elektra

Hi Geoff,

I wanted to provide you with some information that has been floating around in my head. Why should I be the only one tortured?

First, I do want to say I like it here. This is the ONLY place that I post to on a regular basis. There are three other sites I post to on occassion, but two of those are for my art stuff and don't really count. I don't have the discussions there that I do here.

Second, I can only guess at what it takes financially to keep this place afloat. I have no grasp of the particulars, so I really don't know what it all means. I know what it takes mentally to keep this place running, which means your just as nuts as we are! [said with tongue planted firmly in cheek]

I like the community here. I have to say I like most of the people and the mods/admins do a really good job.

Although I am tickled that the site is free, I am happy to consider paying to come here, if it means no pop up ads. I really, really dislike them. They are evil. They are worse than telemarkters, because I can avoid telemarkers by letting my machine pick up the phone; or I can choose the pleasure of hanging up on them.

Now, I know I can install a pop ad killer, but I was reading at one point that Pop Up Killer doesn't work with XP (which I now have) and some of the replacements for it can cause issues. I am keeping an eye open for one that I can install.

Here's my thing. Ads don't work on me. No matter how cool or slick they are, if I'm not interested in the product, it's wasted on me. I won't buy it or even be tempted. I find them annoying. Commercials are for going to the bathroom, folding laundry, whatever.

If you were to tell me that if I click on ABC things once a day, you get xyz money, I can do that. I don't mind. If you were to tell me that it only works if you go to the site and buy things, then we have a problem. I don't buy much on line anymore. WalMart and BJ's prices are so close to online, that it's simpler to just buy it in person. So, most of my DVD purchases are made in store. And they are few and far between at the moment. If you were to tell me that if I let one pop up ad come up every 12 hours and you get money for it, that's fine too. I can live with that. If I have to buy something from them for you to get money, again, there's a problem.

I am open to help you out as much as I can, to keep the site free. I do appreciate you putting this altogether and letting come play in you yard. However, if it comes down to pop ups or paying, I'll consider paying.

Thanks for listening.

[edited to add - if you don't mind, I'd like to run this in Other as well]

cartman

You kow, I should stop assuming any thread directed toward a "Geoff" is inteded for me. Anyway, I've been using Pow for about a year now, and it's worked perfectly. One click, and any given popup is automatically closed whenever it occurs. It's fully customizeable using '*' triggers, so no more x10 or geocities or whatever ads once theyre included.

kilcher

Sorry but this is a pet peeve of mine. Isn't it a little rude to use this board to publicly discuss ways to deprive this board of revenue?

X

That was my exact thought when I read that too. Anybody reading a bit here should know why it's being done and the reasoning behind that difficult decision.

The Antipodean

I have to admit I'm a little fuzzy on the whole pop-up concept... just wondering, how does DVD talk get paid? Every time a pop-up opens on someone's screen or only when it's clicked on? Is it like a penny a click or what? Just curious. Never really thought about how all this stuff works before.

Jackskeleton

I agree, a pop up ad isn't as bad as having the server crash and losing post. I say let there be pop up ad's. I have no problem kicking them closed. they are not "bad" pop up's where they give you a tough choice or are sneaky on how they are suppose to close. in my book, aslong as it keeps this place alive, I will not question anything mangement decides to do.

How bad would it have been if you had to pay for a subscription to the place? I say be thankful it's just a pop up ad here and there. if it was a paid subscription, I don't know how much of a community will be left. most people don't want to be charged for stuff

but like telemarketers, you can easily "hang up" on these annoying things by clicking them closed. takes a second of your time and if it doesn't work for you, fine. but the ad's are paying for the site everytime they are up. so it is justification enough for me.

BlondScrnwriter

I totally agree. It's hard work running a site and I suppose more than a few people think that it should be done for free.

elektra

I wasn't looking for suggestions for software. If I had been, I would have posted in a different forum or elsewhere in the universe.

I was hoping for some clarification on how these work and I was trying to explain my position to Geoff. Does he get money just for letting them pop up? If so, once every 12 hours isn't bad. Does he only get money if they're clicked on? Again, if so, once every 12 hours isn't bad again. Does he only get money if we click on it then buy something? Then I'm not providing any help for him, read above. Until there is any clarification, I don't know how much help I am. I did make a donation via paypal because I hate pop ups and pop unders.

elektra

I'm not against supporting the site. Given my druthers I'd rather pay an annual fee than have pop ups.

renaldow

Hmm.. turn off java script and no pop ups. Case Closed.

elektra

I don't want to turn it off. Case not closed.

Boot

I can't say for sure, but my guess would be that the site does make money with the pop ups regardless of whether you click on them at all. It seems to me that it's just like advertising on tv in the sense that it's an ad that's being delivered to all who frequent the site, and the clients will pay a certain amount to have it delivered, whether as a banner, a pop up, or whatever. I would think the advertisers pay a certain fee to run an ad for a certain time in a certain form. Beyond that, I would guess that the site might make incentives when a user clicks through and ultimately buys something from an advertiser. So in essence, you are probably supporting the site by simply visiting it and accepting the advertisements. I fyou use the ads or the links to click through and patronize the establishments, then you're supporting the site even greater.

Hopefully Geoff will stop by and clarify whether I'm right or not. Personally, I haven't found the pop up ads to be a problem. I've never gotten more than two each time I visit the site, and Geoff is very conscientous about them and uses them conservatively. I usually just glance at them and close them. I haven't clicked through one yet altough I do use the links when I plan to buy something from an advertiser's store.

BlondScrnwriter

Yes, pop ups make money each time they load. Usually on a unique IP, but as most people surf behind proxies, it's hard to tell when a visitor has already visited the site. A lot of companies reset every 6, 12 or 24 hours so even if you got one your last session, another pop would still count. If the site went to one every twelve hours, I'm certain they would lose not some revenue, but lots as the software couldn't tell who was new and who was not.

I don't mind the pop ups. Multi-pops are a little annoying, but single pops are completely understandable.

elektra

Which is pretty much what I said initially.

Original Desmond

i'd happy to have pop ups from Geoff if it supports dvdtalk

twikoff

Ive got no problem with him
hell, half the 'major' sites I hit on the internet, have them anymore

although, if people are willing to pay a subscription rate instead of seeing them.. why not get one of the many great coders that visit this site to write up a script that would allow you to log in to avoid pop ups and such for these people?

elektra

I really don't surf the net too much anymore because of them. I go to a few select places and that's it.

GeoffK

Sorry it's taken me a while to respond. I had written a pretty extensive response which got nuked because I clicked on a link in one of my emails (yep it was a report to mod....)

First off, let me say THANK YOU, I do really appreciate you posting your thoughts and feedback. As I've mentioned before I am no fan of pop-up ads, I regret my decision to run them on the site and it's been a very painful experience with many unhappy members.

The key issue is that the majority of people who come to DVD Talk do not want to pay for it. I understand where they are coming from afterall the Internet still feels like it should be free and if everyone had to pay for every site they used it would be a royal pain. So what we have is a space where we need to turn to advertisers to basically pay for the 'subscription' people have to our site. It's not an unreasonable thing to do, it's how broadcast TV has worked for many many years.

Having said that, the ads which run on the site become in lieu of payment. Meaning, rather than digging into your pocket to pay for your use of the site, an advertiser is. Using ad blocking software or pop-up killers really does mean that someone is taking a 'free-ride' on the site and effectively blocking the very thing that pays for their use.

But I can understand where people come from. Heck I have a Tivo at home and use the commercial skip all the time.... The big difference is DVDTalk.com isn't NBC or CBS or owned by some huge company, it's an independant site, built from the ground up by a small group of people and run on such thin margin that sometimes scares the crap out of me.

So all I can do is ask members for support, go out there and find great companies with great products and get them to advertise on our site and carefully balance the needs of our members with our need to pay for the site. It's a careful balancing act and I honestly think it was a mistake to do pop-ups, but I'm human and I make mistakes....

What I don't think is a mistake is the way we do pop-unders, 1 pop under every 12 hours is very inobtrusive and so it gives us an option for advertisers who need something beyond the banner.

I guess the bottom line is this, I'm committed to finding ways for advertising to cover the bulk of our costs, hope that DVD Talkers will help out where they can, when they can and will try to do all this in a way where our members aren't inundated with pop-ups, rich media, and other less desirable forms of advertising. Sometimes I'll get it just right, sometimes I may mess up. But I'll keep trying my best to make it all work.

Rogue588

Ya know what...

I've recently started posting frequently...before I was a lurker. This is the only message board/forum site that I frequent now. I really dislike popups, but as long as they don't give birth to other popups I don't mind.

But what really gets on my nerves is the insult to our intelligence that Geoff is perpetrating with this V: the Final Battle popup.

EVERYONE knows that Kyle Bates didn't appear until the TV Series!

For shame Geoff. Such trickery!

Or maybe it's just that he hasn't answered my email.

elektra

Geoff - Thanks. I appreciate you understanding and not taking it to mean that I don't wish to support you and the site. That is NOT my intention. Heck, I would not have donated to Paypal if I didn't. I apologize for freaking out.

I'll drop you an email later.