Ah, you edited your post. I forget exactly what you had said, but I was going to say something nice defending you.

But anyway, great discussion. I'm almost 50 btw.

More thoughts on Superman, I grew up mainly on the late silver and Bronze Age comics, and consider an amalgam of those comics, George Reeves, and Christopher Reeve to be "the real Superman". Sure, there are dozens of variations of the interpretation but he's basically a big Boy Scout who stands for Truth and Justice.

I went into Man of Steel expecting this Superman and instead got a big jerk.

But then I went into BvS knowing that Snyder's Superman wasn't really Superman, and loved the film. So in retrospect, I can maybe go back to MoS and appreciate it as an Elseworlds story.

Like you Dx, I grew up on those 100 pagers and can usually appreciate multiple interpretations of a character. I'm not sure why MoS irked me so much initially. It was probably because I really enjoyed Snyder's earlier films and hoped that him doing DC films was the beginning of utopia (a world where DC has something as great as the MCU).

I think the "talking animals" debate comes down to how strict you want your individual Challenge to be. Do you want to have a "pure" month where you stay yoked to what IMDB says? Fantasy elements are in a ton of films that aren't listed as Fantasy, but are definitely fantasy in my mind.

Personally, most months/years I'm very liberal with myself, some months I stick to rigid criteria. But personally, I'm going to count talking animal films every July.

Minus the part about Braniac coming from Krypton, the Krypton in Superman: The Animated Series actually seems to be pretty true to the silver age comics, as seen in Part 1 of 'Last Son Of Krypton'.

Exactly. I can't imagine how any Disney animated film would fail to be counted as fantasy.

would Mr. Robot qualify for this challenge?

I'd read it but by the time I replied I was in a hurry, just didn't re-read the entire post first, and forgot.
The portrayal of Clark Kent by Reeves in The Adventures of Superman is what I use to judge *every* one of the character's appearances. So far, the live action ones have come up universally lacking. They portray him as a doofus/klutz when he's not. I don't know if I'd call his Superman "bland" but he's not "in your face" like the newer incarnations. He lives in the background. Those stories are more about his (Clark/Superman) interactions with humans and how he maintains his "secret identy" while keeping those relationships. It's how I *expect* Superman/Clark to be. More Clark than Superman as Superman essentially comes by to "save the day" and truly isn't needed otherwise. It's what he finds out *as* Clark that allows him to do this and then just fade into the background.

It's been way too many years since I've read any of those early 60s Superman stories but I don't remember Clark being a doofus/klutz *unless* he needed a quick "get-a-way" to change into Superman. Otherwise he was the *top* reporter for The Daily Planet. A doofus can't do that job...

re: Man of Steel
Interesting... I recently purchased the BR Superman Anthology which has all the films up to, but not including, Man of Steel. I plan to watch them during the challenge and a co-worker gave me a BR copy of Man of Steel I've yet to watch (that particular copy - I own a DVD copy and have watched it once). My biggest connundrum is just where to put the Lester version of Superman II. I'm thinking I'll save it for after MoS.

While I *do* like Christopher Reeve as Superman his Clark is horrible. Even though Superman is my favorite Superman movie I have many issues with the story. Like you, I've hated "ice-world Krypton" since I saw the film in the theater and that extended stay in the Fortress feeling sorry for himself just wouldn't happen with the Superman I'd read and knew at the time. I also dislike the design of the Fortress in that film. None of it was like that in the stories I'd read.

Parts of Superman still give me that feeling I had watching The Adventures of Superman as a 5 year old. When Clark first puts on the suit in Metropolis to save Lois is the best one.

But then they do stupid stuff: Superman taking Lois for a extended, time wasting, flight over the city. I disliked that scene when I saw the film in the theater and currently fast forward/skip when it comes up. I also hated the "ending":

I was superbly insulted by that sequence. It just *wouldn't* happen. For several reasons. I almost walked out of the theater in disgust (of course it was at the very end anyway so would have been a pretty bland statement). It still makes me mad that it happened.

Yep. I agree. That's just *not* Superman as I know the character.

Honestly, I don't expect the films to be exactly like the comics, but at least make them consistent, stick to comic continuity (at the very least for origin stories), and tell a story that's more than a single 22 page issue with several 2-page spread slugfest fillers. If they want them to be "Elseworld" type stories then *tell us up front* or keep the characters consistent with how they'd behave in the comics and make the stories plausible in that universe.

It just seems that they (Warner) have no idea what will work in movies and keep throwing different stuff against the wall hoping something will stick. If they'd pull the TV group in to do the movies it'd help significantly. The current people working on the movies, other than a couple of fanboy directors/actors, just don't seem to have a clue and it hurts the properties.

What I hated most about that film was that Superman gives up his powers

Again... out intelligence was insulted.


OK... I'll confess as well... I just turned 61.

That's a pretty good assessment. I knew DC had changed the character in "The New 52" in that direction but was surprised to actually see it portrayed on the big screen.
I've not yet seen BvS but will just as soon as it comes down to my typical target price (~$5 new) for films I want to see but don't expect much from (probably on BF).

I can usually appreciate multiple interpretations of favorite characters but I don't care for Elseworlds stories. That's pretty much how I see the newer Superman films. The Christopher Reeve films are closer to what I expect but they, too, are full of critical flaws that ultimately reduce my enjoyment of the films.

^ Great post, as always Bob. I'm hard wired to be OCD about continuity and want my characters to stay consistent, but I'm trying to get away from that and consider every comic to be an Elseworlds story. If I really want my old consistency, I can just read years worth of older stuff.

Those big flaws in the Reeve films really irk me too, but nostalgia wins me over and keeps them firmly in the "love them" camp for me. Not to rub this in, but perhaps being younger helps me there. If I saw them now for the first time, that ending would easily ruin the entire film for me. Sort of how I hate The Goonies since I saw it for the first time fairly recently, but would probably love it if I saw it when it was released.

I've never seen it, please your best judgement. Remember the wildcards, if you start something and it turns out not to be, you do have 3 wildcards to use for that instance.
I'm not going to go through people's lists and ban them for using Disney as fantasy if it doesn't carry one of the sci-fi/fantasy tags. But do remember that next month is animation month and anything animated counts in August.

I agree Disney is fantasy oriented but not every animated film is something I'd consider "fantasy." Like I mentioned earlier, a movie like Zootopia where the animals are walking like humans, wear clothes, have jobs, drive cars is a lot more fantasy than a film where the "fantasy" element is just that they talk.

I am going to see Finding Dory in about an hour, so maybe I'll change my stance afterwards, but at this point, I'm still leaning towards talking animals with no other fantasy element not counting. If anyone has a good argument for including just talking animals, please post it. I have been known to change my mind!

They seem like the very definition of fantasy the more I think about it. I can't really imagine any Disney film as just animals substituting for humans. Besides the animals talking, their context and setting are always part of the overall plot.

Thanks! I sometimes feel like I'm in full-on rant mode. One of the guys at work calls me "Debbie Downer" because I'm usually griping about *something*!

If I considered every comic to be a Elseworlds story I'd just drop all the DC stuff... wait... I did that ~6 months into "The New 52" for that very reason!

The majority of what I now read is from independents/smaller publishers (i.e. no DC or Marvel). If you've not yet given it a look-see pick up "Saga" by Brian K. Vaughan (art by Fiona Staples). It's *very* good.
I'm in that same camp. And it's not because of my age. In my case it's a love of the character. When I was 4-5 I'd run around the yard with a towel clipped around my neck with a clothespin playing Superman. All the time. But I get where you're coming from. Over the years I've observed that what you love as a kid tends to stick with you. Stuff your parents/other adults consider "dumb" is your bread-n-butter and you'll tend to keep those things close even as a adult. Nostalgia. It works better than many think and gives you those unexplicable loves/needs/wants well into adulthood. My son didn't care for *any* of the TV shows or movies I loved as a kid. Maybe I tried to hard with him, but we now have lots of "common ground" with certain types/genres of films so maybe it worked after all. My grandson *loves* many of the films and TV shows I loved when I was his age (~13)! Well... he *doesn't* like Star Trek so I've failed, once again, to endear that one to my offspring... But he likes more than he dislikes and said a few months back "TV was better when you were a kid, Pa!" That made me happy.

Thanks for the great responses. I only have a short time here, so I'm going to make a few quick comments and run.
Darn it. I could always use someone saying something nice about me.
I'm 3 years older than you.
I don't see "big jerk" there, more of an outsider and a loner, looking for a place where he fits in.
I haven't seen it yet. I quit going to theaters about 20 years ago. I'll rent it and eventually buy a 3D copy when I find it cheap. I just hope the 3D is better than on Man of Steel.
You're not alone. It irked a lot of people. I look like a great defender of the movie, and all I said was "I liked it alright."
I need to revisit that show. There are probably some episodes that I missed when it originally aired that I've never seen. The same with Justice League.
They do tell us in the opening narration that it's Superman "disguised as Clark Kent" who "fights a neverending battle..."
It probably depends on the writer.
I watched them in release order, with the Donner cut of II last.

I've always had problems with Lester's Superman II, but those problems (mostly the new Superpowers and the "comedy") just seemed even worse this last time. I seriously came out liking Superman III (which gets most of the slapstick out of the way during the opening credits) better than II.
I like that his Clark and Superman really seem like two different people. I think he does a great job with it.
I don't mind seeing them flying around (it helped with the whole "you'll believe a man can fly" bit, at least back when the special effects were still impressive. What I hate is the whole "can you read my mind?" portion of that scene. If that had been edited out, it would play much better.


A lot of that comes from having two directors, and the studio wanting to finish Superman and putting Superman II (which was being filmed at the same time) on hold. I really need to listen to the Donner commentaries on those movies.

I'm willing to admit that my not hating Man of Steel is probably due a lot to my fondness for the character of Superman. That just seeing Superman onscreen is entertaining to me. I walked through my house yesterday after I'd made that first long post and realized that there is something Superman related in every room in my house (except the bathrooms). Batman came in second.

finally got around to watching Stargate with James Spader and Kurt Russell.

i had never seen it before. I watched the extended cut. It was interesting, but i had a hard time getting used to seeing james spader with long hair!

I enjoyed the film, but I agree about Hugh Jackman. I even liked his silly mullet! The film also features a cute Dev Patel doing his bumbling nerd schtick! Films that are odd often draw me in, and after watching Chappie, I demanded "what the hell are you?" It never answered.

I just got an email from the Disney Movie Club that my order of The Force Awakens, and my copy of Gargoyles, Season 2, Volume 1 will be shipping soon.

I'm a little late to the party, and kicked it off by re-visiting my favorite British Sci-Fi film (sorry Quatermass) and top 10 favorite The Day the Earth Caught Fire on Blu-ray for the first time. Doubt I'll be able to get as much as I'd like to during this challenge, but I do plan on making Val Guest a re-occurring theme, including some of the Space 1999 episodes he directed.

Don't apologize for The Day the Earth Caught Fire being your favorite; it's a very fine movie. I lean more toward Quatermass and the Pit, though I'm very fond of Island of Terror. The more contemporary Grabbers is fun, too.

I should be getting another Edward Judd movie in next week, Invasion. I'm looking forward to it, but I don't know if it'll be in the same league as his other two mentioned above.

I quite agree. I would even add that some of the N52 Suerman stories aren't that bad. Man of Steel really was that bad - it removed the Clark/Lois/Superman triangle. It literally reversed his upbringing and parental techings from giving him good reason to care for humanity to specifically making - and telling! - him to fear it.*

The idea that his Dad would order Clark not to save him - and that Clark would listen - essentially ruined any chance of the rest of the film being anything other than WRONNNGGG.

There was a thought floating around that the "S" shield logo for Man of Steel had the extended serif denoting Earth 2. Which is some comfort. Especially after the scared/angry "hero" drifted into conflict with Lex & Batman because he - and Bruce - listened to, and were easily manipulated by, crazy, sociopathic headcase Lex Luthor. Which is also against character for both. Thank goodness for the Marthas, or they'd both be dead...



*Again, making the crazy hypothesis of Returns that much more plausible by comparison. And lest it is unclear, Returns asks us to believe that the caring Superman who a) wants to protect mankind (a.5) from extra-planetary figures such as Stamp-Zod et al.) and b) knows Krypton exploded, is gone and c) turned into a subsyance that will kill him... would leave Earth indefinitely to hunt for Krypton........ (and, unless we ignore his powers/decency, also leave either pregnant-Lois or "just" Lois behind into the bargain.)

I went through the sci-fi offerings on Amazon Prime and there's quite a good range of choices. I added "Twilight Zone" and "Star Trek" TOS to my watch list along with quite a few '50s and '60s sci-fi films like SPACE CHILDREN, CRACK IN THE WORLD, QUEEN OF BLOOD, and the never-seen UK-German thriller from 1964, FROZEN ALIVE. During the Historical Challenge, it was all westerns for me on Amazon Prime.

The Star Treks are not the remastered ones now on DVD and now running on ME-TV. They have new FX shots inserted, thoroughly desecrating the originals. I watched one on Saturday on ME-TV, "The Deadly Years," from the second season, one I don't believe I ever saw before, and it's one of the worst in the series. The leads are all suffering from rapid aging and instead of trying to find a cure before they die, they spend the entire episode debating Captain Kirk's fitness to command even though it's obvious he's getting senile. Then they find a far-fetched miracle cure in the last five minutes. Terrible.

You do know that Lois and Clark have been married in the comics and on TV, right? They didn't just pull Lois knowing Superman's secret identity out of a hat just to piss you off. Are you upset that you're going to miss out on a story where she tries to cut Superman's hair to prove he's Clark Kent, or something?
I don't think he was telling him to fear humanity, more like fear the government. His parents were afraid the government would take him away and experiment on him. Hell, The X-Files started in 1993. Maybe Ma & Pa Kent were big fans.
EDIT: This is probably the one thing I disliked most about that movie. And then I was pissed off again when I watched Superman again for the first time in decade or so and saw that Clark did absolutely nothing in that film when his dad died. Doesn't one of the film or TV versions have him carry Pa to a hospital? Maybe it was in one of the comic book versions of his origin.
You mean Superman Returns asks us to believe that the same "caring" Superman who left his grieving widowed mother alone for fifteen years to go sit in the Fortress of Solitude, and who later had no clue that Lois was about to die in a nuclear explosion because he was home all night "reading Dickens," and had no idea that Zod had taken over the world until he just happened to see it on TV might still be a selfish asshole? How dare they?

I've started working my way through Mighty Morphin Power Rangers on Netflix. I prefer the more serious versions that came later, but I do enjoy the Japanese scenes, and besides, I wanted to start from the beginning.

My dogs woke me up in the middle of the night, and I couldn't get back to sleep, so I thought I'd browse the Dish Guide, and came across a movie I had never seen before, Hot Tub Time Machine 2, on Epix 1. I wouldn't call it a classic by any means, but found it enjoyable if you check your brain at the door and just think of it as mindless fun. I kinda want to see the first one now, as I've never seen that one either.

Being the 4th of July, I've been debating whether to watch Independence Day sometime today, but I haven't decided yet. I'm still on the fence about it.

I did that too and found anything I had a interest in viewing I already owned. or actually as it means I'm not tied to the whims of streaming licensing. But I'd hoped to find at least a couple of things "just because."
IIRC the Remastered DVD release only includes the new FX. The only way to get remastered original prints *without* the new FX is with the BR sets. That's why I waited until I got a BR player before upgrading my original tricorder package DVDs.

I must say I've been mostly enjoying the new FX. I thought I'd only watch those versions once and then never again. Some are quite stunning and worth repeat viewings. I'm still somewhat undecided about which I truly prefer but lean towards the original as that's what I've watched since the original airings. What bothers me more than the new FX is the re-recorded open. While it's "good" it's just not quite right so I *always* use the original mono soundtracks. It also bothers and annoys me that the original Desilu end logo has been replaced with the new CBS/Paramount one. My mind still hears the Desilu one.

I'm currently watching S3 and just finished "Plato's Stepchildren." One episode that, at least for me, benefits from the new FX is "The Tholian Web." The sequence when the Tholians are creating the web is more impressive and imposing, partly due to matte bleed-through on the Enterprise on the original, but I prefer the original Tholian ships. I also prefer most of the shots of the Defiant on the original print. I watched both - back-to-back - to see which I liked better. For this episode it's mixed... but i'm leaning towards the original.

Also, and this affects *all* episodes, some of the exterior shots of the Enterprise in its new digital form just don't look "right" either. Many of the original mattes bothered me as they had lots of bleed through and there's lots of generational grain/noise on some composite shots of the Enterprise so I really thought I'd prefer the digital ones but I'm finding that's just not the case. I really wish they could have found a way to clean up the original shots without resorting to digital copies.

Here's a glamor shot of the newly restored, original model, Enterprise on display at the Smithsonian:

And one in its climate controlled display case:


If it could only look that good on the restored original prints...

Come on, watch it. I can't be the only person watching ID4 today.

You convinced me, I decided to watch it.

Ditto. I'm also going to wild card National Treasure, which has enough fantastic elements to make a stretch and include it.

Earlier today I watched Looper. It was a interesting take on time travel. They almost lost me early on with a rather huge paradox:

In spite of that I kept watching and things got better. They actually did a good job of closing all the other paradoxes at the end.

I followed that with a viewing of Innerspace, a film I've not seen since it first came out. It was better than I remembered and quite entertaining. I shouldn't have hesitated so long in purchasing a copy.

My grandson came over and we're now watching X2 at his request. Saturday he'd asked to watch the first X-Men film and I'm now thinking he'll want to watch them all. I don't necessarily have a problem with that but would prefer to jump to the Marvel films I have in the "unopened" piles. Those are currently: Captain America, Captain America: Winter Soldier, Thor, Thor: The Dark World, and The Avengers. I've already seen the first Cap and Thor films but want to screen my personal copies before moving on to the rest, which I *haven't* yet seen.