reaching a point where a higher resolution is not distinguishable by the human eye? I guess my question deals with how high will we go or will it change entirely in the next generation from a certain number of lines to something entirely different?

Just curious.....

Try this:

1920x1080p @ 24Hz = 49,766,400 pixels/second
1920x1080i @ 60Hz = 62,208,000 pixels/sec

So actually, there is more data being put on your screen with native 1080i than 1080p. However, progressive looks better, smoother. Esp on repeating patterns like a rooftop when the camera pans. And 1080p matches the framerate of film, so that should get rid of the interlacing/deinterlacing artifacts we have with 480p DVD.

Now, I believe some of these 1080p TVs are actually using a rate of 60Hz, not 24. Which would be 1920x1080p60 = 124,416,000 pixels/sec. That would be double the rate of 1080i, but the discs are not stored in this format. So they will have to do some sort of 3:2 analyzing, like progressive DVD does now. But that should be easier, and look better, than 480p since the discs will be formatted in (essentially native) progressive format.

DJ,
For your TV, you should definitely bother with BD/HDDVD. Maybe not first generation, since that looks ugly in both camps, and expensive. But, unless the ICT issue changes dramatically for the worse, I'd not worry about it. I mean, 1080p would be better, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the discs with your 1080i TV until you choose to upgrade. If HD television looks better than DVD to you, HD discs will be awesome.

There are scientists on both sides of this theory. And supposedly 1080 HDTV is around the limit of our eyes, and that was the purpose of choosing this resolution. But I think there were other factors in play that mattered more, like the fact that 1920x1080i60 JUST fits into a 6MHz broadcast TV channel bandwidth with current compression rates. I think the whole deal about 1080 being the limit was some internal marketing someone made up. It really depends on your distance from the TV set, too.

I think we can perceive a certain resolution ON AVERAGE. But there are moments when you will see more or less, esp when watching motion pictures on a big screen. If 1080 was the average limit of our eyes, you'd still be able to see more for certain scenes or moments when you move your eyes just right or when your brain is less tired. That's why film still looks better, and more resolution would always be welcome. Besides, distance to the screen and pixel size is a huge factor. Ever looked close at a poster-sized photo? Most look horrible within 2 feet, even if they come from film or a serious high-rez digital camera.

Personally, I am looking forward to 4K PJs and media that will undoubtedly come someday. Might be decades away, but I'm still interested.