Yes, that's all we do over there. We talk crap about DVDTalk all the time. Did you know you're voted most likely to generalize something over there? CONGRATS!!!!

Blade,

Yes you did ask for patience..."if ya don't like the thread title, then don't click the thread." You never got in the way of our FUN though. You also understood the excitement of the fans after the Championship was won and our desire to discuss different subjects in various threads.
It was current event and some people wanted to talk about it. You did start clamping down a week after the Championship by limiting us to only one Lakers Thread. And we were fine and happy with those arrangements.

Your fun, at the expense of many many other people is not fun I am going to allow. I didn't say keep it to one thread, I said keep it to a few. Your response was to start creating more threads and then throwing a fit when rules I gave you fair warning on were enforced.

And it isn't personal. I'm quite fond of you and always have been. This is a rule I am applying fairly to any and all subjects that have recently gotten out of hand. Sorry you are upset.

That's it -- I'm going to start 17 Portland Trailblazers threads now.

How about 18 on how badly the Celtics and my farts stink ...

Bushy,

I know it's not personal and we will always be great friends. Hell, I got you the Mod Job and all. We just are in disagreement. Nothing more.

I just don't see the "at the expense of many, many other people" line. Your starting to sound like Carl Sagan. Like DVDTalk has..."billions and billions of people hurt by Lakers/Sixers Threads." Dude...it's just words...who are we hurting again? Los Angeles had their Celebration Parade today and we were just having fun. We were just asking for a couple more days to enjoy. The "Ebb & Flow" will even things out...you just rushed it. But I guess Sunday was the cutoff day and the locks started breaking out, even if there was active discussion going on. It's not hurting anyone anymore than a Bush/Clinton/Gore/Congress "did this" threads. Let's not just apply this "policy" to Sports Threads then. Post Counts, Word Association, Congrats on # of posts, Post before whomever gets on the forum are gone. I understand all this from the financial/server load problems from Geoff. I've spent many hours talking through the years with Geoff about that aspect of the forum. No big deal. But hanging out and having some fun with some friends is still allowed....

Some of us come to this forum to have fun and relax. Others come to debate serious topics. The people and their posts make DVDTalk Otters...not the subject matter. Not everything has to be a serious discussion that's going to change the world and end world hunger. I don't like it when things are judged as not worthy enough to merit a thread. And then threads start to disappear....yet my mailbox was empty.


[Edited by Kenwood on 06-19-01 at 09:58 AM]

Maybe it's time for a new forums....Sports Talk and Debate Talk?

Well, that's what you get for being on AOL ...

That's what I've been saying for ages. Through in a music one too then I won't have to bother wading through the "shaggytalk" and other crap in other.

I know you have Josh...we have agreed on this for some time now. I've tried with Geoff too. But at least we have Book Talk

Hi Soup! How are you doing?

Are we having fun yet???

Hey Bud. Do you check your E-Mail?

Doing well, and having a blast ...

I just thought I'd throw my ppinion out there again. Geoff has said he was thinking of starting a Music forum though. So we might get that. It makes sense as music is home theater related in a way. I doubt we'll get a debate or sports forum though.

My unasked-for and oft-ignored position: "Other Forum" is a tradtion. You want to keep it. But splitting it into "The Other Forum - SoapBox" and "The Other Forum - Lounge" would be one casual way of mitigating how fast threads drop off the front page.

Such names would tend to steer the serious threads in one direction and the comedy threads in another--without making anyone enforce any specific new rules.

Why bother?

You'd be creating one Intelligent Talk forum that'd remain largely empty, and one Shaggy Talk forum that would be a near-replica of the current Other Forum.

I just went through the first two pages of the Other Forum and pulled out every thread with 20 or more responses. Here's the list:

Mariah Carey's New Video
Could you handle this much money?
Poll: Should Geoff shave his Beard off or go with a "Goatee"?
The "Answers Only" Thread
The "Questions Only" Thread
favorite song with "angel" in the title
Active Players who are LOCKS for the Hall of Fame
Relationship problems: Am I in love?
Other Forum Member Profiles
hey randyc
How many people have seen/been affected by your work?
What kind of gas should you use for long roadtrips?
The 2000-2001 NBA "Back-to-Back" World Champion Los Angeles Lakers !!!
Which ML Player Has Performed The Best This Season vs. His Salary?
Did you ever work in Mcdonalds?
An Interesting Poll On The 2004 Presidential Race!
Future Hall of Famers from one team?
My sister-in-law fell asleep on the couch
I need more advice on women
milkshakes: thick or thin?
The OFFICIAL Bonds Watch
Who is the greatest shortstop of all time?
Did you ever win a contest/call in and NOT want the prize? [read and laugh at Keyser]
Cal Ripken to retire from MLB at the end of the season
The OFFICIAL Cubs-Cards Thread
what's the worst job you ever had?
Is Christina Aguilera starting to look like the guys from Twisted Sister?
What country makes the best cars?
Holy Cow is Angelina Jolie Hot!!!

These threads can be separated into four groups:
* Random bull$hit. Banter, polls, banality. Total count: 15.
* Sports threads. Discussions of players, teams, or random gloating about games/seasons/championships. Total count: 8.
* Personal advice threads. Serious questions about life advice. Total count: 4.
* Intellectual threads. Total count: 2.

It's obvious what makes up the bulk of Other Forum discussion. It's obvious what kinds of people are currently frequenting the Other Forum, and what kinds of topics they wish to discuss. It should also be obvious why I am no longer one of them.

It needn't be this way. We used to have a lot better mix of *interesting* discussion along with the flotsam and jetsam of mindless drivel. But the composition slowly changed over time, and the brunt of new members and current contributions fit in the "let's talk about my belly button lint" category. I'm not going to bother naming people, but I'm sure world+dog can name the worst offenders. And though I used to be an Other Forum addict, now I have trouble finding anything that sustains my interest, and I no longer fit in among the typical contributors.

Of course, in the past, the composition of Other has varied in cycles. I was hopeful that the current cycle of droll mumbling would wane back when Geoff implemented the new software and called for a cleanup of Other Forum discussion. And for a while it worked: no more padding, more interesting conversation. I hoped that Other was taking a turn for the better.

That lasted about a week, maybe two. By that point we were back to the same pointless babble that had overflowed more engaging conversation. In fact, the blather has reached new heights, only it's been repackaged without the _obvious_ "pad" label. It still stinks to me, regardless of the packaging. And, in fact, moderators stopped trying to hold back the floodgates and joined the flood. I fear that the cyclic nature of the Other Forum may have ended and that the good stuff has gone south for the millennium.

I'm disappointed.

I'm disappointed the the most interesting things the Other Forum crowd want to discuss constitute popsicle flavors and actresses' breasts.

I'm disappointed that the mods do not see this simple lack of I.Q. in today's threads as a problem.

I'm disappointed that Geoff hasn't done anything about this, such as creating a new forum (as many of us have requested countless times) or appointing even ONE mod who's tended toward more intelligent discussion. I'm sorely annoyed that we have separate forums for "Studio Talk" and "PC Hardware" and "TV Talk" and "Video Game Talk" and "Book Talk" but we can't get a separate forum for "Intellectual Discussion." But of course, given the current climate of Other - so many interesting members have fled - and so few members interested in discussing anything interesting remain - it probably wouldn't make much sense.

In short, I'm badly disappointed that DVD Talk resources that used to house great discussions are now wasted on a heap of boring bull$hit, and that the vast, vast majority thinks this is just fine.

To answer your original question: "Has the FUN left the Other Forum?" - obviously it depends on how you define "fun." If you think intelligent, engaging discussion is fun, the answer is a resounding YES. If, on the other hand, you find moronic babble "fun", then the Other Forum is now your eternal buffet.

Be seeing you.

- David Stein

[Edited by sfsdfd on 06-20-01 at 10:49 AM]

I don't agree with everything you said David, but I do see your point. There are some issues at work here, but the main one is that what people want to view and respond to, don't reflect what someone else may want to be popular. In that respect, the threads become the result of a "popular" vote...and as such, they reflect the users. We as mods and admin attempt to steer things towards a balance, but as this very thread so perfectly defines....we can not please everyone.

This thread was started because some were not happy with the crack down on banality...and then you have those crying that there is too much banality. Not enough babe threads! Why censor our porn?!? There is too much sexism and testosterone in the forum! Why can't we have more NASA and Space threads? Too many Lakers posts! Why can't we have more Lakers posts? Shaggy? Ack...

It's a mix...and it will not work for everyone. Perhaps the solution is a separate forum. No debate about that. But I will say that I bet there will still be complaints in both Banal and Non_Banal Forums about the content, at least to some extent.

Last point....I am curious about your statement about the mods chosen and their relationship to serious threads. I know I joke around a lot, but I would also like to think I have spent a fair amount of time in serious threads, specially before I was a mod. Becoming a mod actually made participation in certain types of threads problematic. I personally think it's a mistake to get too entrenched in a thread about welfare, abortion, or religion...specially if it starts to get a little nasty...as it normally does. It's hard to be the mod closing a thread, after taking sides, if that makes sense. I also have seen a lot of contributions from the other mods in serious threads, so I am a little confused by what you mean. Do you think we should pick mods that don't post in banal or comic threads?

And if you were a mod of other, I am curious...what would you do to address the problem as you see it? I would like to know.

P.S. I have previously recommended you be a mod you know.

David--

thanks for showing up and voicing your opinion. It is something that needs to be heard because most just turn a blind eye. I miss how things were, but I have hope that it will return.

I know it is cliche, but it is summer and that sort of changes peoples attitudes. Maybe it's a little more light-felt. I know that I am busy doing non-student things and that directly affects my desire to get involved in a large debate. Also people like you are gone doing other things. When there is a debate it generally dies off from a lack of perspective. You always seem able to bring up some interesting points.

A couple months ago I supported having a separate forum for intellegent/serious topics. I still do. I've seen it done well in other places.

I say one of the best ideas would be to make:

TV/Sports Talk
Politics/Religion
Shoot the _hit

There you'd only have to make one new forum. Politics/Relgion. You'd also add some more traffic to tv talk and the two go together well.

I think it would be very cool if this could come to be.

David,

Well said. Even though I'm not in 100% agreement with your assessment of the current batch of 'other' moderators - everything else, for the most part, was right on.

When I first came to this forum, I came for the DVD bargains. Then I was introduced to the 'other' forum. It was cool to play a character, be a practical joker, and shoot the $hit. Most of it, albeit was banality in its utmost form.

When I originally drafted this thread, almost 2 months ago, I was upset at the crackdown that was 'implemented' by Geoff. I thought the 'FUN' was leaving, and I was blind to the way that the 'other' had become.

The founder-based initiave lasted a mere 1-2 weeks, and then a new batch of padders reigned supreme. As you can tell, by my lack of recent activity in the 'other', moving and surgical operations aside, I have changed my stance.

The current level of pure mindless posts are at an all-time high. I was a primary contributor to this in the summer and fall of 2000, up until the 'crackdown'. Maybe, it was the example that I set, that had so many 'others' taking my heed and posting mindless drivel.

Once again, I emphasize - my stance has changed. Aside from a few well-deserved pawn-shots, flavored with a hint of sarcastic humor (you people know who you are), my discussions have drifted from padding to substance.

I guess another part that I don't understand, would be ...

* Why do we have so many threads in a DVD Talk Forum? It appears to me that system resources wouldn't be in crunch-phase, if we stuck to the title of this site.

- It seems logical that there be DVD Talk, Bargains, etc ...

- But ... Book Talk? Video Game Talk?

Regards,
Scott

[B]The FUN has left this thread[B]

I'm disappointed in you, David. You, and other serious-minded individuals, abandon the Other Forum and now complain about its frivolous content? Perhaps if you and others who feel the way you do actualy posted intellectually stimulating threads, there would be a lower banal-to-serious thread ratio.

Quote:

It's obvious what makes up the bulk of Other Forum discussion. It's obvious what kinds of people are currently frequenting the Other Forum, and what kinds of topics they wish to discuss. It should also be obvious why I am no longer one of them.

I'm not sure I agree with your generalization, and I'm sure many would take offense at your disparagement of the "kinds of people" frequenting the Other. Once again, however, you have chosen to abondon the forum to those "kinds of people". Either join in and make a difference, or don't.

Quote:

It needn't be this way. We used to have a lot better mix of *interesting* discussion along with the flotsam and jetsam of mindless drivel. But the composition slowly changed over time, and the brunt of new members and current contributions fit in the "let's talk about my belly button lint" category. I'm not going to bother naming people, but I'm sure world+dog can name the worst offenders. And though I used to be an Other Forum addict, now I have trouble finding anything that sustains my interest, and I no longer fit in among the typical contributors.

David, I have often enjoyed reading your posts, and based on what I read I found you to be an intelligent, thoughtful and humorous person. When did you lose your sense of humor?

You must understand that those of us who still frequent the other might take offense at your post. It certainly gives the appearance that you believe yourself to be above others - a position I am confident you do not intend, but one that can be inferred, improperly or not, from what you say.

Quote:

Of course, in the past, the composition of Other has varied in cycles. I was hopeful that the current cycle of droll mumbling would wane back when Geoff implemented the new software and called for a cleanup of Other Forum discussion. And for a while it worked: no more padding, more interesting conversation. I hoped that Other was taking a turn for the better.

* * *

I'm disappointed.

I'm disappointed the the most interesting things the Other Forum crowd want to discuss constitute popsicle flavors and actresses' breasts.

I'm disappointed that the mods do not see this simple lack of I.Q. in today's threads as a problem.

I'm disappointed that Geoff hasn't done anything about this...

In short, I'm badly disappointed that DVD Talk resources that used to house great discussions are now wasted on a heap of boring bull$hit, and that the vast, vast majority thinks this is just fine.

To answer your original question: "Has the FUN left the Other Forum?" - obviously it depends on how you define "fun." If you think intelligent, engaging discussion is fun, the answer is a resounding YES. If, on the other hand, you find moronic babble "fun", then the Other Forum is now your eternal buffet.

Be seeing you.

- David Stein

[Edited by sfsdfd on 06-20-01 at 10:49 AM]

I'm dissapointed that you don't find it worthwhile to stick it out and try to bring the forum back to what it once was. The cycle will not come around if no one is there to make it do so. I certainly don't think that you could, or should, single-handedly stem the tide of frivolous threads. However, if you and Soup and all those who feel similarly came back to the Other, things just might start to turn around.

Few worthwhile goals are achieved without effort.

- Steve Menard

No so long ago there was a most unseemly scrabbling around the corpse of Kenwood. The intent was clear. The ambition almost palpable. No-one clearly seeking "mod-dom" should have it thrust upon them.

It does no good to post intellectual stuff in an attempt to bring balance to the forum. It is simply not possible to come up enough good intellectual threads to equal the number of crappy, banal threads that any moron can make up in 5 seconds. There needs to be two forums, end of story. Until then I'll just occasionally skim other. It's not worth my time to check it regularly anymore.

IMO we need:

Sports Talk
Music Talk
Debate Forum
Other Forum Lounge

I prefer several tightly orgnized forums over a few broad ones that require you to wade through pages of posts every couple days, unless you live on the internet and can check in 2 or 3 times a day. I absolutely love Video Game Talk. There are more video game threads than before. They don't get buried, and thusly stay around much longer. The same thing would happen to the other topics if they get their own areas.

I don't think David was generalizing about the "kinds of people" as a personal attack, rather the kinds of posts and threads that "those kind of people" are producing.

Some very intelligent people have left their mark in the 'other' by posting banal and useless $hit. I was one of them ...

I mean, there is a place for both. Just not as much of one, and not enough of another.

When David pulled a few topics of the front page of the 'other' and tabulated where they belonged, the paradigm shift was obvious. The Shaggy999 - I just got laid threads, etc ... are going overboard.

Yeah, me too, but I'm still there. It'd be more interesting with you there, Soup.

Quote:

The Shaggy999 - I just got laid threads, etc ... are going overboard.

I couldn't agree more. I have chosen to simply ignore those threads from now on (the latest one re: the husband calling him was the last straw). However, if others enjoy them, I don't particularly care if they exist.

The only way better threads will come along is if people get on the forum and post them.

David:

Many of your observations are correct, but I have to wonder why you choose to complain, but not actually do anything about it? When all is said and done, the types of threads in any forum are due to the people posting in them. You want it more serious, you can make it more serious. You want it more crude, you can make it more crude.

Members have the say in what gets posted just by posting. If you want more serious analytical debate, start a thread. There's no use putting any kind of blame on anyone for what's there, if you're not willing to try to effect a change yourself.