One suggestion I think might improve the "Made By" list is to expand it a little instead of the same people each time or at least broaden it a bit, as you've touched on. You could give people more options and a variety, especially since some of the people on the list only have a limited number of works and from one year to the next someone could easily watch everything they've produced.

That said, I think most of the people you have listed are essential to any animation checklist, with the exception of Ralph Bakshi, but that's just because I think he's a hack compared to the likes of Disney, Miyazaki, Iwerks, etc.

Some animators I think could be included: Don Bluth, Bill Melendez, Matt Groening, Bob Clampett, Friz Freleng, William Hanna, Joseph Barbera, Jim Henson, Mamoru Oshii, Bruce Timm, Mike Judge, Shinichiro Watanabe, and Nick Park. You could even make some of them into groups, for example: Paul Dini or Bruce Timm; or Matt Groening/Mike Judge/Set MacFarlane. Combining them like that would allow for a wider variety of animators and mediums to be included in that part of the challenge. You could even include a section for some of the bigger animation "studios" like Pixar, Disney, Nickelodeon, Studio Ghibli, and DreamWorks.

^ it's an acquired taste but you could add Bill Plympton to that list too

I didn't say it was an anime version of Metropolis, I said it was an anime remake and like all remakes, there's give and take.

^True, but for all practical purposes "version" and "remake" imply pretty much the same thing. That is: it's *not* the original and expect differences. A "you say potato, I say potahto" type thing.

No matter which verbage you chose, your addition of that information to the reveiws/descriptions I've read was the tipping point. Even the box text fails to mention this connection and references only the "classic comic created by Osamu Tezuka". Probably a glowing recommendation for someone familiar with manga but it means nothing to someone like me who does not read that genre. I'm a fan of the original and a simple "version/remake/adaptation of the classic Fritz Lang film" would be enough. I looked up the wiki (don't know why I didn't start there...) which *does* make the association and implies it owes as much to the Lang film, possibly more, as to the Tezuka manga.

I'll keep it solely for the additional version whether or not I care for the style and whether or not I like it after viewing. I do that with *lots* of classic films as it's interesting to watch and contrast versions.

Thanks, again, for your input!

One man's "hack" is another man's hero.

He's not mine but I respect the fact that in art taste and opinions vary. Some people love Anime and others hate it. People who are into Anime may not be into Disney for example. I love Disney and think Anime is "OK." I've been slowly warming up to it. I do idolize Astro Boy.

I love Bill Plympton. You've inspired me to watch my copy of "Hair High."

You're right, art is subjective and opinions vary, but I just find it hard to believe that someone could actually believe Bakshi is more talented than Disney or Miyazaki.

The story is that Osamu Tezuka had not seen Lang's METROPOLIS but was inspired to do the manga by some stills he had seen from the film. Did he ever see METROPOLIS? I don't know. But by the time the animated METROPOLIS was made (2001), Tezuka had been dead for 12 years. It's probably a safe bet to assume that the director, Rintaro, and many of the creative personnel had seen Lang's film by then and been influenced by it.

I need to:
a) re-watch Lang's METROPOLIS
b) re-read Tezuka's manga
c) re-watch the animated METROPOLIS

...and figure out for myself what influenced what.

I was going to change the guys in the checklist but there wasn't a lot of discussion before the challenge started and I was burned out on other things. At the time, I wouldn't have minded if the challenge was quietly forgotten. Even as a participant, it's still somewhat of an odd swing to switch to a month of animation but I'm having fun with the checklist so far and saving the animators for the end.

I like your ideas and I plan on using them for next year.

Poor Mr Peepers. . We appreciate your efforts.

I'm not ashamed to say it's the job. The most stressful time of the job is this time.

For the checklist folks, what are you doing for Title with a loathed character? I went with Wilma in The Flintstones Meet Rockula And Frankenstone. It's not that specific movie where I can't stand her, I've watched the show since I was a kid and could never stand her. Too bossy for my tastes.

Just to clarify...the anime list I provided was not designed to try to make an anime fan out of you, but to list titles I thought were good-to-great science fiction, since you stated that it was your favorite genre. During a period (the last 30 years?) when so many high-profile Hollywood sci-fi films were simply action-adventure or horror tales with space or sci-fi backdrops, Japan has actually been making serious science fiction films and TV shows that just happen to have been created via animation.

So Ash, ever watch The Ping Pong Club?

I started going through the set http://www.amazon.com/Ping-Pong-Club...2669463&sr=8-1 and am enjoying it so far. It's compared to South Park but I think that's just because it's the most similar thing we have to it in the US but there's no way it would ever air unedited over here.

I have a few checklist quandaries. These are silly and just manifestations of my OCD, but I'm in the mood to share.

1 - For these, what if they are complete series sets? Must one watch the entire series? Imagine if The Simpsons was last....

I'm thinking that the first episode of the series would be enough for the former category, and last episode for the latter.

I guess that question would apply to several other things in the checklist as well. If it's a complete or season series that fits the checklist category, must one watch the entire season/series?

2 - I'm leaning towards doing a "pure" checklist, with no repeats; but in my case my "hardest to reach" title also happens to be first alphabetically. It may even qualify for other things, haven't looked at the checklist closely yet. In this case, should I watch the next closest item that qualifies so there are no duplicates?

3 -In going for my first alphabetically title, which also is my hardest to reach, I dug out the bottom box of my collection, the 'A' box, and found the Ace Ventura movie boxset which contains a disc of some animated episodes of the TV series. But then I noticed The Abyss right in front of that. It definitely counts here I guess, because of the heavy CGI use, so which do I watch?

So, in general, should we fill in the checklist using pure animation titles, or do we "have" to use titles that technically count like CGI heavy films?

It all boils down to me trying to "honestly" answer each checklist item. I know the checklists are supposed to be a purely fun sidebar to a purely fun challenge, but I can't help overthinking these things.

In the end, I'm sure I'll largely block it from my mind and use varying "rules" to satisfy the checklist categories, so I'm mainly just curious to see if anyone is as silly as I am.

I have the first volume on VHS but I've never watched it. Maybe it's time to dig it out.

Probably Scooby Doo. I didn't like the series/character when it originally aired and still do not. I don't exactly "loath" the character but he's the least liked of anything I own. I'm sure one of the grand kids will want to watch some before the month is over so I'll watch with them for a checklist item.

I understand, and I *do* appreciate that effort. I was agreeing with davidh777s tongue-in-cheek response implying that it'd take a *very* low price for me to even consider any of the titles you mentioned no matter how good the stories are even in a favorite genre. I'm not a fan of most high-profile Hollywood "sci-fi" films of the past 30 years or so for just the reasons you mention. However, the main problem I have with anime is the artwork, specifically the way people and animals are typically drawn and animated. It just doesn't "click" with me. Keep in mind that I've mainly only seen stuff like Speed Racer, Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z, and a few others so this may not be fair. Because the artwork is so similar on all of these I wrote the whole genre off as I do not care for it. Every time someone has convinced me to try again I see pretty much the same art style so I no longer bother. If I don't like the artwork there's *no* story that'll get me to watch. It doesn't help that the voice acting typically annoys me as well. By way of comparison, I've either not picked up or dropped comics because of artists even if I like the writer. For example, I dropped Ultimate Spiderman when Stuart Immonen took over the art because I dislike his style. This was in spite of the fact I had been picking it up since issue #1 and liked the way Bendis wrote the character. The shop manager knows not to even bother putting a book on which Immonen works in my file, even if I've been picking it up for a long time. I'm pretty much the same with anime. For me to have purchased the anime Metropolis is like I picked up a comic written by Judd Winick (a writer who's work I detest) and penciled by Stuart Immonen. A "hell just froze over" type event.

For my money, it makes sense to count a single item as counting toward the checklist, especially if the list says that length doesn't matter. For my Arthurian entry on the fantasy checklist, I counted the first episode of Camelot (I did watch others). At most, I'd say that watching enough episodes to count as a single item should easily qualify as a check.

I also think that anything that technically qualifies for the list should qualify for the checklist, but you can certainly play with it if you want, like I eliminate duplicate entries whenever I can.

As someone who has never hosted a challenge or completed a checklist, I think I'm speaking from strong authority on this topic.

Thanks David, but now you've just accentuated a whole other can of worms.

My Ace Ventura animated is only two or three episodes, so not enough to count as a whole entry.

And then that brings up the idea of shorts being the "real" answer for various categories, but my shorts not being organized in any sort of way to find them alphabetically or by oldest or anything else.

One way to solve this is for all Challenges to go to "easy numbering" like the Holiday and Academy Award Challenges. 100 shorts or TV shows in a month is still a crazy high number to watch, and we would still have the challenge to reach that goal. Individuals who want a higher challenge can feel free to only watch long films, or to use the silly counting formulas.

Being more inclusive and making the standard Challenge goal of 100 a bit easier would get more participation and make us all healthier.

No one should be upset if they watch 100 epic-length films and someone else "beats" them with 200 five minute shorts. It's not a contest.

I mean, I think you're entitled to watch them however you want and keep track however you want. Personally, I like the 1 Entry ≈ 2 hours, because it gives a simple way of keeping track and ensuring everyone is on a level field in keeping track of their viewings.

The solution to your problem is to watch two or three episodes, count that as whatever you're using it for on the checklist, then watch another episode or two of something else to make it a full entry.

As far as alphabetically, just go by whatever list you have for your collection. I, and I imagine most people who catalog their collections, have things organized by DVD Title, not DVD Contents. So if there's some Disney Short contained in one the Walt Disney Treasures Collection that would technically be the first thing alphabetically in my collection, it really doesn't even matter because it's not that short that was organized alphabetically, but the set it's contained in. Along those same lines, I imagine those Ace Ventura: Animated Series episodes are just a bonus feature on the movie collection. I wouldn't count that as the first thing in my collection, personally. I'd go to the first purely animated release.

The same wouldn't be true for the "oldest/newest" on the checklist, because that isn't really subjective at all, so you might have to dig up a short for that. But with animation, if you have Snow White* and no animated shorts, that's going to be your oldest title. If you have shorts you might have to look a little closer, but chances are it would wind up being something Disney-related anyway.

*There are some older animated feature films, but they're either lost or obscure enough that people don't know about them to have them in a collection.

To avoid the annoying voice acting, make sure you watch them in Japanese with English subs. As for the artwork, I have found a wide range of art and design styles in anime. For a more serious style of artwork, let me first recommend the works of Mamoru Oshii, particularly these movies: PATLABOR (1989), PATLABOR 2 (1993), GHOST IN THE SHELL (1995), GHOST IN THE SHELL 2: INNOCENCE (2004). You should also try Katsuhiro Otomo's films, AKIRA (1988) and STEAMBOY (2004). And those of the late Satoshi Kon: PERFECT BLUE (1997), MILLENNIUM ACTRESS (2001), TOKYO GODFATHERS (2003), and PAPRIKA (2006), although, of these four, only PAPRIKA is sci-fi.


MILLENNIUM ACTRESS:

But why is it even a concern to make it a level field? I'm not singling you out, but I just don't get this competitive counting pathos that comes up in these Challenges. These are not at all a competition, they are personal challenges and communal viewing exercises. 100 of anything is more than enough, why demand it to be 200 total hours? Most people don't watch 100 films in a year, let alone a month. 100 combination films/shows/shorts will seem less insurmountable, and encourage more participation.

And 1 Entry ≈ 2 hours may be simple, but it's certainly not as simple as 1 Item = 1 Entry!
I can see that way of thinking, but see all the other possibilities as well.

And in this specific example, the episodes are on a separate disc, which makes it slightly different in my mind than bonus features on the film disc. I'm weird, I know.
I'd call it subjective because I always thought those checklist items were for something else entirely! I thought it was for the oldest and newest titles that I've personally added to my collection. So those items would be radically different for everyone, and not the same Snow White every year for most of us.

I agree with you Trevor though I see the merit of this in this case because most folks have cartoon shorts where as other movie challenges most don't have movie shorts.
Personally, I think if a DVD such as yours, which only has three episodes of a show, it should count as an entry since it is the entire DVD program that you've watched.
Still, it's not my challenge so I'll play by whatever the rules and/or decisions are. I'm not trying to win or prove anything or make this an unwanted endurance test for myself. Ultimately, I'm just here for the ride and using this challenge as an excuse to enjoy watching some animation.

For me personally, I find it provides for more accurate time-keeping because then I can count up how many entries I have and know exactly how many hours I've watched; a little more difficult to do when each entry is a different length. And that's my goal in these challenges, to watch as much as I can, so it's just easier for me to keep track which is why I prefer it.

There's both Oldest/Newest (Year Made) and Oldest/Newest (Acquired) on the checklist. I was speaking to the former generally being Snow White in everyone's collection or the Disney shorts that came before it.

That makes sense, although I've never thought about keeping track of the time that I spend to watch things.

But isn't that more of a personal thing? For the official rules of these Challenges, simpler and more inclusive the better, imo.

Of course, now you have me thinking about tracking how much I watch time-wise. Curse you Kstublen!
Doh! See, I said I hadn't looked at the checklist closely.....

Assuming The Simpsons was both the first and last

1. First item - You can watch any episode out of the first set.

Last item - You can watch any episode out of the last set.

Since the first season set is the one for the first and it allows any length, you can do anything out of it, even some animated short bonus feature. Same deal with the last item.

2. Next closest item is fine

3. If you had to get to The Abyss by going through a pet detective, then that would make it harder to reach than the pet detective, so you'd watch that.

You'd have to use titles that would count for the challenge. While it might not be the thing you're really looking for, it does help to throw those extra things in that you wouldn't normally pick but may end up enjoying.

The reason some have a "length doesn't matter" qualification is to prevent someone from watching shorts to quickly get through a checklist. In my mind the checklist should be a challenge and it wouldn't be hard to get through the checklist in an afternoon just watching shorts on youtube.

On things with dates, estimating is fine. For my oldest purchase, I'm going back to the first thread in the unwatched piles and checking out what I bought back then. Otherwise it'd just be some wild guessing.

For oldest item, in terms of when it was made, I'm going by the dates in my database. If I happen to remember some bonus feature that's older, then I'll use that, otherwise I wouldn't worry about it. I'm not going to make anyone go through all their special features. Even I have limits.

This challenge, and my other one, doesn't have any goal of 100. In fact, just by watching one thing, that person has already "won".

What we do have is a standard way of measuring performance. This isn't even necessarily to compare how one does against others but can also be a measure of how someone does year after year.

Here's my horrible analogy. When there's a marathon, not everyone is doing it to compete but they still keep track of time and list the order that people completed it. Nobody says you have to be number 1 or get in at a certain time but they still have a standard to keep track of everyone, in this case it's time. Some people are content with just doing it and getting a sense of accomplishment for doing their best, whether or not they even finish it.

By grouping together shorter animations so that they are on par with a movie let's those that want to compare their marathon times, with everyone else. The ones that want to make it a challenge to try and see how close to the top they can make it are doing it on their own and the ones that aren't, can do their own thing and it doesn't interfere with what they're doing.